POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[gjw007]

I read posts from Bison fans on AGS and on BVille when NDSU was ranked #1 in the polls during their GWFC years people were crying out for the NCAA to bend the rules and let them in the playoffs, then their first year of playoff eligibility they did...NOTHING! The second year...Nothing 3rd year ...Flopped (3-8), it took 4 years to finally make the playoffs and barely made it.

I wouldn't take anything away from the NDSU team. It has had some great victories including Minnesota. UND's teams have not been up to its normal standard the last few years. That doesn't mean the game shouldn't be played again NDSU and yes, i would expect NDSU to win based on last year's play.

[homer]

Maybe tanked is a harsh word, but not considering what most have come to expect from the UND program. When did NDSU have all this hype and not make the playoffs? When we went 3-8 two years ago? No hype from me, most NDSU fans knew that without a decent quarterback we would never get it done. There will always be hype surrounding the NDSU football team, not the same but similar to UND hockey. Being the premier program at a school tends to lend itself well to fans over-hyping the talent of a team.

You're right it's easy to sit back and say this team would beat that team.

I don't see any reason why NDSU would want to play UND right now. In the eyes of a lot of people in the area, if you aren't one of them fine, NDSU has the perception of being the superior program. This helps with recruiting, fund-raising, student interest etc. If we play again and let's say we lose, then we have lost the perception of being superior. If we win, people will still believe we are the superior program. I don't see any advantage strategically for NDSU to play this game.

But if your so sure your the superior team you should have nothing to worry about and be scared of. Your last few posts have been talking about how your far and away the better team and even all the Sioux fans you know think that, (find that really hard to believe) but your scared about what will happen when you lose. That is a very comical post.

[dakota fairways]

Tanked is a harsh word. Just because we aren't on top of the FCS doesn't mean our program has tanked it. We didn't go from the top of the DII world to the bottom of the FCS. We could be like NDSU and be ranked #1 in the polls, have all this hype then do nothing when playoffs are on the line (except last season). Nobody cares when you can't win the title (and not the GWFC title either). I don't know if UND would beat NDSU, and I don't know if NDSU would beat UND they don't play. Of course Sioux fans will say UND will win, and Bison fans will say NDSU will win. Anybody can beat anybody. Play the game then we'll talk.

Case in point - NCAA Hockey Frozen Four semifinals

[darell1976]

Just to clarify...

The Bison won the Nickel Trophy game in 1997 and 2000 but not 1998. 1998 was the big Jim Kleinsasser game at the Fargodome. The Sioux won 9 of the last 11 Nickel Trophy games (each year from 1993 to 2003 with the exception of 1997 and 2000). During this period the Sioux and Bison split their two postseason matchups, with the Sioux winning in 1994 and the Bison winning in 1995. Counting playoff games UND won 10 of the last 13 Sioux/Bison games ever played.

Here are the scores of the last 10 games:

1994 UND 34 @ NDSU 13

1995 UND 21 vs NDSU 7

1996 UND 33 @ NDSU 19

1997 UND 10 vs NDSU 31

1998 UND 39 @ NDSU 25

1999 UND 13 vs NDSU 10

2000 UND 13 @ NDSU 16

2001 UND 19 vs NDSU 7

2002 UND 12 @ NDSU 6

2003 UND 28 vs NDSU 21 OT

Playoffs:

1994 UND 14 vs NDSU 7

1995 UND 10 vs NDSU 41

UND's record in Fargodome: 4-1

NDSU's record in the Alerus Center: 0-2

[Bison06]

But if your so sure your the superior team you should have nothing to worry about and be scared of. Your last few posts have been talking about how your far and away the better team and even all the Sioux fans you know think that, (find that really hard to believe) but your scared about what will happen when you lose. That is a very comical post.

Glad I can amuse you. Not scared, just realistic.

The fact is I am confident that if NDSU played UND this year, NDSU would win. But, being a competitor I realize any time you step on the field with a quality opponent in could result in a loss. With that in mind, it doesn't make sense for NDSU to play UND any time in the near future, because a loss would eliminate NDSU being viewed as the superior program.

