bincitysioux Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 NDSU, SDSU, Oral Roberts are basketball powerhouses of the SL, we are not a powerhouse in the Big Sky unless the women's teams (volleyball and bb) repeat. The men have no BSC titles (regular or tournament) we are the same as Omaha..oh wait we lost to them in the CIT that's one more win for them than us in that tournament. Saying the BSC is like the Big 10 and the SL is like the MAC is funny! Are you implying that North Dakota would be better off in the Summit because it would be easier to win titles than it is in the Big Sky? Would you also prefer that that the hockey team join the new WCHA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 With my kids getting older it's easier to get to a game. I used to attend 2-3 football games and 1-2 hockey games, but with my kids older I can take them on road trips that I can get to and back to Fargo in a day. If you wanna see the Sioux play often, your best bet for a day trip is Grand Forks. I'm far more concerned about how to get fans to home games first, than I am about how to get them to travel to road games no matter how far or close they are. As someone who has attended football games at NCC, Great West, and Big Sky venues, it seems the number of Sioux fans is usually about the same where ever I go regardless of the distance, near or far. So, honestly, I think the "ease of travel" argument is a hollow one. Sioux fans travel in force for hockey, not so much for other sports. Which is a reason I am against a pre-determined site for the Big Sky Basketball Tournament. Probably had a couple hundred Sioux fans at Weber this year for the tourney. Sure, you'd maybe get a couple hundred more at a neutral site. But you'll get 3,000 strong when it is held at the Sioux Center. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 It is a good thing to be different than the run-of-the-mill Dakota school... Being in the Big Sky sets UND apart, in a good way. It is one of the premier non-BCS conferences. If you are honest with yourself, what does the Summit have that the Big Sky doesn't? NDSU (a former rival)? Denver (a hockey rival)? The Big Sky is stable and well respected outside of the region. And, to paraphrase bincity, what is the true appeal of going to Brookings, Vermillion, Fort Wayne, Youngstown, et al over Bozeman, Missoula, Flagstaff or even Greeley? It just won't make a difference for traveling Sioux fans. With the UND alumni base being located where it is, the Big Sky is probably much better. As a fan, the only difference I see is that UND and NDSU don't play in the same conference. That is not a bad distinction. Not being in the same conference as SDSU and USD is not that big of a deal. Didn't Coach Schweigert say he was surprised by the appeal of the Big Sky footprint and travel as a positive recruiting tool? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersioux Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Here's what the summit league/Mvc offers 1) largest attended fb game in 2013 (SDSU) 2) largest attended Mbb game in 2013 (NDSU) There is nothing wrong with the Big Sky but games against the other Dakota schools happening more often in grand forks would bring bigger crowds and in turn more energy to the fan base (plus additional revenue). Thing of it this way...(hypothetically speaking of course). If und was invited to reunite with MN and WI in the Big ten hockey conference...would you say being reunited with those former rivals wouldn't do anything for the program? Everyone is entitled to their opinion...mine is that a mvc/summit invitation would provide a boost of energy to the fan base. I would be more excited at future schedules than if we remained in the big sky. My opinion of course. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Here's what the summit league/Mvc offers 1) largest attended fb game in 2013 (SDSU) 2) largest attended Mbb game in 2013 (NDSU) There is nothing wrong with the Big Sky but games against the other Dakota schools happening more often in grand forks would bring bigger crowds and in turn more energy to the fan base (plus additional revenue). And in 2008 the highest attended games were Texas A&M-Kingsville and Western Washington, so perhaps UND should look at either the Lonestar or GPAC for membership. Thing of it this way...