Hayduke Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 If they file an injunction, the ND legislature might back away while legal action goes on for the next 3 years, thus cementing your sanctions and Independent afficilation with no conference. Yeah, what a great thing for UND. You didn't see the ND Law thing as anything but good until it smacked you in the face. Now this, you simply can't get out of your own way. This board must represent a 1% minority opinion, beacuase I simply can't believe that anyone with any sense would see this as positive. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? "beacuase" I said, "As long as UND/SBOHE/ND State Legislators go along with the plan to retire the name, what can the NCAA/Big Sky do to UND?" Too bad about your afficilation with the Buffaloes, Bison, or whatever they are. Quote
Goon Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Since everyone seemed to question who was behind the 8 students who filed a suit the same question here is who are the outside sources of funding? Just like the supporters of the 8 students that filed the lawsuit said in the past, "it's not important." Quote
Bison Dan Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Do you have a reading comprehension problem? "beacuase" I said, "As long as UND/SBOHE/ND State Legislators go along with the plan to retire the name, what can the NCAA/Big Sky do to UND?" Too bad about your afficilation with the Buffaloes, Bison, or whatever they are. Herd said that if the legislators because of the the law suit don't retire the name? You said as long as they do. I think it's you that has the comprehension problem. Fact is if this holds up the legislators this November I think the letter from the BSC is probably going to be written. Quote
Hayduke Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Herd said that if the legislators because of the the law suit don't retire the name? You said as long as they do. I think it's you that has the comprehension problem. Fact is if this holds up the legislators this November I think the letter from the BSC is probably going to be written. I read this a few times and came to this conclusion It must be difficult typing something between shoveling piles of manure. Just what the hell does this mean, "Herd said that if the legislators because of the law suit don't retire the name?" I really don't have time to waste trying to comprehend your gibberish. The fact is, this lawsuit isn't going to go anywhere unless it gets filed in an US District Court. Even then, it probably doesn't have a prayer. As long as the parties that agreed to continue the retirement process with the NCAA continue that process, the NCAA and the BSC won't and can't do a thing to them. But, this action by the Spirit Lake Tribe can potentially embarrass the NCAA, which is the fun thing about it and what makes me enjoy it very, very much. I have to go now. Here, to help you I'll write it like this, "Me go work now?" Quote
darell1976 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I say continue the retirement process. I am sorry to say it, but the NCAA said no and since this isn't a slam dunk way of saving the name then I say why jepordize our chance at the Big Sky and scheduling opponents plus jepordize our transition. The NCAA could get tired of this and tack on a few more years as a penalty. Its their club they make the rules, and as sh-tty as it is if they don't like you they will hurt you. Quote
IrishSiouxFan Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I say continue the retirement process. I am sorry to say it, but the NCAA said no and since this isn't a slam dunk way of saving the name then I say why jepordize our chance at the Big Sky and scheduling opponents plus jepordize our transition. The NCAA could get tired of this and tack on a few more years as a penalty. Its their club they make the rules, and as sh-tty as it is if they don't like you they will hurt you. Actually, I think the last thing the Big Sky wants to do is not admit UND. The SEC just voted 10-1 to let A&M in, realignment Armageddon has just begun. I would be shocked if we found ourselves in a league with Montana and Montana State still in it, in fact we might want to seriously reconsider the travel costs of being a conference that won't help our ticket sales. In my opinion Spirit Lake's efforts would be best served by sitting down with the leaders of Standing Rock and trying to find a compromise that everyone can live with, let the tribes hash it out and hopefully bring their terms and conditions to the university. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 In my opinion Spirit Lake's efforts would be best served by sitting down with the leaders of Standing Rock and trying to find a compromise that everyone can live with, let the tribes hash it out and hopefully bring their terms and conditions to the university. Too bad it's not 2006 however. Quote
IrishSiouxFan Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Too bad it's not 2006 however. Actually, if they could get Standing Rock to agree to let UND use the name and then secure an injunction and sue the NCAA they might be able to work out a settlement that allows UND to retain the name. Quote