This is the same reason Minnesota isn't happy about playing NDSU, are they scared? No. They just realize the negative press that comes with losing to a team that is viewed as inferior by the general public.

Honest question for you homer, have you seen NDSU play in the last couple of years?

[UNDvince97-01]

With that in mind, it doesn't make sense for NDSU to play UND any time in the near future, because a loss would eliminate NDSU being viewed as the superior program.

This is such a farce. You guys are such pussies when you hide behind that excuse. Do you realize how lame that sounds? Just think about it once. If you are superior, then lets see it on the field. Prove it.

But no, some of you guys would just prefer playing the propaganda game and claim imaginary wins and superiority. Kinda like you did with a few of your national championships.

[darell1976]

Glad I can amuse you. Not scared, just realistic.

The fact is I am confident that if NDSU played UND this year, NDSU would win. But, being a competitor I realize any time you step on the field with a quality opponent in could result in a loss. With that in mind, it doesn't make sense for NDSU to play UND any time in the near future, because a loss would eliminate NDSU being viewed as the superior program.

This is the same reason Minnesota isn't happy about playing NDSU, are they scared? No. They just realize the negative press that comes with losing to a team that is viewed as inferior by the general public.

Honest question for you homer, have you seen NDSU play in the last couple of years?

Who outside of Fargo says you are a superior program? How many MVFC titles have you won? Is it because you can beat Robert Morris in the playoffs at home? Or is it because you beat Montana State. After this season we will see how superior you really are...remember 3-8 was just 2 years ago.

[Bison06]

Who outside of Fargo says you are a superior program? How many MVFC titles have you won? Is it because you can beat Robert Morris in the playoffs at home? Or is it because you beat Montana State. After this season we will see how superior you really are...remember 3-8 was just 2 years ago.

What do you want me to take a poll? Or give you names of former UND players that are friends of mine? Watch the two teams, NDSU puts a better product on the field right now. In the absence of an actual game that is all we are left with. 3-8? Thanks for the reminder, if you guys want to play that game, I'll remind you that the USF loss isn't too far in the rear view mirror either.

[Bison06]

This is such a farce. You guys are such pussies when you hide behind that excuse. Do you realize how lame that sounds? Just think about it once. If you are superior, then lets see it on the field. Prove it.

But no, some of you guys would just prefer playing the propaganda game and claim imaginary wins and superiority. Kinda like you did with a few of your national championships.

It's not me making the decision to not play. I am just relaying my opinion on why it doesn't make sense for NDSU to play right now.

Let me ask you this, why does UND want to play the game so badly? Could it be because of the exact opposite reason I am saying NDSU doesn't want to play the game. UND has way more to gain, evidenced by who is really pushing for this game.

[UND-1]

It's not me making the decision to not play. I am just relaying my opinion on why it doesn't make sense for NDSU to play right now.

Let me ask you this, why does UND want to play the game so badly? Could it be because of the exact opposite reason I am saying NDSU doesn't want to play the game. UND has way more to gain, evidenced by who is really pushing for this game.

It is quite obvious that UND does not want to play the game. Some fans, yes, but the administration doesn't seem to want to.

[senor_sieve]

It is quite obvious that UND does not want to play the game. Some fans, yes, but the administration doesn't seem to want to.

they'd rather schedule games against the South Dakota School for the Blind.

[darell1976]

It's not me making the decision to not play. I am just relaying my opinion on why it doesn't make sense for NDSU to play right now.

Let me ask you this, why does UND want to play the game so badly? Could it be because of the exact opposite reason I am saying NDSU doesn't want to play the game. UND has way more to gain, evidenced by who is really pushing for this game.

Maybe to silence the useless dribble coming from the mouths of over-cocky Bison fans.

[darell1976]

What do you want me to take a poll? Or give you names of former UND players that are friends of mine? Watch the two teams, NDSU puts a better product on the field right now. In the absence of an actual game that is all we are left with. 3-8? Thanks for the reminder, if you guys want to play that game, I'll remind you that the USF loss isn't too far in the rear view mirror either.

