Conference Realignments - Take 2

[SiouxVolley]

44 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

What would they do with FB?

The Beaver County Times (Pa) said they have talked about the MVFC.  The Big South could work too, as they need teams and Monmouth (NJ) is there for fb.

[FargoBison]

I still think the Horizon adds 1, you don't go to 12 unless you are making a push to strengthen the league and everything I've seen shows them looking at a bunch of mediocre schools. 

[SiouxVolley]

50 minutes ago, FargoBison said:

I still think the Horizon adds 1, you don't go to 12 unless you are making a push to strengthen the league and everything I've seen shows them looking at a bunch of mediocre schools. 

At least 20 in conference games is popular now to bring up their SOS, so mid major commissioners are pushing more for at least 12 teams.  The Horizon will probably only add one right away and then two next year.  The MVC is planning the same.

If on the odd chance that the IP's don't get picked, the Atlantic Sun would offer them, as it needs schools too.

[UNDBIZ]

9 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

At least 20 in conference games is popular now to bring up their SOS, so mid major commissioners are pushing more for at least 12 teams.  The Horizon will probably only add one right away and then two next year.  The MVC is planning the same.

If on the odd chance that the IP's don't get picked, the Atlantic Sun would offer them, as it needs schools too.

How does adding more mediocre/bad conference games bring up the SOS?

[SWSiouxMN]

10 hours ago, FargoBison said:

I still think the Horizon adds 1, you don't go to 12 unless you are making a push to strengthen the league and everything I've seen shows them looking at a bunch of mediocre schools. 

Dont they have a baseball issue to fix as well?

[The Sicatoka]

10 hours ago, FargoBison said:

I still think the Horizon adds 1, you don't go to 12 unless you are making a push to strengthen the league ... 

... or you know you're going to keep getting plucked and want to make sure you keep extra margin from the minimums just in case you have to dig really, really deep (say the time it takes for a DII transition) for backfill.  

[jacksfan29]

12 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

At least 20 in conference games is popular now to bring up their SOS, so mid major commissioners are pushing more for at least 12 teams.  The Horizon will probably only add one right away and then two next year.  The MVC is planning the same.

If on the odd chance that the IP's don't get picked, the Atlantic Sun would offer them, as it needs schools too.

You do know that in mid-major leagues, once conference play starts most schools RPI begins falling? You strengthen your SOS by scheduling quality out of conference opponents. Twenty game schedules only work for leagues with high RPI numbers top to bottom. The MVC and HL are not those leagues.

The HL will add one. They may add 2 next year but only if they raid the OVC for one, and get the second as a D2 move up (Southern Indiana).

The MVC will likely not add 2 next year, the will among the majority of the schools is to stay at 10 unless a big name (SLU, Belmont) decides to join.

Neither the MVC or HL can find schools to strengthen their leagues right now. Both are ham strung by geography and a lack of funds. The HL will look east and south and may take a look at a Purdue school. The MVC hope, HOPE they can get someone like SLU or Belmont to bite. They won't. The MVC still has not figured out they just aren't the draw they once were. Adding lower level schools for the sake of adding is a mistake which will doom your league to also ran status for decades.

[jacksfan29]

16 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

The Beaver County Times (Pa) said they have talked about the MVFC.  The Big South could work too, as they need teams and Monmouth (NJ) is there for fb.

No, the article stated that maybe the MVFC was possible because YSU were close. It was the writer's opinion. RMU have ZERO chance of getting into the MVFC.

[zonadub]

47 minutes ago, jacksfan29 said:

You do know that in mid-major leagues, once conference play starts most schools RPI begins falling? You strengthen your SOS by scheduling quality out of conference opponents. Twenty game schedules only work for leagues with high RPI numbers top to bottom. The MVC and HL are not those leagues.

The HL will add one. They may add 2 next year but only if they raid the OVC for one, and get the second as a D2 move up (Southern Indiana).

The MVC will likely not add 2 next year, the will among the majority of the schools is to stay at 10 unless a big name (SLU, Belmont) decides to join.

Neither the MVC or HL can find schools to strengthen their leagues right now. Both are ham strung by geography and a lack of funds. The HL will look east and south and may take a look at a Purdue school. The MVC hope, HOPE they can get someone like SLU or Belmont to bite. They won't. The MVC still has not figured out they just aren't the draw they once were. Adding lower level schools for the sake of adding is a mistake which will doom your league to also ran status for decades.

MVC is looking more and more like a one bid conference. Replacing Creighton with Loyola and Wichita with Valpo will not make their profile better and intraconference games will not help them get a second bid. Horizon is in the same boat.

The possibility of the Summit getting two bids may be as good as either of those two at this point. Will depend on pre-conference scheduling more than anything.

