tnt Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 If YOU have a problem with hockey as it stands now (with what the pro-fighting crowd likes to refer to as "stickwork"), maybe YOU should boycott it to effect change. See, that argument works both ways. THINK before you make such a dumb comment next time. By the way, I don't like boxing. But what is even worse than boxing is that UFC/MMA garbage. Now that stuff should be banned. Probably boxing too, but it is the lesser of those two evils. You and PETA seem to know what is best for everyone in society, and soon if there are more bad injuries in hockey I am sure there will be a fringe crowd that will want hitting banned in hockey too.
BSUbeaveralum Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Is there a video of this ? Or what is everyone talking about
siouxkid12 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Do YOU ever watch hockey? If the refs never enforced anything nobody would ever have a power play. Stupid comment, siouxkid12. DaveK, you can't even come up with a valid argument. All you do is answer a question with another question! And then when the argument does not go your way you revert to calling peoples opinions (or people) stupid. Shows how intelligent you really are! Now run along, I think there is some figure skating on TV for you to watch. Unlike you I will answer your question. I do watch hockey and I watch a lot of it, I think having enforcers police themselves has cut down on A LOT of cheap plays. Like I have said before, REFS DO NOTHING TO PROTECT PLAYERS. How many times have I seen a REPEAT OFFENDER cheap shot another player and get away with it (Matt Cooke, Milan Lucic,) or how many times have I seen players run over goalies with no care whatsoever? Remember this is my opinion and I am entitled to it and there is nothing you can say that will change it, you have your opinion (thats fine) and I don't plan on changing you mind. Remember this though, FIGHTING WILL ALWAYS BE APART OF THE NHL!
GFG Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 My opinion is that fighting should be banned in college, like it is. My reasoning is for the sole reason that at this level, especially when your representing a school, you should be developing skills to try and move the player to the next level, not fighting. I don't think players should get a full ride in college just to beat the piss out of people, either. Notice some of the best hockey you'll watch (The Olympics, World Juniors Championships, NHL Playoffs) has very little to no fighting. You will see one once in a while in the NHL Playoffs but it's very rare compared to the regular season. And why is that? The "enforcers" are afraid of hurting their team. I do like a good fight every now and then in the NHL, but the best hockey anyone watches is proof that there is technically no need for it in the sport.
mikejm Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 I don't particularly care for fighting in hockey per se. However, I think a lot of what is wrong with college hockey today — the cheap shots, blatant cross checks, the taunting and jersey-popping, and maybe ever the checking from behind — would go away in a hurry if the fear of being held accountable was present. Ben Blood laying a smack-down on one of these little pukes would put an end to a lot of the shennanigans.
GFG Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 I don't particularly care for fighting in hockey per se. However, I think a lot of what is wrong with college hockey today — the cheap shots, blatant cross checks, the taunting and jersey-popping, and maybe ever the checking from behind — would go away in a hurry if the fear of being held accountable was present. Ben Blood laying a smack-down on one of these little pukes would put an end to a lot of the shennanigans. I don't think it would. It would just cause more retaliations, leading to more injuries and stupid plays. The NHL has way more checking from behind hits and dirty plays than college does and they allow fighting. 1
tnt Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 My opinion is that fighting should be banned in college, like it is. My reasoning is for the sole reason that at this level, especially when your representing a school, you should be developing skills to try and move the player to the next level, not fighting. I don't think players should get a full ride in college just to beat the piss out of people, either. Notice some of the best hockey you'll watch (The Olympics, World Juniors Championships, NHL Playoffs) has very little to no fighting. You will see one once in a while in the NHL Playoffs but it's very rare compared to the regular season. And why is that? The "enforcers" are afraid of hurting their team. I do like a good fight every now and then in the NHL, but the best hockey anyone watches is proof that there is technically no need for it in the sport. If you're going to eliminate fighting even more in college, then you need to find a way to eliminate it in the USHL, which if you are looking to develop players for the next level, it would start with the USHL. If you start removing it all the way around, perhaps Major Juniors will be the answer for a lot more players than are leaving college already. I don't care one way or the other about fighting, but what bothers me is the crowd that tells people what is good and what is not good in entertainment value, especially when it doesn't effect society as a whole. Just as I don't believe people have the right to tell me that I am hostile and abusive because I like a sports logo and nickname. I don't think people are out beating up other people because they see it in a hockey game, no more than it does if you watch boxing. I think the World Juniors cleaned up a bit after the brawl where they had to shut out the lights to try and stop the fighting. College hockey is getting harder and harder to watch because of all of the after the whistle pushing. This weekend against Wisconsin was brutal watching fake tough guys pushing and then somebody pushing back. I guess face-washing and chattering doesn't really do it for me either.
