Dakota 4 through 3 years of FCS play

[darell1976]

I'm bored with football offseason, so I decided to crunch some numbers. UND's records from 2008-2010 along with the other 3 Dakota teams (SU's from 2004-2006). Something interesting came about who says UND is failing at their transition.

UND vs FCS OOC 6-5 NDSU vs FCS OOC 11-2 SDSU vs FCS OOC 5-7 USD vs FCS OOC 3-9

UND vs Div 3-8 NDSU vs Div 9-5 SDSU vs Div 8-6 USD vs Div 4-7

UND vs FBS 0-3 NDSU vs FBS 1-1 SDSU vs FBS 0-0 USD vs FBS 1-1

UND vs non DI teams 6-1 NDSU vs non DI teams 4-0 SDSU vs non DI teams 6-1 USD vs non DI teams 7-0

Total 15-17 Total 25-8 Total 19-14 Total 15-17

UND and NDSU are the only teams with winning records vs OOC FCS teams.

SDSU did not face a FBS team

UND and SDSU only teams to lose to a D2/D3/NAIA team

SDSU's first FBS game....2008!!!!

What does 2011 hold for UND? In 2007 NDSU went 10-1, SDSU went 7-4.

[Bison Dan]

I'm bored with football offseason, so I decided to crunch some numbers. UND's records from 2008-2010 along with the other 3 Dakota teams (SU's from 2004-2006). Something interesting came about who says UND is failing at their transition.

UND vs FCS OOC 6-5 NDSU vs FCS OOC 11-2 SDSU vs FCS OOC 5-7 USD vs FCS OOC 3-9

UND vs Div 3-8 NDSU vs Div 9-5 SDSU vs Div 8-6 USD vs Div 4-7

UND vs FBS 0-3 NDSU vs FBS 1-1 SDSU vs FBS 0-0 USD vs FBS 1-1

UND vs non DI teams 6-1 NDSU vs non DI teams 4-0 SDSU vs non DI teams 6-1 USD vs non DI teams 7-0

Total 15-17 Total 25-8 Total 19-14 Total 15-17

UND and NDSU are the only teams with winning records vs OOC FCS teams.

SDSU did not face a FBS team

UND and SDSU only teams to lose to a D2/D3/NAIA team

SDSU's first FBS game....2008!!!!

What does 2011 hold for UND? In 2007 NDSU went 10-1, SDSU went 7-4.

Easy to crunch the numbers but very hard to handicap the strengh of schedule...

[darell1976]

Easy to crunch the numbers but very hard to handicap the strengh of schedule...

Here you go. These are the FCS OOC games

1. SDSU 91-52 .637

2. USD 79-63 .557

3. NDSU 69-74 .483

4. UND 58-69 .457

NDSU SOS:

2004 19-25 .432

2005 33-22 .600

2006 17-27 .386 The worst by any year of the Dakota 4

UND SOS:

2008 15-21 .417

2009 21-26 .447

2010 22-22 .500

SDSU SOS

2004 23-12 .657 The toughest by any year of the Dakota 4

2005 30-19 .612

2006 38-21 .644

USD SOS:

2008 24-15 .615

2009 31-24 .564

2010 24-24 .500

[bincitysioux]

..................who says UND is failing at their transition.

Generally, it's just Bison fans and Ole in MSP that say North Dakota is failing in the transition....................

IMO, the biggest reason for the negativity surrounding North Dakota's football program throughout the DI transition falls squarely onto the loss to Sioux Falls....................despite the fact that SDSU suffered perhaps an even worse loss to a non-scholarship non-DI program early in their transition, and also have not won an FBS game to date, most knowledgable fans would consider their transition to DI a great success.

I think the future looks bright, and I haven't seen anything from North Dakota the last 3 seasons that would lead me to believe that the program is in dire straits as it forges ahead...............

[MoSiouxFan]

Generally, it's just Bison fans and Ole in MSP that say North Dakota is failing in the transition....................

IMO, the biggest reason for the negativity surrounding North Dakota's football program throughout the DI transition falls squarely onto the loss to Sioux Falls....................despite the fact that SDSU suffered perhaps an even worse loss to a non-scholarship non-DI program early in their transition, and also have not won an FBS game to date, most knowledgable fans would consider their transition to DI a great success.

I think the future looks bright, and I haven't seen anything from North Dakota the last 3 seasons that would lead me to believe that the program is in dire straits as it forges ahead...............

Right on; one has to block out the regular naysayers and focus on the step-by-step progress that's being made. The schedule gets dramatically better (and tougher) next season (and thereafter), and our last two recruiting classes will start to make their impact, if not this season, next season when it really counts. Go SIOUX!