(hypothetically speaking of course). If und was invited to reunite with MN and WI in the Big ten hockey conference...would you say being reunited with those former rivals wouldn't do anything for the program? Hardly an apples to apples comparison. I'd say when using college hockey as an example in this comparison, you'd have to reverse the situations. Big Ten Hockey Conference = Big Sky Conference. NCHC = Summit/MVFC. Also, we still play all the "Dakota 3" that some people are so infatuated with just about every year in just about every sport. A move to the Summit would have the net effect of trading future contests with Montana, Montana St., and Weber St. for games against the likes IPFW, IUPUI, and Western Illinois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd1sufan Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 How often do you get up to Grand Forks for a game? A Big Sky school leaving for the Summit would be like a Big Ten school leaving for the MAC. Was the MAC 12 spots higher than the Big Ten in Men's Basketball RPI this year? I must have missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Was the MAC 12 spots higher than the Big Ten in Men's Basketball RPI this year? I must have missed that. And the Metro Atlantic has a higher Men's Basketball RPI than the Summit. Do you think your favorite school should make a move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If you wanna see the Sioux play often, your best bet for a day trip is Grand Forks. I'm far more concerned about how to get fans to home games first, than I am about how to get them to travel to road games no matter how far or close they are. As someone who has attended football games at NCC, Great West, and Big Sky venues, it seems the number of Sioux fans is usually about the same where ever I go regardless of the distance, near or far. So, honestly, I think the "ease of travel" argument is a hollow one. Sioux fans travel in force for hockey, not so much for other sports. Which is a reason I am against a pre-determined site for the Big Sky Basketball Tournament. Probably had a couple hundred Sioux fans at Weber this year for the tourney. Sure, you'd maybe get a couple hundred more at a neutral site. But you'll get 3,000 strong when it is held at the Sioux Center. Both conferences have unattractive teams to fans and teams that are attractive. The Dakota 3 would equal Weber St, UM and MSU as attractive then you have Idaho St, Sac St, SUU would equal the Indy teams and WIU as unattractive to fans unless the title was on the line. I think the MVFC equals the BSC as far as toughness so switching to that I would be more in favor of than the SL, I just wouldn't want to join the SL then have SDSU, Omaha and DU join the MVC, the Indy schools bail out east leaving the SL on life support again. That I why I am so glad the BSC is extremely stable right now especially with Idaho rejoining. If the Dakota 3 even DU with them joined the BSC it would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Was the MAC 12 spots higher than the Big Ten in Men's Basketball RPI this year? I must have missed that. #buttrpi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 And the Metro Atlantic has a higher Men's Basketball RPI than the Summit. Do you think your favorite school should make a move? not exactly a reasonable comparison. We're in the summit footprint. NDSU is not in the Metro Atlantic footprint. Our teams and our opponents often fly out of or in to a summit league town, often through another one. Two of the programs main rivals (NDSU and Denver) are in the conference, as are three of our primary historical opponents. (UNO, USD, and SDSU) We recruit summit and mvfc league territories, places where we almost never play games. You don't think that hurts us in Illinois or southern Wisconsin? the only downside to the summit/mvfc is the instability issue, which in any case would be essentially solved by UND joining. the valley can afford to lose ysu and msu, that after all is how many teams it had before wku left. I think EIU and Murray state would both jump at an a mvc/mfvc invite. We would be trading out UM, MSU, UNC, and EWU/Weber for NDSU, Denver, USD, SDSU, and UNO. You know, those schools that we've been playing sports with for about a century. ORU may be a repulsive clown college but they play good ball and are invested in their program, at least monetarily, maybe not so much with the fans. UMKC, WIU, IPFW and IUPUI are throwaways, but so are suu, idaho, ewu bb and weber fb, psu, nau and sac state. #buttrpi you really undermine the argument that UND is a better university when you criticize them for using math. If the big sky really is a better conference, you would think someone here would be able to find some sort of robust statistical measure or qualified, unbiased opinion in favor of the big sky being better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 you really undermine the argument that UND is a better university when you criticize them for using math. If the big sky really is a better conference, you would think someone here would be able to find some sort of robust statistical measure or qualified, unbiased opinion in favor of the big sky being better. You need to do a little research on the limitations of the RPI and how conferences can exploit it. Mid Level conferences with a large number of conference games are at a disadvantage compared to smaller conferences with less games conference games. That is why many simply state #buttrpi and this is why many mid major schools with very high RPIs do not get at large bids. I personally think head to head is the best measure - +18 works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 you really undermine the argument that UND is a better university when you criticize them for using math. If the big sky really is a better conference, you would think someone here would be able to find some sort of robust statistical measure or qualified, unbiased opinion in favor of the big sky being better. I gotta ask: why do you go to UND? