Change the name gaining support

[CAS4127]

Lawsuit has been filed: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/351219/

But this has to be wrong:

"The lawsuit seeks to stop a public vote on a state law that requires the University of North Dakota to use its Fighting Sioux nickname. Nickname supporters have filed referendum petitions asking for a vote."

I have never seen that angle before. Must be a misprint by . . . gasp . . . the Forum!!

[The Sicatoka]

Lawsuit has been filed: http://www.inforum.c...icle/id/351219/

But this has to be wrong:

"The lawsuit seeks to stop a public vote on a state law that requires the University of North Dakota to use its Fighting Sioux nickname. Nickname supporters have filed referendum petitions asking for a vote."

Could that be a pre-emptive strike against the November ballot initiative (the proposed constitutional amendment) using Article I, Section 18 (contracts clause), by the SBoHE?

[CAS4127]

Could that be a pre-emptive strike against the November ballot initiative (the proposed constitutional amendment) using Article I, Section 18 (contracts clause), by the SBoHE?

I very much doub that-->there is not currently a justiciable controversy as the petitions on that issue have yet to be filed. Things don't work that way!!

[The Sicatoka]

So maybe they're saying if Carlson's Folly and the repeal of it laws are both striken, there's nothing to vote on in June.

[PhillySioux]

I think it is just poor writing and it references one of the practical effects of the Board's goal.

[Hayduke]

So apparently we need Roebuck to speak out to end the contract-leverage conspiracy theories.

Seriously wish he would.

[CAS4127]

So maybe they're saying if Carlson's Folly and the repeal of it laws are both striken, there's nothing to vote on in June.

That could be what the Forum and or even the AG is thinking-->meaning if Carlson's Folly is ruled uncontitutional, the repeal of the repeal won't do anything; BUT, my friend, then they have forgotten about the "3 year waiting period" provision contained in the repeal law. I brought this up a few days ago. If Carlson's Folly is shot down AND the repeal law is voted out (yes vote carries) then UND is free to do what it wants in terms of adopting a new name--eff Carlson and his buddies!! If the repeal vote fails (no votes carry the day) then you still have the 3 year deal in place. Comprehendo???!!

Isn't all of this just fun???!!!!

[mikejm]

Lawsuit has been filed: http://www.inforum.c...icle/id/351219/

But this has to be wrong:

"The lawsuit seeks to stop a public vote on a state law that requires the University of North Dakota to use its Fighting Sioux nickname. Nickname supporters have filed referendum petitions asking for a vote."

I have never seen that angle before. Must be a misprint by . . . gasp . . . the Forum!!

So maybe they're saying if Carlson's Folly and the repeal of it laws are both striken, there's nothing to vote on in June.

I'd say you have it right here, Sic. IMO, if Carlson's law is found to be unconstitutional, the repeal of said law is moot, and the statewide vote reinstate the (unconstitutional) law is illegal.

(And, just to keep things tidy here, the story cited is an AP post, not from The Forum)

[CAS4127]

I'd say you have it right here, Sic. IMO, if Carlson's law is found to be unconstitutional, the repeal of said law is moot, and the statewide vote reinstate the (unconstitutional) law is illegal.

(And, just to keep things tidy here, the story cited is an AP post, not from The Forum)

They aren't trying to repeal Carlson's law, they are seeking to repeal the Repeal law, and that has the has the 3-year waiting period in it, so it is substantive beyond just repealing Carlson's law.

[The Sicatoka]

That's what I've been asking:

If Carlson's Folly is unconstitutional, the repeal would be unconstitutional as if you don't have the power to make, you don't have the power to unmake. And if you have neither make nor unmake power do you even have the power to put a hold on the folks who do have make/unmake power?

[The Sicatoka]

They aren't trying to repeal Carlson's law, they are seeking to repeal the Repeal law, and that has the has the 3-year waiting period in it, so it is substantive beyond just repealing Carlson's law.

Are we sure? I'd like to see the filing and exactly what they are challenging.

[darell1976]

That's what I've been asking:

If Carlson's Folly is unconstitutional, the repeal would be unconstitutional as if you don't have the power to make, you don't have the power to unmake. And if you have neither make nor unmake power do you even have the power to put a hold on the folks who do have make/unmake power?

Do you think if Carlson's law (the state law) was unconsitutional which makes the repeal law worthless...it would take away the 3 year waiting period opening up UND to quickly (IMO less than a year) to find a new name and logo therefore never returning to the Fighting Sioux name and logo?