[Bison Dan]

Here you go. These are the FCS OOC games

1. SDSU 91-52 .637

2. USD 79-63 .557

3. NDSU 69-74 .483

4. UND 58-69 .457

NDSU SOS:

2004 19-25 .432

2005 33-22 .600

2006 17-27 .386 The worst by any year of the Dakota 4

UND SOS:

2008 15-21 .417

2009 21-26 .447

2010 22-22 .500

SDSU SOS

2004 23-12 .657 The toughest by any year of the Dakota 4

2005 30-19 .612

2006 38-21 .644

USD SOS:

2008 24-15 .615

2009 31-24 .564

2010 24-24 .500

Records are a really poor way to judge strengh of schedule. A NAIA school that's 8-3 is judged better than a FBS team that is 6-5 or a crappy FCS team that's in a easy conference is better than a middle of the road team in a tough conference? So most of you are really happy with the way your fb program is going? A successful DI transition is based on all sports. Your schedule is getting better next year?

[darell1976]

All I heard from (mostly Bison fans) is how horrible we are against FCS teams, and all we can beat is the DII and below teams. 6-5 is pretty good through 3 years of DI scheduling. Thats why I think UND football isn't failing although I did have my doubts since it seems like all we play is D2 teams, but beating Idaho St, and Central Arkansas on the road are good signs that we can still be competitive with a D2 roster. And although going 3-8 this team is far from the dumps. We will see where our DI roster takes us, as for Bison Dan you can slam this team all you want, but all we heard is how great the Bison transition was and how that #1 ranking was, well the SOS speaks for itself.

VS FBS Teams

teams in parenthsis are teams with best record played)

NDSU 4-3 (Central Michigan 8-6) won 44-14

USD 1-1 (UCF 11-3) lost 38-7

UND 0-3 (Northern Illinois 11-3) lost 23-17

SDSU 0-3 (Nebraska 10-4) lost 17-3

Pretty respectable by UND, and SDSU

FBS SOS:

UND .650

USD .538

SDSU .462

NDSU .391

[UND1983]

Records are a really poor way to judge strengh of schedule. A NAIA school that's 8-3 is judged better than a FBS team that is 6-5 or a crappy FCS team that's in a easy conference is better than a middle of the road team in a tough conference? So most of you are really happy with the way your fb program is going? A successful DI transition is based on all sports. Your schedule is getting better next year?

If you look at Darrel's post, he accumulated FCS records of all 4 teams, not total records. Maybe I saw it wrong but he titled it "FCS OOC". Therefore, NAIA teams were not involved.

[darell1976]

If you look at Darrel's post, he accumulated FCS records of all 4 teams, not total records. Maybe I saw it wrong but he titled it "FCS OOC". Therefore, NAIA teams were not involved.

Thats exactly what I did. As for playing down UND lost to Sioux Falls and SDSU lost to DIII Wisconsin-LaCrosse. Both bad losses but SDSU did make the playoffs first so all hope is not lost by UND.

[Bison Dan]

If you look at Darrel's post, he accumulated FCS records of all 4 teams, not total records. Maybe I saw it wrong but he titled it "FCS OOC". Therefore, NAIA teams were not involved.

Doesn't matter all FCS teams are not created equal so the SOS criteria is BS.. But hey if it makes you feel good go with it.

[UND1983]

Doesn't matter all FCS teams are not created equal so the SOS criteria is BS.. But hey if it makes you feel good go with it.

Dan, are you understanding what we are talking about at all? SOS tells us how good each opponent actually was that season (which shows exactly how not all are created equal). Which then tells us that all schedules all not exactly comparative. If one school played a bunch of 0-11 teams it would not be the same as the other school that played 5 teams that were 8-3.

I am lost as to your point-are you arguing against yourself?

[petey23]

Thats exactly what I did. As for playing down UND lost to Sioux Falls and SDSU lost to DIII Wisconsin-LaCrosse. Both bad losses but SDSU did make the playoffs first so all hope is not lost by UND.

The loss to Sioux Falls was bad in the fact that they were an NAIA team.....truth be told they were the 2nd best team in the Dakotas that year.

[HowBoutThemBison?]

Strength of Schedule is a super fast super easy way to look at if you played a good schedule. It is flawed pretty badly if you really look at it. Say UND plays against a team like Robert Morris, a team that does well in a terrible conference, their strength of schedule shows a win against 9-2 team when in all actuality, RM sucks.

However, it is interesting to see the SOS's of each team. Thanks for pulling up those figures.

[Bison Dan]

The loss to Sioux Falls was bad in the fact that they were an NAIA team.....truth be told they were the 2nd best team in the Dakotas that year.

Only in your mind.

[The Sicatoka]

Doesn't matter all FCS teams are not created equal so the SOS criteria is BS..

SOS tells us how good each opponent actually was that season (which shows exactly how not all are created equal). Which then tells us that all schedules all not exactly comparative. If one school played a bunch of 0-11 teams it would not be the same as the other school that played 5 teams that were 8-3.

