UND Total Attendance Leader at FCS Level?

[star2city]

Spent more time than I should have on determining total 2010-2011 attendance for FCS schools that are among attendance leaders in any sport. All spectators sports were included, with some estimates included for sport that are not yet complete this spring (lacrosse, baseball, softball, etc).

Here's the results for total home attendance:

UND 356,000

Old Dominion 328,500

Delaware 259,800

Appy State 247,000

Villanova 247,000

Montana 244,000

Georgetown 227,000

James Madison 215,000

N Iowa 208,000

UMass 193,000

NDSU 190,000

MIssouri State 189,00

Montana St 178,000

Illinois St 171,000

S Illinois 146,000

There is at least one non-football school that has higher attendance than UND: Creighton, with 406,000 in attendance. Creighton is the only school that has a sport that exceeds UND men's hockey in attendance (297,000 for Bluejay BB vs 235,000 for hockey).

A number of the above schools have really exceptional women's basketball attendance: Montana, Mo St, Ill St, and James Madison. N Iowa's volleyball attendance is outstanding. Creighton has really been helped by the opening of its new baseball stadium.

Since all attendance receipts go in the same pot to support each athletic department, total attendance is actually more important than individual sport attendance.

What's especially interested is many of UND's sports have quite a bit of room to grow. Here's UND's individual sport attendances.

MHock: 235,100

WHock: 24,300

MBB: 24,100

WBB: 22,500

FB 40,800

VB: 6800

Soccer: 1900

Women's hockey can probably increase by 10,000 next year with a championship run. MBB probably could be at 40,000 with a Big Sky schedule and a decent team. Football should be at 70,000 in 2012. Volleyball could average over 1000 / game once in the Big Sky. With those increases, UND should be capable of hitting 400,000 total attendance.

[bincitysioux]

Good data!

But I was always told that hockey was a niche sport that nobody followed? ? ? ? ?

[IrishSiouxFan]

If the Ralph was built to hold 15,000-20,000 our attendance would be much much higher. Thanks for putting this data together, it really puts things into perspective when evaluating UND's potential.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Good data!

But I was always told that hockey was a niche sport that nobody followed? ? ? ? ?

Any any intelligent professor will tell you that the tradition encompassing the nickname had nothing to do with the sports team's winning or competing nor did it have anything to do with Ralph Engelstad's donation... LOL

BobIwabuchiFan

[GeauxSioux]

Nice work Star.

[darell1976]

If the Ralph was built to hold 15,000-20,000 our attendance would be much much higher. Thanks for putting this data together, it really puts things into perspective when evaluating UND's potential.

Is it possible to add more seats to the Ralph or is it at capacity when it was built??

[IrishSiouxFan]

Is it possible to add more seats to the Ralph or is it at capacity when it was built??

Unfortunately not, I asked management at the REA a couple of months ago and they told me no

[star2city]

Nice work Star.

I may be missing an FCS school or two with very high attendance. Just added Old Dominion, which has fantastic attendance in men's and women's BB, as well as Delaware, which benefited greatly from extra home FB games during their playoff run.

[star2city]

Good data!

But I was always told that hockey was a niche sport that nobody followed? ? ? ? ?

Most people usually associate "niche" with high-end, so that may be properly descriptive considering the salaries of former UND athletes:

Jonathon Toews, $6.4 mill

Zach Parise, $3.1 mill

Travis Zajac, $3.9 mil

Matt Greene, $2.75 mil

Jason Blake, $3.0 mil

Mike Commodore, $3.8 mil

Drew Stafford, $2.3 mill

Those are definitely "niche" salaries.

The fanbase where much of the "niche" talk comes from maybe would have a point in their derision of UND if they had former players making well in excess of that kind of money. But right now, all five of their former football players in the NFL (Ramon Humber, Craig Dahl, Kole Heckendorf, Joe Mays, Nick Schommer) make well under $1 mill.

Meanwhile, two graduates of the so-called lesser program, are pulling down huge NFL bucks:

Jimmy Kleinsasser, $3 mill

Chris Kuper, $ 7 mil linky

So in summary, "niche" program = high-end salaries.