[CAS4127]

Are we sure? I'd like to see the filing and exactly what they are challenging.

Do you think if Carlson's law (the state law) was unconsitutional which makes the repeal law worthless...it would take away the 3 year waiting period opening up UND to quickly (IMO less than a year) to find a new name and logo therefore never returning to the Fighting Sioux name and logo?

I'm gonna need to read the complete filing--assuming it is complete. It may have just layed the issues out there and asked for the Court to grant original jurisdiction (which means, FYI, it goes directly to the ND Supreme Court rather than first going through the district court level).

[108498]

It is time? No way When I hear that Lennon and Robuck are back then maybe. I would say vivals for name; however, we are loosing a life dedicated coach and rivals. Minn is no were in site for hockey, South Dakot is moving to a new confrence, and knowing NDSU AND UND; its basketball rival is likely to fall. Football not going to happon. Why give in when we have lost so much as a athletic group alread? Give me the sioux coaches and rival games in which we continue to wear sioux jersey and take the name away.Oh and by the way the Hockey Arenea stays as it is!

[petey23]

That's what I've been asking:

If Carlson's Folly is unconstitutional, the repeal would be unconstitutional as if you don't have the power to make, you don't have the power to unmake. And if you have neither make nor unmake power do you even have the power to put a hold on the folks who do have make/unmake power?

Ummm. Can you repeat the part where you said the things about the stuff?

[mikejm]

They aren't trying to repeal Carlson's law, they are seeking to repeal the Repeal law, and that has the has the 3-year waiting period in it, so it is substantive beyond just repealing Carlson's law.

I think we are talking about the same thing here, but I might be confused:

1. Carlson's Law makes Fighting Sioux indelible;

2. CL is repealed after NCAA laughs delegation back to ND, removing Fighting Sioux from state law;

3. "Repeal" law is subject of petition drive and statewide vote, which, if successful would revoke the repeal and again make Fighting Sioux the law of ND. (As of now, the repeal law is simply in limbo; if the statewide vote fails, the repeal stands.)

I would guess the SBoHE has challenged Carlson's Law as being unconstitutional. If that challenge is upheld by the SCOND, the Repeal Law is rendered moot since the law it repealed is no longer law.

[Blackheart]

Only if we can start calling you "Cartman".

The only way to get rid of hippies is to play death metal.... (Slayer to be specific)

[ScottM]

It is time? No way When I hear that Lennon and Robuck are back then maybe. I would say vivals for name; however, we are loosing a life dedicated coach and rivals. Minn is no were in site for hockey, South Dakot is moving to a new confrence, and knowing NDSU AND UND; its basketball rival is likely to fall. Football not going to happon. Why give in when we have lost so much as a athletic group alread? Give me the sioux coaches and rival games in which we continue to wear sioux jersey and take the name away.Oh and by the way the Hockey Arenea stays as it is!

Please tell me you have a "money back guarantee" on your diploma.

[Taz Boy]

Folks, I just can't get too excited about this new campaign idea. Overall, this is a defensive plan, desperate and reactionary.

There's also a meme being pushed that it's the pro-namer's fault and they're a bunch of slack-jawed idiots. Possibly some, but not the vast majority. Do not forget, this predicament was brought on by the NDSBoHE, UND admin, and ND political leadership. The fact that they now have to go into full emergency mode damage control is not something I can enthusiastically root on. Kinda like watching the medical team administer aggressive chemo after three years of misdiagnosis and inaction.

Flame Carlson all you want, but at least he resisted a little when the red rubber ball with the leather strap came out. And, by the way, that law is the people speaking through their representatives. And the signed petition, well that's the people speaking directly. The fact that what more than 2/3rds of the state wants is now damaging to UND is not the fault of those people. It is most certainly NOT the fault of Spirit Lake, who was crapped on by the Board two years ago, and they have every right to be p!ssed. I actually like seeing them still fighting; representing a never give up attitude which is what I always read about on this board.

So, sure, despite all that you can put me in the camp of wanting UND athletics to flourish in D-1. If it takes dropping the name, I'm for that too. But, most certainly you will NOT find me cheering on any political leadership who has been in the drivers seat for the past 5 years now sounding like they have all the answers if only the boneheaded public had a clue and went along with their completely and utterly hosed up plan. A plan which now includes the star studded campaign of current and former coaches, who must feel terrible that it's come to this.