You said it yourself..."because a loss would eliminate NDSU being viewed as the superior program" So exactly who outside of Fargo views NDSU as a "superior" program? Do you have quotes from UNI, or SDSU or SIU? Because to me thats just the green and yellow kool-aid talking. If you would like I could put up a poll on AGS.com and let the FCS world vote to see if NDSU is a "superior" program. Because IMO the last time NDSU was "superior" was in the 80's and early 90's you know pre-Fargodome era.

[LB#11]

Here are the scores of the last 10 games:

1994 UND 34 @ NDSU 13

1995 UND 21 vs NDSU 7

1996 UND 33 @ NDSU 19

1997 UND 10 vs NDSU 31

1998 UND 39 @ NDSU 25

1999 UND 13 vs NDSU 10

2000 UND 13 @ NDSU 16

2001 UND 19 vs NDSU 7

2002 UND 12 @ NDSU 6

2003 UND 28 vs NDSU 21 OT

Playoffs:

1994 UND 14 vs NDSU 7

1995 UND 10 vs NDSU 41

UND's record in Fargodome: 4-1

NDSU's record in the Alerus Center: 0-2

From what I see there's no question who the superior team is.

[UND-1]

they'd rather schedule games against the South Dakota School for the Blind.

If you want to compare future schedules we will be fine with that. UND's future overall schedules are better than any other Dakota team and the home schedule is much, much better.

[Yote 53]

Ok, I can give an outside observer's perspective on the squabble you got going here. Since USD has a long history with both schools and also played both schools just last year I think I can give you a reasonable answer. Based on last year's play NDSU had the better team in 2010. As for the question who has the superior program the answer is neither one of you do. You both have strong programs with good tradition that most years put very good teams on the field.

Who benefits most from this game? Since UND joined the BSC, neither one of you gets more of a benefit or needs this game any more than the other. UND will be playoff eligible and be a member of a strong FCS conference, same as NDSU.

Playing this game annually now should be done for the benefit of the people of North Dakota and because it is a good regional non conference game that will sell out, create excitement and fan interest and is not a travel hassle for fans to get to. If NDSU doesn't want to play UND, I'm sure USD would gladly play the Sioux every year (I've got more on that subject, why does your AD keep blocking the UND/USD series? From what I've heard we've offered several different proposals to keep us playing each other and UND keeps shooting them down). As for the excuse of needing wins over patsy FCS teams to be playoff eligible, you answered your own question. If a loss to UND or vice versa to NDSU is the deciding factor in keeping you out of the playoffs then you didn't deserve to be there in the first place.

As for the trailblazer, who went first argument, who cares? So USD/UND went 5 years later, in the end we (USD) ended up in the exact same conference as the SU's and UND ended up in the Big Sky. Heck, you could actually make the argument that the U's took the better approach in waiting to see how this thing would all play out since UND ended up in the conference NDSU and SDSU coveted and USD had their pick of which conference they wanted. In the end we all ended up in the FCS, in quality conferences, and very soon all playoff eligible so it really doesn't matter anymore except to a bunch of internet chest thumpers.

[darell1976]

Ok, I can give an outside observer's perspective on the squabble you got going here. Since USD has a long history with both schools and also played both schools just last year I think I can give you a reasonable answer. Based on last year's play NDSU had the better team in 2010. As for the question who has the superior program the answer is neither one of you do. You both have strong programs with good tradition that most years put very good teams on the field.

Who benefits most from this game? Since UND joined the BSC, neither one of you gets more of a benefit or needs this game any more than the other. UND will be playoff eligible and be a member of a strong FCS conference, same as NDSU.