Teeder11 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Actually, if they could get Standing Rock to agree to let UND use the name and then secure an injunction and sue the NCAA they might be able to work out a settlement that allows UND to retain the name. I love your passion, but for as much as the "surrender the name" crowd gets bashed for "speculating" and "predicting" that UND would be irreparably harmed if we kept the nickname (by NCAA, BSC and other schools that would shun us), there sure seems to be a whole lot of "ifs" and "What ifs" and hoping and fantasizing about "what ifs" being espoused by the "nickname at all costs" crowd. Not calling you one of those per se. Just making a general observation. Neither side can tell the future, but the former is based on pragmatic thought and a desire not to cut off ones nose to spite its face, while the latter is based on wishes and hopes. Tell you what, crap in one hand and wish in the other and tell me which one fills up faster. Quote
Teeder11 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Actually, if they could get Standing Rock to agree to let UND use the name and then secure an injunction and sue the NCAA they might be able to work out a settlement that allows UND to retain the name. Oh, and one more thing, if in the end this 11th hour Hail Mary pass by Spirit Lake gains any credible traction in a positive direction (retaining the name) and avoids backlash from the NCAA, BSC and others, I will be the first one to say "you were right and I was wrong" while eating a big plate of Humble Pie, heavy on the crow. I really do want to be wrong. Quote
Fetch Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 We had to go thru most of this to get to this point Quote
IrishSiouxFan Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Oh, and one more thing, if in the end this 11th hour Hail Mary pass by Spirit Lake gains any credible traction in a positive direction (retaining the name) and avoids backlash from the NCAA, BSC and others I will be the first one to say "you were right and I was wrong" while eating big plate of Humble Pie, heavy on the crow. I really do want to be wrong. I never said that's will happen, only saying what I would do if I were in their position. I could be totally wrong about this but it seems like nobody has really reached out to Standing Rock, I know we have sent representatives and so on, but should we have asked the leaders of Spirit Lake if they would be willing to talk with Standing Rock to field their concerns and to see if a compromise could be reached. In my opinion, this whole thing could have been handled better if we made Standing Rock feel like they were part of the team and not an observer with a say. We did a terrible job of reaching out, they probably won't listen to us but they might listen to their Spirit Lake family. 2 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 At this point (namely, having sent the ND AG, ND Governor, and ND Legislature packing) on this issue the NCAA won't listen to anything short of an order from US Federal Court. Let me know when Spirit Lake Tribe is either: a) suing in US Federal Court, or b) working with Standing Rock to get them on-board Before that, none of it matters. None. Zilch. Quote
almostheavenin2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Just like the supporters of the 8 students that filed the lawsuit said in the past, "it's not important." Never saw or heard anyone say that once. Now that the shoe is on the other foot the story is different. Quote
darell1976 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 At this point (namely, having sent the ND AG, ND Governor, and ND Legislature packing) on this issue the NCAA won't listen to anything short of an order from US Federal Court. Let me know when Spirit Lake Tribe is either: a) suing in US Federal Court, or b) working with Standing Rock to get them on-board Before that, none of it matters. None. Zilch. Why US Federal Court? Also what is holding the NCAA back in kicking us out. I am sure they hate this issue being brought up, and every attempt there is to save the name. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Why US Federal Court? Juridiction. The Feds have it; the Tribal Court doesn't. Also what is holding the NCAA back in kicking us out. I am sure they hate this issue being brought up, and every attempt there is to save the name. Nothing, but if they didn't boot "The U" (Miami Hurricanes) for their recently discovered misdeeds booting a team for a moniker would raise some eyebrows. Quote
darell1976 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Juridiction. The Feds have it; the Tribal Court doesn't. Nothing, but if they didn't boot "The U" (Miami Hurricanes) for their recently discovered misdeeds booting a team for a moniker would raise some eyebrows. Could UND end up like SMU? Quote
siouxu31 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Could UND end up like SMU? Please explain the connection between SMU's situation in the 1980's and UND's current situation. I am very interested in your logic on this one. 1 Quote