[SiouxVolley]

5 hours ago, jacksfan29 said:

You do know that in mid-major leagues, once conference play starts most schools RPI begins falling? You strengthen your SOS by scheduling quality out of conference opponents. Twenty game schedules only work for leagues with high RPI numbers top to bottom. The MVC and HL are not those leagues.

The HL will add one. They may add 2 next year but only if they raid the OVC for one, and get the second as a D2 move up (Southern Indiana).

The MVC will likely not add 2 next year, the will among the majority of the schools is to stay at 10 unless a big name (SLU, Belmont) decides to join.

Neither the MVC or HL can find schools to strengthen their leagues right now. Both are ham strung by geography and a lack of funds. The HL will look east and south and may take a look at a Purdue school. The MVC hope, HOPE they can get someone like SLU or Belmont to bite. They won't. The MVC still has not figured out they just aren't the draw they once were. Adding lower level schools for the sake of adding is a mistake which will doom your league to also ran status for decades.

Of course.  A league has to limit games against sub-200 teams, which takes money.  The A10 has 14 teams, and only has two sub 200 teams, in Duquense and St Louis.  VCU was rated 22 RPI and others such as URI and DaytoN were high too.  That is the model that the Horizon and the MVC are looking at.  If those leagues expand, it can afford to have one or two sub-200 RPI teams.  But the important thing is to be able to afford tough non conference schedules.  Having more teams were with more conference games will make OOC games more important but less expensive.

[SIOUXFAN97]

i know it's easier said than done but southern indiana uni will be a pretty nice "get" for the horizen or ovc or someone else when they get a nice bball arena...up and coming school that would compete directly with evansville of the now declining mvc... (edit...it looks like the ford center is city owned and they could play there too just like the purple aces do)

 

kinda like northern kentucky uni was.

[SiouxVolley]

 

2 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

i know it's easier said than done but southern indiana uni will be a pretty nice "get" for the horizen or ovc or someone else when they get a nice bball arena...up and coming school that would compete directly with evansville of the now declining mvc... (edit...it looks like the ford center is city owned and they could play there too just like the purple aces do)

 

kinda like northern kentucky uni was.

Only a few league will stoop down a take DII moveups.  The Big West rejected UCSD, which is one of the premiere academic schools in the world.

Southern Indiana would do go to partner with IUPUI or IPFW, whichever is left, and sell themselves as travel partners to the Atlantic Sun or the OVC.  Agree that S Indiana may have a bright future.

[jacksfan29]

15 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

 

Only a few league will stoop down a take DII moveups.  The Big West rejected UCSD, which is one of the premiere academic schools in the world.

Southern Indiana would do go to partner with IUPUI or IPFW, whichever is left, and sell themselves as travel partners to the Atlantic Sun or the OVC.  Agree that S Indiana may have a bright future.

The Horizon took NKU, a  D2 startup. They will have no problem accepting Southern Indiana. 

[SiouxVolley]

4 hours ago, jacksfan29 said:

The Horizon took NKU, a  D2 startup. They will have no problem accepting Southern Indiana. 

No they didnt.  NKU wanted the Horizon, but accepted the A Sun's invite, and then the Horizon took then late in their transition.  NKU probably has the best outlook with their nice arena as any Horizon school.  The Cincinnati-Louisville-Evansville Ohio River region is like a powerhouse for bb.

[SiouxVolley]

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/may/12/ewu-initiates-process-to-examine-fundraising-prosp/

So why is EWU so concerned about keeping up with the Montanas in the facilities race if everything will stay status quo, as numerous trolls and posters have said?  But in the very slight chance that those schools are moving to the Slummit and FBS, then is a very big deal for EWU.  EWU has been fundraising for some time for an alternative stadium or bigger Roos, but just hasn't made headway.

 

[nodak651]

26 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/may/12/ewu-initiates-process-to-examine-fundraising-prosp/

So why is EWU so concerned about keeping up with the Montanas in the facilities race if everything will stay status quo, as numerous trolls and posters have said?  But in the very slight chance that those schools are moving to the Slummit and FBS, then is a very big deal for EWU.  EWU has been fundraising for some time for an alternative stadium or bigger Roos, but just hasn't made headway.

 

Everyone is always fundraising, and their stadium sucks.  

[SiouxVolley]

1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

Everyone is always fundraising, and their stadium sucks.  

No one takes 125 k from what they have already raised to expedite fundraising.  That is a risk and a waste if it doesn't work.  EWU believes the situation is so urgent that they outsourced for big bucks some one else.  No one here has given a satisfactory explanation if my theory is wrong.

Why can't EWU just pretend that things will always stay as there are?  A.  Because they know it won't.