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 not exactly a reasonable comparison. We're in the summit footprint. NDSU is not in the Metro Atlantic footprint. Our teams and our opponents often fly out of or in to a summit league town, often through another one. Two of the programs main rivals (NDSU and Denver) are in the conference, as are three of our primary historical opponents. (UNO, USD, and SDSU) We recruit summit and mvfc league territories, places where we almost never play games. You don't think that hurts us in Illinois or southern Wisconsin? the only downside to the summit/mvfc is the instability issue, which in any case would be essentially solved by UND joining. the valley can afford to lose ysu and msu, that after all is how many teams it had before wku left. I think EIU and Murray state would both jump at an a mvc/mfvc invite. We would be trading out UM, MSU, UNC, and EWU/Weber for NDSU, Denver, USD, SDSU, and UNO. You know, those schools that we've been playing sports with for about a century. ORU may be a repulsive clown college but they play good ball and are invested in their program, at least monetarily, maybe not so much with the fans. UMKC, WIU, IPFW and IUPUI are throwaways, but so are suu, idaho, ewu bb and weber fb, psu, nau and sac state. you really undermine the argument that UND is a better university when you criticize them for using math. If the big sky really is a better conference, you would think someone here would be able to find some sort of robust statistical measure or qualified, unbiased opinion in favor of the big sky being better. Ha, Ha . . . that repulsive clown college (ORU) would kick your ass in BB, destroy you in Baseball (all of us), and run you over and take your lunch money in track and field. They are paying their men's BB coach just under a 1/2 million. UMKC is not in the Summit. Also, the time is coming soon where NDSU, SDSU, USD, Omaha, and Denver will not take a offer the MVC over the Summit. Speaking of throw away . . . Evansville, Drake, Bradley, Loyola. If Wichita and MO State leave the valley, the Summit is a better alternative than the MVC for the Dakotas, for sure. A beautiful 12,000 seat arena for the tournament next year is also a big selling point for the Summit. Football combined with MVC/Summit is great, and keeping these scholarship FB groups together is important. Would it be great to play BB with UNI, IL State, MO State, IN State, S IL . . . yes, but who cares about the rest. Staying in the Summit to build this league is becoming a priority for a growing group in the Summit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Ha, Ha . . . that repulsive clown college (ORU) would kick your ass in BB, destroy you in Baseball (all of us), and run you over and take your lunch money in track and field. They are paying their men's BB coach just under a 1/2 million. UMKC is not in the Summit. Also, the time is coming soon where NDSU, SDSU, USD, Omaha, and Denver will not take a offer the MVC over the Summit. Speaking of throw away . . . Evansville, Drake, Bradley, Loyola. If Wichita and MO State leave the valley, the Summit is a better alternative than the MVC for the Dakotas, for sure. A beautiful 12,000 seat arena for the tournament next year is also a big selling point for the Summit. Football combined with MVC/Summit is great, and keeping these scholarship FB groups together is important. Would it be great to play BB with UNI, IL State, MO State, IN State, S IL . . . yes, but who cares about the rest. Staying in the Summit to build this league is becoming a priority for a growing group in the Summit. You realize that ORU was average at best at basketball this year, right? 17-16 is average. UND fans know this all too well. Also, if you say "kick your ass" to him you are more than likely about NDSU, he is not a UND fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Ha, Ha . . . that repulsive clown college (ORU) would kick your ass in BB, destroy you in Baseball (all of us), and run you over and take your lunch money in track and field. They are paying their men's BB coach just under a 1/2 million. UMKC is not in the Summit. Also, the time is coming soon where NDSU, SDSU, USD, Omaha, and Denver will not take a offer the MVC over the Summit. Speaking of throw away . . . Evansville, Drake, Bradley, Loyola. If Wichita and MO State leave the valley, the Summit is a better alternative than the MVC for the Dakotas, for sure. A beautiful 12,000 seat arena for the tournament next year is also a big