"You want to work on a farm you go to NDSU; you want to own the farm you go to UND" Defensive Cordinator Dale Lennon in 1995 ...

[Ole in MSP]

I may be missing an FCS school or two with very high attendance. Just added Old Dominion, which has fantastic attendance in men's and women's BB, as well as Delaware, which benefited greatly from extra home FB games during their playoff run.

It would also be interesting to compare UND to like schools in FCS that play D1 hockey i.e. Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont etc. There may be others too.

[star2city]

Updated per request with more hockey schools (in italics):

UND 356,000

Old Dominion 328,500

Delaware 259,800

Appy State 247,000

Villanova 247,000

Montana 244,000

W Mich 232,000 (FBS football)

Georgetown 227,000

James Madison 215,000

N Iowa 208,000

UMass 193,000

Miami (OH) 191,000 (FBS football)

NDSU 190,000

MIssouri State 189,00

Montana St 178,000

Cornell 175,000

Bowling Green 175,000 (FBS football)

New Hampshire 173,000

Illinois St 171,000

Maine 148,000

S Illinois 146,000

Vermont 121,000 (no football)

[mizzou/sioux]

Spent more time than I should have on determining total 2010-2011 attendance for FCS schools that are among attendance leaders in any sport. All spectators sports were included, with some estimates included for sport that are not yet complete this spring (lacrosse, baseball, softball, etc).

Here's the results for total home attendance:

UND 356,000

Old Dominion 328,500

Delaware 259,800

Appy State 247,000

Villanova 247,000

Montana 244,000

Georgetown 227,000

James Madison 215,000

N Iowa 208,000

UMass 193,000

NDSU 190,000

MIssouri State 189,00

Montana St 178,000

Illinois St 171,000

S Illinois 146,000

There is at least one non-football school that has higher attendance than UND: Creighton, with 406,000 in attendance. Creighton is the only school that has a sport that exceeds UND men's hockey in attendance (297,000 for Bluejay BB vs 235,000 for hockey).

A number of the above schools have really exceptional women's basketball attendance: Montana, Mo St, Ill St, and James Madison. N Iowa's volleyball attendance is outstanding. Creighton has really been helped by the opening of its new baseball stadium.

Since all attendance receipts go in the same pot to support each athletic department, total attendance is actually more important than individual sport attendance.

What's especially interested is many of UND's sports have quite a bit of room to grow. Here's UND's individual sport attendances.

MHock: 235,100

WHock: 24,300

MBB: 24,100

WBB: 22,500

FB 40,800

VB: 6800

Soccer: 1900

Women's hockey can probably increase by 10,000 next year with a championship run. MBB probably could be at 40,000 with a Big Sky schedule and a decent team. Football should be at 70,000 in 2012. Volleyball could average over 1000 / game once in the Big Sky. With those increases, UND should be capable of hitting 400,000 total attendance.

Good data. Lots of hard work went into compiling this. Really appreciate it. Thanks again.

[RD17]

Spent more time than I should have on determining total 2010-2011 attendance for FCS schools that are among attendance leaders in any sport. All spectators sports were included, with some estimates included for sport that are not yet complete this spring (lacrosse, baseball, softball, etc).

Here's the results for total home attendance:

UND 356,000

Old Dominion 328,500

Delaware 259,800

Appy State 247,000

Villanova 247,000

Montana 244,000

Georgetown 227,000

James Madison 215,000

N Iowa 208,000

UMass 193,000

NDSU 190,000

MIssouri State 189,00

Montana St 178,000

Illinois St 171,000

S Illinois 146,000

There is at least one non-football school that has higher attendance than UND: Creighton, with 406,000 in attendance. Creighton is the only school that has a sport that exceeds UND men's hockey in attendance (297,000 for Bluejay BB vs 235,000 for hockey).

A number of the above schools have really exceptional women's basketball attendance: Montana, Mo St, Ill St, and James Madison. N Iowa's volleyball attendance is outstanding. Creighton has really been helped by the opening of its new baseball stadium.