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said:

No one takes 125 k from what they have already raised to expedite fundraising.  That is a risk and a waste if it doesn't work.  EWU believes the situation is so urgent that they outsourced for big bucks some one else.  No one here has given a satisfactory explanation if my theory is wrong.

Why can't EWU just pretend that things will always stay as there are?  A.  Because they know it won't.

I just did.  Their facilities lag behind what others in their CURRENT conference already have.  

Quote

“How are we going to compete with Idaho with facilities like this?” asked one coach, pointing to the high-schoolish visiting-side bleachers.  Five years ago, Eastern announced plans for the Gateway Project, a multi-use facility that failed to get off the ground for lack of donors.  Four years later, Cullinan gave athletic director Bill Chaves an open-ended directive to “explore options” regarding improvements to Roos Field.

They failed with their last fundraising effort, so they are going to set sights a little bit lower and do what they can to improve their high school football field.  

Your obsession with trying to predict the next FBS moves has really hampered any semblance of reason that you may have ever had.

They are enlisting the help of the Phoenix Philanthropy Group because they have already shown that they have little ability to fund raise or plan without help.

[southpaw]

4 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I just did.  Their facilities lag behind what others in their CURRENT conference already have.  

They failed with their last fundraising effort, so they are going to set sights a little bit lower and do what they can to improve their high school football field.  

Your obsession with trying to predict the next FBS moves has really hampered any semblance of reason that you may have ever had.

They are enlisting the help of the Phoenix Philanthropy Group because they have already shown that they have little ability to fund raise or plan without help. 

No, no, no. Sioux Volley clearly knows that any fundraising must be for a future conference. Why did Ralph build a new arena?  For the NCHC. Why did GF build the Alerus?  Because it knew about FBS before it knew about the Summit before it knew about the BigSky before it knew anyone was going  D1.  Why did NDSU take a dozen years to finish the BSA upgrade?  Because that facility would have been a waste in the Summit... But in a new conference it would be top notch!!

[SiouxVolley]

20 hours ago, southpaw said:

No, no, no. Sioux Volley clearly knows that any fundraising must be for a future conference. Why did Ralph build a new arena?  For the NCHC. Why did GF build the Alerus?  Because it knew about FBS before it knew about the Summit before it knew about the BigSky before it knew anyone was going  D1.  Why did NDSU take a dozen years to finish the BSA upgrade?  Because that facility would have been a waste in the Summit... But in a new conference it would be top notch!!

Engelstad said himself that building a new arena would ensure the UND would keep pace with the Pig Ten schools like Minnie and Sconnie.  A big failure again from you.

[SiouxVolley]

20 hours ago, nodak651 said:

I just did.  Their facilities lag behind what others in their CURRENT conference already have.  

They failed with their last fundraising effort, so they are going to set sights a little bit lower and do what they can to improve their high school football field.  

Your obsession with trying to predict the next FBS moves has really hampered any semblance of reason that you may have ever had.

They are enlisting the help of the Phoenix Philanthropy Group because they have already shown that they have little ability to fund raise or plan without help.

The Big Sky doesn't have minimum requirements or EWU would be kicked out.

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

The Big Sky doesn't have minimum requirements or EWU would be kicked out.

Did you quote the wrong person?  That has nothing to do with what I said.  

[Herd]

On 5/17/2017 at 9:44 PM, SiouxVolley said:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/may/12/ewu-initiates-process-to-examine-fundraising-prosp/

So why is EWU so concerned about keeping up with the Montanas in the facilities race if everything will stay status quo, as numerous trolls and posters have said?  But in the very slight chance that those schools are moving to the Slummit and FBS, then is a very big deal for EWU.  EWU has been fundraising for some time for an alternative stadium or bigger Roos, but just hasn't made headway.

 

Why do you continue to use Summit and FBS in the same sentence?  If a move up would occur for football for NDSU, it would involve some new term, not FBS, and it would be something other than the Summit.  You are lost in the Forrest.

[southpaw]

15 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Engelstad said himself that building a new arena would ensure the UND would keep pace with the Pig Ten schools like Minnie and Sconnie.  A big failure again from you.

So Ralph built the arena so they could compete with the teams that were in their conference?  You know, just like EWU is trying to do.

[The Sicatoka]

4 minutes ago, southpaw said:

So Ralph built the arena so they could compete with the teams that were in their conference?  You know, just like EWU is trying to do.

Second hand (through Ralph's relatives) so take it for what it's worth:

Ralph and Strinden (et al) saw B1G Hockey coming even back in 2000-ish. They knew the only way to keep up, or complete, or maybe get an affiliate sniff if they were to ever consider that (and remember the B1G had never done affiliates back in that era), was to have a competitive arena to 'ucci or the 'ohl.