tnt Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think it would. It would just cause more retaliations, leading to more injuries and stupid plays. The NHL has way more checking from behind hits and dirty plays than college does and they allow fighting. I guess I would disagree with that. Don't see near as much of the checking from behind in the NHL. Don't think fighting helps in that regard either, because the USHL has a lot of cfb. I actually think that the bad hits are a bigger instigator between fans than fighting is. Just look at the threads from the last Sioux/gopher series and it was still all about the hits and yapping.
Goon Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 My opinion is that fighting should be banned in college, like it is. My reasoning is for the sole reason that at this level, especially when your representing a school, you should be developing skills to try and move the player to the next level, not fighting. I don't think players should get a full ride in college just to beat the piss out of people, either. Notice some of the best hockey you'll watch (The Olympics, World Juniors Championships, NHL Playoffs) has very little to no fighting. You will see one once in a while in the NHL Playoffs but it's very rare compared to the regular season. And why is that? The "enforcers" are afraid of hurting their team. I do like a good fight every now and then in the NHL, but the best hockey anyone watches is proof that there is technically no need for it in the sport. The reason there aren't as many fights in the playoffs is the instigator rule, which is one of the worst records in the NHL,
Wilbur Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 I'm on the fence with this one....its good and bad for the game. You don't like seeing bench clearing brawls with three or four fights going on in certain games, and at the same time you don't like players taking liberties and putting the health of other players in question. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer in this debate. Everyone has their opinion (lots of good discussion points), but one way or the other everyone isn't going to be happy. Derek Boogaard spent most of his career lurking around making sure players didn't take shots at his teammates, or they'd meet up with him. Now, its a question of whether this fighting could have cost him his life. Like I said....I don't know what the right answer is.
bigskyvikes Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Yes!!! There is a very good reason for that, and it is a little something called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I have the right to say whatever I want to whoever I want, and if they attack me physically I can press charges. It's called assault. I'm supporting something that is protected by law, while you appear to be advocating something that is against the law. This comment right here is the true definition of a PUSSY! "I can say what I want, it's my right!" "But if you touch me afterwards I will sue you" If people face NO consequence for their actions or verbal assault, than when will they ever stop? Or better yet, when will they ever learn? Get real!!! 1
siouxu31 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Your insinuation that "refs do nothing to protect players" is just 100% blatantly false. Once you get past that misconception maybe we can have a discussion, but until then you're just delusional. There isn't a more delusional person on this board than you Dave. Pot meet kettle.