ScottM Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Juridiction. The Feds have it; the Tribal Court doesn't. Which still doesn't mean they'll have standing to pursue a claim and drag this mess out even longer. Quote
petey23 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Juridiction. The Feds have it; the Tribal Court doesn't. Nothing, but if they didn't boot "The U" (Miami Hurricanes) for their recently discovered misdeeds booting a team for a moniker would raise some eyebrows. Not to mention Ohio St., Oregon, Boise St., USC, and virtually the entire SEC Quote
darell1976 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Please explain the connection between SMU's situation in the 1980's and UND's current situation. I am very interested in your logic on this one. Just saying the NCAA dropped the hammer on SMU for all their violations, what says the NCAA couldn't drop the hammer on UND for all this time and repeatly disreguard for NCAA policy. Again its their club, their rules. Do you think the NCAA would meet with the tribes? Not here, and I can see them telling the SL and or SR no to a meet in Indy as they are busy. They didn't want to meet with the tribes in the past and the only way they will meet is in a courthouse and that could take years in which UND has to go before a NCAA review on their transition in less than 300 days and if you piss off the NCAA they may say you have to wait "X" amount of years more. Then where would UND be? Quote
siouxu31 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Just saying the NCAA dropped the hammer on SMU for all their violations, what says the NCAA couldn't drop the hammer on UND for all this time and repeatly disreguard for NCAA policy. Again its their club, their rules. Do you think the NCAA would meet with the tribes? Not here, and I can see them telling the SL and or SR no to a meet in Indy as they are busy. They didn't want to meet with the tribes in the past and the only way they will meet is in a courthouse and that could take years in which UND has to go before a NCAA review on their transition in less than 300 days and if you piss off the NCAA they may say you have to wait "X" amount of years more. Then where would UND be? I am at a loss for words. I don't see any comparison between the two situations. The imposed "Death Penalty" on SMU by the NCAA was for SMU's football program. It did not affect any other sports at the school. It was imposed due to players accepting money from boosters after already being caught by the NCAA a few years earlier for the same thing along with other recruiting violations. The "Death Penalty" caused the football program to cancel the 87 season and lose all home games for the 88 season, along with losing scholarships over roughly a 3-4 year period. UND is using a name and logo that the NCAA deems "hostile and abusive." Where is the comparision, or am I just clueless? Quote
Goon Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 UND is using a name and logo that the NCAA deems "hostile and abusive." Where is the comparision, or am I just clueless? No you're not clueless, I don't see UND getting a death penalty either. Quote
2ndGenSiouxFan Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 The lawsuit may not be enough to encourage most, but I'm still hanging on to the notion that we can find a way to keep the logo/nickname. I'm stuck with this bad feeling about it all, given that Standing Rock never got a chance to vote, just seems wrong. I will have to keep the hope until I hear of a new nickname that is as unique and descriptive of our community and institution....and I just haven't heard anything thrown out yet. On a side note, I know that at the time the agreement was signed, our attorney general thought that both tribes would approve it, but was it short-sighted on his part to not look at other institutions' agreements and push for only one tribe's approval? I'm not trying to throw him under the bus, but am trying to understand why our agreement was structured differently than other institutions. Has there ever been any discussion on this point, or clarificatino from the AG? Quote
darell1976 Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 The lawsuit may not be enough to encourage most, but I'm still hanging on to the notion that we can find a way to keep the logo/nickname. I'm stuck with this bad feeling about it all, given that Standing Rock never got a chance to vote, just seems wrong. I will have to keep the hope until I hear of a new nickname that is as unique and descriptive of our community and institution....and I just haven't heard anything thrown out yet. On a side note, I know that at the time the agreement was signed, our attorney general thought that both tribes would approve it, but was it short-sighted on his part to not look at other institutions' agreements and push for only one tribe's approval? I'm not trying to throw him under the bus, but am trying to understand why our agreement was structured differently than other institutions. Has there ever been any discussion on this point, or clarificatino from the AG? But isn't all this stuff about lawsuits not worth anything due to the signed settlement requiring 2 tribal approvals? Quote
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