selling point for the Summit. Football combined with MVC/Summit is great, and keeping these scholarship FB groups together is important. Would it be great to play BB with UNI, IL State, MO State, IN State, S IL . . . yes, but who cares about the rest. Staying in the Summit to build this league is becoming a priority for a growing group in the Summit. Any chance of a SL/MVC merge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 You need to do a little research on the limitations of the RPI and how conferences can exploit it. Mid Level conferences with a large number of conference games are at a disadvantage compared to smaller conferences with less games conference games. That is why many simply state #buttrpi and this is why many mid major schools with very high RPIs do not get at large bids. I personally think head to head is the best measure - +18 works for me. RPI is a terrible metric, i agree. Sagarin, pomeroy, etc are pretty good. Head to head UND lost to SUU. UND was a mile better than SUU. Head to head means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I gotta ask: why do you go to UND? I don't see what that has to do with what you quoted, but I go to UND because my department is good, I get instate tuition, I went here before so it was easier to restart and I still knew a ton of people. I don't know why that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Also, the time is coming soon where NDSU, SDSU, USD, Omaha, and Denver will not take a offer the MVC over the Summit. Speaking of throw away . . . Evansville, Drake, Bradley, Loyola. If Wichita and MO State leave the valley, the Summit is a better alternative than the MVC for the Dakotas, for sure. A beautiful 12,000 seat arena for the tournament next year is also a big selling point for the Summit. Football combined with MVC/Summit is great, and keeping these scholarship FB groups together is important. Would it be great to play BB with UNI, IL State, MO State, IN State, S IL . . . yes, but who cares about the rest. Staying in the Summit to build this league is becoming a priority for a growing group in the Summit. What year is that in your fantasy? The MVC gets like $5 mill a year from Bball and the Summit gets about $1.2 mill. The Wichita State run has four more years of money left. The Summit has to get Sweet 16 teams for multiple years in a row to even be in the same league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 What year is that in your fantasy? The MVC gets like $5 mill a year from Bball and the Summit gets about $1.2 mill. The Wichita State run has four more years of money left. The Summit has to get Sweet 16 teams for multiple years in a row to even be in the same league. Wichita right now is head and shoulders above anyone in the MVC/SL. The MVC is certainly superior right now due to the money from Creighton and Witchita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 RPI is a terrible metric, i agree. Sagarin, pomeroy, etc are pretty good. Head to head UND lost to SUU. UND was a mile better than SUU. Head to head means nothing. Head to Head means everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 A Big Sky school leaving for the Summit would be like a Big Ten school leaving for the MAC. Well two Big Sky assistants just left their jobs to work in beautiful Vermilion. Maybe you have this backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Mo St's President says he hasn't been in contact with the Sun Belt. JMU turned the Sun Belt down. Guess bisonville has to drop about fantasies about leaving the Slummit. Liberty may get a call from the Sun Belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Mo St's President says he hasn't been in contact with the Sun Belt. JMU turned the Sun Belt down. Guess bisonville has to drop about fantasies about leaving the Slummit. Liberty may get a call from the Sun Belt. When someone says they haven't been in contact, usually they have been in contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jeremy-fowler/24562275/sun-belt-umass-in-discussions-about-membership Could the Sun Belt look to the Northeast for its 12th member? Massachusetts called the Sun Belt and both sides have had a "very preliminary" discussion about joining forces, commissioner Karl Benson told CBSSports.com. UMass became available as a football-only member after it became clear in March that the Minutemen would not fulfill all-sports-member status required of the Mid-American Conference, its old home. UMass will part ways with the MAC in 2015. The Sun Belt has been looking to fill its final spot by June 1 and has had discussions with several FCS-level schools, including Liberty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 http://www.cbssports...bout-membership The whole realignment of college football has made me lose some interest in watching...college basketball is bad too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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