The Sicatoka Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 If I knew the officials were calling an even game, by the book, with no "marble" going pocket to pocket, and no "officiating the scoreboard", and that they saw everything, I'd say fighting should be out of the game. But when I see cheap hacks and whacks behind the play (including some when the official is watching) not get called, or when I see the non-sense non-call that I saw in the final minute of first on Saturday (MacWilliam. Was. Tripped.) I know why tempers flair and why fights happen. The catch is this: If you know, odds are, that you're going to get away with it, why not? Call it the old SEC football philosophy: "if ya ain't cheatin' ya ain't tryin'." And this ultimately leads to a lack of respect for your opponent. Add in advances in gear the full mask requirement and you have a formula where you have a bunch of folks who feel invincible and who don't have a lot of respect for their opponents. What's that lead to? More and worse kinds of contact: high sticks, and checks from behind. That leads to tempers flairing and fights. How would I solve this? First, I'd take an official off the ice. "WHAT!?!?!" you say. I said off the ice, not out of the game. I'd connect him wirelessly to the one remaining on the ice. Both could call penalties (the on-ice would have the whistle), but the off-ice would have a different vantage point. I'd put him in a designated spot in each rink (normally press box). He'd also be responsible for replay reviews. Too often the on-ice officials miss plays that everyone else in the rink can see (see: the MacWilliam trip). This would solve it. It would also free up some space on the ice again. 1
ScottM Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 If I knew the officials were calling an even game, by the book, with no "marble" going pocket to pocket, and no "officiating the scoreboard", and that they saw everything, I'd say fighting should be out of the game. But when I see cheap hacks and whacks behind the play (including some when the official is watching) not get called, or when I see the non-sense non-call that I saw in the final minute of first on Saturday (MacWilliam. Was. Tripped.) I know why tempers flair and why fights happen. If you've watched the HBO series 24/7 where they follow teams playing in the Winter Classic you gain a lot of insight into how the refs think. They yap with the players, talk candidly about calls and non-calls, and in some cases set a stage for a scuffle. You also hear players talking about fighting, and who's going after who on the next shift. I think fighting can have a place in a game where stars can be worth millions to a team and some fourth liner is trying to make a name for himself. But then I read about the various head injuries and their latent manifestations in former players, and it gives me pause.
nodak hockey fanatic Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 i will start by saying i rarely agree with davek... about anything. but i have thought long and hard about the role of fighting in hockey, and i think it is something that needs to be phased out, along with the cheap shot artists who instigate a majority of these events. too often now, especially in the nhl, we are seeing fights as a response to a completely legit and legal hit. that is not right. it is almost as if these enforcers are forcing their hand to prove they are worth a roster spot. also, for any of you who care to do any further research, read some of the recent articles about the after effects of fighting on these "enforcers". Severe brain damage, drug addiction and death. is that price worth it? to some maybe, but not to me. there needs to be stronger penalties for on ice infractions that lead to these fights. and I am not totally opposed to an off ice official (not sure the logistics of that, but I am sure it could be worked out). we shouldn't all have the gary bettman response here, "uh, well people seem to like our game the way it is" and completely skirt the elephant in the room. i prefer brian burke's response, the "thugs" are taking over the game, and until you get rid of the thugs, things won't change for the better. hockey is a hard fought sport, but there should be a level of respect for your fellow competitors, whether that be a two handed chop to the back of his legs, grabbing him out of a handshake line, launching yourself elbow first into their head, or a bare fist to the face. noone likes to see a chay genoway miss an entire season due to a cheapshot, or cam neely retire early because of a cheap shot, or the best player in the game sidney crosby never play again due to head contact (intentional or not), or 3 enforcers in the offseason die/commit suicide due to the after effects of years of fighting. Bottom line is we all love the game of hockey, and me personally would still love it without the fighting and without the cheap shots.
tnt Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 One only needs to look at the fans reaction to fighting in every arena across the country to know why it is still a part of the game. I probably agree that those who fight all the time might have physical problems, but just like smoking, they choose to do it. There are things that cause greater ills in society, yet I don't call for a ban on the internet, smoking, alcohol, television. What about Facebook, people are bullied on there. But that is what parents are for, to explain right from wrong and give their kids a sense of self esteem. As for fighting in college, it happens so infrequently anyway, and it is not staged like it is in the NHL. There will come a time when fighting is no longer part of the game, because of somebody getting cut by a skate or banging their head on the ice, resulting in serious injury. There will also come a time when people want some sort of ban on checking hard. Remember when you could love a good open ice hit? I fear that we are moving to a place where you will be considered barbaric for liking the hitting part of the game, and I am not talking about cheap hits here.
siouxkid12 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7431423/toronto-maple-leafs-brian-burke-calls-decline-fighting-dangerous-trend after reading this article, i fully agree with burke. i can live without fighting in hockey but i also understand there is a place for it and until the NHL and REFS do something to protect players, there will be fighting in the NHL.