Since all attendance receipts go in the same pot to support each athletic department, total attendance is actually more important than individual sport attendance.

What's especially interested is many of UND's sports have quite a bit of room to grow. Here's UND's individual sport attendances.

MHock: 235,100

WHock: 24,300

MBB: 24,100

WBB: 22,500

FB 40,800

VB: 6800

Soccer: 1900

Women's hockey can probably increase by 10,000 next year with a championship run. MBB probably could be at 40,000 with a Big Sky schedule and a decent team. Football should be at 70,000 in 2012. Volleyball could average over 1000 / game once in the Big Sky. With those increases, UND should be capable of hitting 400,000 total attendance.

Great post. This data points out the tremendous growth potential UND athletics has. Many of the other FCS programs are relying on student fees and outrageous amounts of institutional support to fund their programs while UND actually has butts in the seats. If we can get the indoor practice facility built soon and then eventually a 20K + football stadium built on campus, this university will have they tools it needs to develop into a very good D-I athletic program.

[darell1976]

Does UND keep track of baseball attendance?? Also what is the capacity of Kraft Field?

[star2city]

Does UND keep track of baseball attendance?? Also what is the capacity of Kraft Field?

I didn't include baseball or softball attendance for UND, as the crowds are usually so small. For certain other schools with larger attendances (more than 2000 total), I did include baseball and softball. UND's website lists Kraft Field capacity as 2000:

The North Dakota baseball team plays its home games at Kraft Field, a facility owned and operated by the Grand Forks Park District that includes bleacher seating for 2,000 in a picturesque setting with evergreens lining the outfield fences.

[star2city]

Men's Basketball attendance leaders

UND was third in attendance among reclassifying schools (Seattle was first by a wide margin.)

UND would be behind Montana, Montana St, N Colo, Weber St, and S Utah in Big Sky attendance.

The Big Sky has a slight lead over the Summit in attendance.

[dakotadan]

5,827 - Weber State

3,996 - Montana

3,228 - Montana State

2,315 - Southern Utah

2,261 - Northern Colorado

1,921 - Idaho State

1,720 - North Dakota

1,101 - Eastern Washington

962 - Portland State

747 - Northern Arizona

677 - Sac State

We have a ways to go but I am sure that having a Big Sky Conference schedule alone will increase the butts in the seats. And if the team keeps improving like they have we could end up with a pretty full Betty on a regular basis.

[forumcrew]

FCS stands for Football Championship Subdivision. That is for football only, or like PizzaDave calls it IAA. If you are a DI school, you are DI. Hockey is a true DI sport, has nothing to do with FCS, completely different. Same as basketball, true DI, even though you might play FB at a FCS level. The attendance figures you posted are laughable. Again, FCS is about football only, unless you are saying that UND hockey is at a lower level than a school that plays FBS football?? If that's the case, let's add in other DI hockey schools that play FBS, I mean let's compare peer to peer. What is U of M or Wisconsin, or whatever for full attendance. B/C when you add DI hockey into your football attendance, that is what you are doing.

[dakotadan]

I know that comprehension isn't a strong point for NDSUA&AS graduates, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out what the topic of this thread is. If you want to compare peer to peer, since UND plays football at the FCS level wouldn't it make sense to compare our athletic department to those of other FCS schools? You might want to go re-read the first post in this thread. It explains it rather clearly.

[FSSD]

FCS stands for Football Championship Subdivision. That is for football only, or like PizzaDave calls it IAA. If you are a DI school, you are DI. Hockey is a true DI sport, has nothing to do with FCS, completely different. Same as basketball, true DI, even though you might play FB at a FCS level. The attendance figures you posted are laughable. Again, FCS is about football only, unless you are saying that UND hockey is at a lower level than a school that plays FBS football?? If that's the case, let's add in other DI hockey schools that play FBS, I mean let's compare peer to peer. What is U of M or Wisconsin, or whatever for full attendance. B/C when you add DI hockey into your football attendance, that is what you are doing.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2010-11/misc_non_event/finald12011.pdf

FYI, the directors cup standings use the terminology of FBS, FCS, DIV1 to describe athletic departments.