What a colossal failure of unrivaled epicness.

taz

[108498]

There has been alot of talk about rival games disapearing. My question is were are they now? We have Basketball starting up; however, the sioux are not playing minn in the near future south dakota is swiching to a totally different confrence and NDSU/UND football is no where in site. I say Play rival games as the sioux and start back the transition. Any more bumps will only make it harder.Do not say Montana can be our new rival befcause it will not happon. It will take years to get it to the same level as UND/ NDSU, UND/ MINN., AND UND/SOUTH DAKOTA.

Think of all the tradition and fun we had in division two as the Sioux. I can not speak for everyone, but I can say that many of us would rather play division three teams then see the Sioux die. At least make law We are North Dakota with no future mascot. Not in a 4 years and not in 100.

[82SiouxGuy]

There has been alot of talk about rival games disapearing. My question is were are they now? We have Basketball starting up; however, the sioux are not playing minn in the near future south dakota is swiching to a totally different confrence and NDSU/UND football is no where in site. I say Play rival games as the sioux and start back the transition. Any more bumps will only make it harder.Do not say Montana can be our new rival befcause it will not happon. It will take years to get it to the same level as UND/ NDSU, UND/ MINN., AND UND/SOUTH DAKOTA.

Think of all the tradition and fun we had in division two as the Sioux. I can not speak for everyone, but I can say that many of us would rather play division three teams then see the Sioux die. At least make law We are North Dakota with no future mascot. Not in a 4 years and not in 100.

You seem to have no understanding of the process. First, the NCAA sanctions would be in place in Division I, Division 2 or Division 3. Second, NDSU and SDSU moved to Division I several years before UND. That changed any rivalries. And now that USD has joined NDSU and SDSU in their conference, that rivalry is at least on pause. Minnesota is leaving the WCHA. They have a policy that will not let them play a team called the Fighting Sioux if they are not in the same conference, so if UND keeps the name that will eliminate any chance of keeping that rival. And Minnesota has refused to schedule UND in football or basketball in part because of that reason.

Life changes. It will never go back to what it was before. The other Dakota schools are not going back to D2 or D3. UND would suffer even if it did go back down. That is why more and more people, including coaches and past letter winners, are now coming out to say that the nickname needs to be changed. And in a few years a new name will be chosen.

[PhillySioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/229768/

The statement from Sean Johnson (not UNDs Sean Johnson) yesterday is as clear an example of intellectual dishonesty as anything i have seen so far in this cluster.

1). The assertion that there is no proof of Big Sky expulsion at this point is true I suppose. In the same way that if you are a bank teller and a robber says to you, "give me the money or I will shoot you in the face," there is no proof that he will do it until he actually shoots you in the face.

2). The assertion that the legislature was willing to live with the Sanctions. THEY REPEALED THE LAW! Clearly they were absolutely unwilling to do that.

3). For a movement that puts so much weight on the will of the people, one wouldn't think that signatures from 2% of the population would provide them the mandate they are trumpeting.

[MplsBison]

If it makes to a statewide vote and they vote that UND should be the Fighting Sioux -- then what happens?

[ScottM]

http://www.grandfork...icle/id/229768/

The statement from Sean Johnson (not UNDs Sean Johnson) yesterday is as clear an example of intellectual dishonesty as anything i have seen so far in this cluster.

Agreed. Another one with "no skin in the game".

[bigskyvikes]

This is soooooo political! The new way to get things done in this society "scare them into doing what we want them to do"!

When I heard the womens hockey team may get home ice for playoffs and it would have to be on another site because of the name stuff, (which makes no sense, the mens team play home playoffs here?) I thought maybe it is time to move on without the name and let the tribes try and repair this for another later date.

Than they will be off the "hostile and abusive list" which will let them play these schools that now can't play them and the teams when the WCHA break apart to play them also, IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE CALLED THE FIGHTING SIOUX!! Its because of the list!!

But when they want to shut down a state wide vote, as to stop the voting process from doing what the voters want, and make it so the other people get what they want! (Like what already happened to the tribes)! I say no way! This is what caused all this to begin with, not letting the tribes vote! No way! Not me!

Also all this talk of recruiting being down because of the name is BS, IMO! Has there ever been a student/athlete that has said "I want to attend UND but with them being called the Fighting Sioux, I think I will pass"? Doubt it!

Also happon is spelled happen, just saying........