GFG Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 i will start by saying i rarely agree with davek... about anything. but i have thought long and hard about the role of fighting in hockey, and i think it is something that needs to be phased out, along with the cheap shot artists who instigate a majority of these events. too often now, especially in the nhl, we are seeing fights as a response to a completely legit and legal hit. that is not right. it is almost as if these enforcers are forcing their hand to prove they are worth a roster spot. also, for any of you who care to do any further research, read some of the recent articles about the after effects of fighting on these "enforcers". Severe brain damage, drug addiction and death. is that price worth it? to some maybe, but not to me. there needs to be stronger penalties for on ice infractions that lead to these fights. and I am not totally opposed to an off ice official (not sure the logistics of that, but I am sure it could be worked out). we shouldn't all have the gary bettman response here, "uh, well people seem to like our game the way it is" and completely skirt the elephant in the room. i prefer brian burke's response, the "thugs" are taking over the game, and until you get rid of the thugs, things won't change for the better. hockey is a hard fought sport, but there should be a level of respect for your fellow competitors, whether that be a two handed chop to the back of his legs, grabbing him out of a handshake line, launching yourself elbow first into their head, or a bare fist to the face. noone likes to see a chay genoway miss an entire season due to a cheapshot, or cam neely retire early because of a cheap shot, or the best player in the game sidney crosby never play again due to head contact (intentional or not), or 3 enforcers in the offseason die/commit suicide due to the after effects of years of fighting. Bottom line is we all love the game of hockey, and me personally would still love it without the fighting and without the cheap shots. THIS! There is nothing that pisses me off more about the NHL than seeing a huge clean hit and seeing that player get jumped by the other 4 players on the ice for that team. There's been at least 10 times this year that i've seen it happen, including a couple of times where the hitter kept trying to play but gets tackled and pounded in the face 15 times. I guess I would disagree with that. Don't see near as much of the checking from behind in the NHL. Don't think fighting helps in that regard either, because the USHL has a lot of cfb. I actually think that the bad hits are a bigger instigator between fans than fighting is. Just look at the threads from the last Sioux/gopher series and it was still all about the hits and yapping. Are you sure? I've seen probably about 20+ in Wild games alone this year. The problem with NHL officiating is that they're not near as strict on calling it as the NCAA is. It's only called a major in the NHL if it's very malicious looking, or if "the player receiving the hit did not put himself in that vulnerable position." Which pisses me off. There's a couple instances where Wild players sustained pretty big injuries this year and nothing major happened to the players who hit them because of that quote i just said.
riders06 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 For all of the people on this board who have such strong opinions on whether or not fighting should be allowed in hockey, I would like to know what percentage has played or been a part of the game at a level other than beer league or watching your mite play hockey. I have been around the game for a number of years as a player, coach, and official and it really bothers me that so many people think they are experts on how to clean up the game by eliminating fighting and cheap shots but yet they have never been in that situation to know what it is. Believe me when I say this, there is room for the game of hockey to improve. I'm not saying that cheap shots should be allowed in the game, but they are going to continually happen. It's a lot harder to patrol the game in the heat of battle than many people think, and that is coming from being both a coach and official. Emotions get high and things happen that are not always seen. I would like for the people have all of the answers to step back and look at the game from a different perspective. There is much more to the game than the fans see and a number of people with such strong opinions don't understand that. End of rant. 2
Blackheart Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 For all of the people on this board who have such strong opinions on whether or not fighting should be allowed in hockey, I would like to know what percentage has played or been a part of the game at a level other than beer league or watching your mite play hockey. I have been around the game for a number of years as a player, coach, and official and it really bothers me that so many people think they are experts on how to clean up the game by eliminating fighting and cheap shots but yet they have never been in that situation to know what it is. Believe me when I say this, there is room for the game of hockey to improve. I'm not saying that cheap shots should be allowed in the game, but they are going to continually happen. It's a lot harder to patrol the game in the heat of battle than many people think, and that is coming from being both a coach and official. Emotions get high and things happen that are not always seen. I would like for the people have all of the answers to step back and look at the game from a different perspective. There is much more to the game than the fans see and a number of people with such strong opinions don't understand that. End of rant. So as a rational person who has more knowledge of the game than the casual fan, what would you propose as some initial steps to improve the quality of the game? Just curious...