- FBS - Div 1 school with FBS football school

- FCS - Div 1 school with FCS football school

- DIV1 - Div 1 school without football.

[The Sicatoka]

Spent more time than I should have on determining total 2010-2011 attendance for FCS schools that are among attendance leaders in any sport. All spectators sports were included, with some estimates included for sport that are not yet complete this spring (lacrosse, baseball, softball, etc).

FCS stands for Football Championship Subdivision. That is for football only, or like PizzaDave calls it IAA. If you are a DI school, you are DI. Hockey is a true DI sport, has nothing to do with FCS, completely different. Same as basketball, true DI, even though you might play FB at a FCS level. The attendance figures you posted are laughable. Again, FCS is about football only, unless you are saying that UND hockey is at a lower level than a school that plays FBS football?? If that's the case, let's add in other DI hockey schools that play FBS, I mean let's compare peer to peer. What is U of M or Wisconsin, or whatever for full attendance. B/C when you add DI hockey into your football attendance, that is what you are doing.

star picked a category and tallied it.

If star wanted to tally "total 2010-2011 attendance for schools with left-handed womens basketball point guards that come off the bench that are among attendance leaders in any sport" that's his perogative.

As with any statistic it is useful within its context and star provided his context clearly and accurately.

[green_sioux]

star picked a category and tallied it.

If star wanted to tally "total 2010-2011 attendance for schools with left-handed womens basketball point guards that come off the bench that are among attendance leaders in any sport" that's his perogative.

As with any statistic it is useful within its context and star provided his context clearly and accurately.

The late, great Bruce Telleman always said about statistics (roughly)...............Statistics are like bathing suits, what they show can be revealing. But, what they can cover up can be even more important.

[The Sicatoka]

[krangodance]

FCS stands for Football Championship Subdivision. That is for football only, or like PizzaDave calls it IAA. If you are a DI school, you are DI. Hockey is a true DI sport, has nothing to do with FCS, completely different. Same as basketball, true DI, even though you might play FB at a FCS level. The attendance figures you posted are laughable. Again, FCS is about football only, unless you are saying that UND hockey is at a lower level than a school that plays FBS football?? If that's the case, let's add in other DI hockey schools that play FBS, I mean let's compare peer to peer. What is U of M or Wisconsin, or whatever for full attendance. B/C when you add DI hockey into your football attendance, that is what you are doing.

Actually he did compare peer to peer. He compared D1 schools who compete at the FCS level in football. To compare D1/FCS to D1/FBS would not be peer to peer. Does anybody (besides forumcrew) actually think that comparing schools that compete at the FCS level with the likes of Alabama, Texas and Florida State is a fair comparison? Those schools have stadiums that seat, what, 80,000, 100,000, or more? I don't know the exact numbers but it's a lot and they sell them out every weekend.

What you're suggesting would be equivalent to comparing a minor league baseball team's attendance to the average MLB team attendance. What star did was equivalent to comparing all minor league baseball team's attendance to each other, which is an apples to apples comparison. You, skippy, are trying to compare apples to watermelons.

[JohnboyND7]

Actually he did compare peer to peer. He compared D1 schools who compete at the FCS level in football. To compare D1/FCS to D1/FBS would not be peer to peer. Does anybody (besides forumcrew) actually think that comparing schools that compete at the FCS level with the likes of Alabama, Texas and Florida State is a fair comparison? Those schools have stadiums that seat, what, 80,000, 100,000, or more? I don't know the exact numbers but it's a lot and they sell them out every weekend.

What you're suggesting would be equivalent to comparing a minor league baseball team's attendance to the average MLB team attendance. What star did was equivalent to comparing all minor league baseball team's attendance to each other, which is an apples to apples comparison. You, skippy, are trying to compare apples to watermelons.

This obviously does favor UND, very few FCS teams have hockey as a sport. I feel like if you are going to compare attendence it should include mainstream (no niche sports), Football, Basketball, Volleyball. Those are 3 sports that I would assume nearly all FCS programs have, and would make for the most fair comparison.