Dan, and only Dan, knows who the good teams are at any given time. No other measure (SOS, Sagarin, Massey) matters. When will you learn.

[goyotes]

The loss to Sioux Falls was bad in the fact that they were an NAIA team.....truth be told they were the 2nd best team in the Dakotas that year.

Please

[UND1983]

Please

Well, USD sure as hell wasn't the 2nd best team - and UND wasn't either. So that only leaves two other teams.

[Yote 53]

"Please" is the appropriate response. UND embarassed themselves. You need to own that on your own and not attempt to spread that around to the rest of us.

[darell1976]

"Please" is the appropriate response. UND embarassed themselves. You need to own that on your own and not attempt to spread that around to the rest of us.

Its true, and we almost lost the next home game to Southern Oregon another DII/NAIA team.

[GeauxSioux]

Its true, and we almost lost the next home game to Southern Oregon another DII/NAIA team.

Thankfully two weeks before the debacle against Sioux Falls, the Sioux outscored another South Dakota opponent 14-0 in the second half for a 27-12 Homecoming win. Who was that school again?

[Ole in MSP]

Thankfully two weeks before the debacle against Sioux Falls, the Sioux outscored another South Dakota opponent 14-0 in the second half for a 27-12 Homecoming win. Who was that school again?

In spite of whomever was the best or worst team in the Dakotas that year, the loss by UND to SFU was probably the most embarassing loss in school history. It fits well with the losses by UM to NDSU and USD with Mason and Brewster at the helm. Whether Mussman can erase that loss with future success remains to be seen, but undoubtedly it is a scar on his resume in my book along with an embarassing performance at Idaho and a very poor performance at SDSU last year. The games at NIU and TT were moral victories to an extent, but perhaps those teams overlooked UND like UND overlooked SFU. The game is one of emotion. As coaching goes, performance can be impacted by rhetoric or game plan. I am still unconvinced that Mussman is the guy to lead this program to the level it needs to be. I will give him two more years. Looking for a really good year this year with perhaps one major upset. If not, then maybe a coaching change is in order.

[bincitysioux]

So most of you are really happy with the way your fb program is going?

Happy after last season? Probably not................but in the grand scheme of things, North Dakota has had two losing seasons in the past 10 years, the same number that NDSU has had...............hardly reason for armageddon IMO. Were you also bummed that the Rapture didn't come this weekend?

A successful DI transition is based on all sports.

In 3 years of "transition", the football team has had a winning record two of three years and beaten the #16 team in the nation, the women's basketball team has won a conference title, the men's basketball team has won a conference tournament title and played in the post-season, the volleyball program has won two conference titles, and the softball program has won a conference title.

Failure?......................hardly..........

[darell1976]

Happy after last season? Probably not................but in the grand scheme of things, North Dakota has had two losing seasons in the past 10 years, the same number that NDSU has had...............hardly reason for armageddon IMO. Were you also bummed that the Rapture didn't come this weekend?

In 3 years of "transition", the football team has had a winning record two of three years and beaten the #16 team in the nation, the women's basketball team has won a conference title, the men's basketball team has won a conference tournament title and played in the post-season, the volleyball program has won two conference titles, and the softball program has won a conference title.

Failure?......................hardly..........

Its something how Bison fans want us to admit our transition is a failure when...#1 ITS NOT OVER YET!!! #2 the only thing to play for are conference titles we are not going to "the dance", we are not going to the FCS playoffs just like NDSU didn't during their transition. Even though they got the #1 ranking in the polls they still didn't go to the playoffs.

[dakota fairways]

In spite of whomever was the best or worst team in the Dakotas that year, the loss by UND to SFU was probably the most embarassing loss in school history. It fits well with the losses by UM to NDSU and USD with Mason and Brewster at the helm. Whether Mussman can erase that loss with future success remains to be seen, but undoubtedly it is a scar on his resume in my book along with an embarassing performance at Idaho and a very poor performance at SDSU last year. The games at NIU and TT were moral victories to an extent, but perhaps those teams overlooked UND like UND overlooked SFU. The game is one of emotion. As coaching goes, performance can be impacted by rhetoric or game plan. I am still unconvinced that Mussman is the guy to lead this program to the level it needs to be. I will give him two more years. Looking for a really good year this year with perhaps one major upset. If not, then maybe a coaching change is in order.

What about Nielson at Minnesota Duluth? If this is another season like last, Nielson should be on Faison's radar, and he may not be available in two years!

[darell1976]

What about Nielson at Minnesota Duluth? If this is another season like last, Nielson should be on Faison's radar, and he may not be available in two years!

This may be a long shot but what about Roger Thomas?? I know he was unpopular during the decision to go to DI but look what he did with the Sioux from 1986-1993 we went from the bottom to the top and beat the Bison.