siouxkid12 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 For all of the people on this board who have such strong opinions on whether or not fighting should be allowed in hockey, I would like to know what percentage has played or been a part of the game at a level other than beer league or watching your mite play hockey. I have been around the game for a number of years as a player, coach, and official and it really bothers me that so many people think they are experts on how to clean up the game by eliminating fighting and cheap shots but yet they have never been in that situation to know what it is. Believe me when I say this, there is room for the game of hockey to improve. I'm not saying that cheap shots should be allowed in the game, but they are going to continually happen. It's a lot harder to patrol the game in the heat of battle than many people think, and that is coming from being both a coach and official. Emotions get high and things happen that are not always seen. I would like for the people have all of the answers to step back and look at the game from a different perspective. There is much more to the game than the fans see and a number of people with such strong opinions don't understand that. End of rant. not to take anything away from what you have done (kudos to you for coaching and reffing, I have done both and it takes certain people to do it) but at what level did you peak out at? every level of the sport is different and it matters what level you are reffing/coaching at because you are coaching/reffing different aspects of the game. when you are at the top of your level (NHL players/NHL refs), you (as a player) should have a firm grasp on how the sport works and operates. each player knows they can do harm to anyone on a given night and if they can get away with cheap shots and stuff every night they will keep doing it and as long as they allow that to happen there will be fighting in hockey (its part of its culture whether you like it or not). its just like in baseball, if a pitcher hits one of the opposing teams star players you can be damn sure that guys star player will get beaned there next at bat. i don't have any idea on how to solve the fighting issue in hockey (i believe it will always be around) but you can start handing out stricter penalties to both parties involved (the player that injures another player can't play until the other guy is healthy enough to play), heck even make the refs accountable too! no one has the answers to this but Gary Bettmen, the owners and the players union.
Goon Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 If you've watched the HBO series 24/7 where they follow teams playing in the Winter Classic you gain a lot of insight into how the refs think. They yap with the players, talk candidly about calls and non-calls, and in some cases set a stage for a scuffle. You also hear players talking about fighting, and who's going after who on the next shift. I think fighting can have a place in a game where stars can be worth millions to a team and some fourth liner is trying to make a name for himself. But then I read about the various head injuries and their latent manifestations in former players, and it gives me pause. Puck Daddy had an article a while back on who was out with concussion and the majority of them if not about 95% of them were from dirty head shots (violations of Rule 48) or boarding plays.
jdub27 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 We have a little thing called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. There is no FREEDOM OF ASSAULTING SOMEBODY IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. Sorry if you have a problem with that, but that's how it works. Nobody has the right to assault anybody over mere words... ever. There is such thing as verbal assault though Dave. While you have a Freedom of Speech, it only goes so far. No one has a right to verbally assault someone and hide behind Freedom of Speech.
ScottM Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 There is such thing as verbal assault though Dave. While you have a Freedom of Speech, it only goes so far. No one has a right to verbally assault someone and hide behind Freedom of Speech. I wonder how often "Freedom of Speech" has gotten some loudmouth decked in a bar?
siouxkid12 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 I wonder how often "Freedom of Speech" has gotten some loudmouth decked in a bar? haha...ask Dave
Recommended Posts