Playing this game annually now should be done for the benefit of the people of North Dakota and because it is a good regional non conference game that will sell out, create excitement and fan interest and is not a travel hassle for fans to get to. If NDSU doesn't want to play UND, I'm sure USD would gladly play the Sioux every year (I've got more on that subject, why does your AD keep blocking the UND/USD series? From what I've heard we've offered several different proposals to keep us playing each other and UND keeps shooting them down). As for the excuse of needing wins over patsy FCS teams to be playoff eligible, you answered your own question. If a loss to UND or vice versa to NDSU is the deciding factor in keeping you out of the playoffs then you didn't deserve to be there in the first place.

As for the trailblazer, who went first argument, who cares? So USD/UND went 5 years later, in the end we (USD) ended up in the exact same conference as the SU's and UND ended up in the Big Sky. Heck, you could actually make the argument that the U's took the better approach in waiting to see how this thing would all play out since UND ended up in the conference NDSU and SDSU coveted and USD had their pick of which conference they wanted. In the end we all ended up in the FCS, in quality conferences, and very soon all playoff eligible so it really doesn't matter anymore except to a bunch of internet chest thumpers.

The quote of the day!!!

I do hope UND plays USD in the near future!

[UND-1]

Ok, I can give an outside observer's perspective on the squabble you got going here. Since USD has a long history with both schools and also played both schools just last year I think I can give you a reasonable answer. Based on last year's play NDSU had the better team in 2010. As for the question who has the superior program the answer is neither one of you do. You both have strong programs with good tradition that most years put very good teams on the field.

Who benefits most from this game? Since UND joined the BSC, neither one of you gets more of a benefit or needs this game any more than the other. UND will be playoff eligible and be a member of a strong FCS conference, same as NDSU.

Playing this game annually now should be done for the benefit of the people of North Dakota and because it is a good regional non conference game that will sell out, create excitement and fan interest and is not a travel hassle for fans to get to. If NDSU doesn't want to play UND, I'm sure USD would gladly play the Sioux every year (I've got more on that subject, why does your AD keep blocking the UND/USD series? From what I've heard we've offered several different proposals to keep us playing each other and UND keeps shooting them down). As for the excuse of needing wins over patsy FCS teams to be playoff eligible, you answered your own question. If a loss to UND or vice versa to NDSU is the deciding factor in keeping you out of the playoffs then you didn't deserve to be there in the first place.

As for the trailblazer, who went first argument, who cares? So USD/UND went 5 years later, in the end we (USD) ended up in the exact same conference as the SU's and UND ended up in the Big Sky. Heck, you could actually make the argument that the U's took the better approach in waiting to see how this thing would all play out since UND ended up in the conference NDSU and SDSU coveted and USD had their pick of which conference they wanted. In the end we all ended up in the FCS, in quality conferences, and very soon all playoff eligible so it really doesn't matter anymore except to a bunch of internet chest thumpers.

Nice post.

[ShilohSioux]

Great insight!

Yes, the UND-NDSU game should be played regularly FOR THE PEOPLE OF NORTH DAKOTA and all the other reasons mentioned here -- creates excitement and fan interest, good attendance, easy /low cost "away" game for one team, etc....

Yote, I don't know why our administration is blocking an annual or semi-annual game with the Yotes but if it isn't because they hope to have a regular series with the Bison, they are missing a good bet, for many of the same reasons why the NDSU-UND series should be played. At least one if not two of our OCC games each year should be played against the regional Dakota universities. We could do both -- playing one game in Grand Forks and the other in either Fargo or Vermillion each year. That still leaves one non-league game for an FBS school or a patsie FCS team. But if that's not possible, then an every-other-year game with the Yotes would be most welcome.

Ok, I can give an outside observer's perspective on the squabble you got going here. Since USD has a long history with both schools and also played both schools just last year I think I can give you a reasonable answer. Based on last year's play NDSU had the better team in 2010. As for the question who has the superior program the answer is neither one of you do. You both have strong programs with good tradition that most years put very good teams on the field.

Who benefits most from this game? Since UND joined the BSC, neither one of you gets more of a benefit or needs this game any more than the other. UND will be playoff eligible and be a member of a strong FCS conference, same as NDSU.

Playing this game annually now should be done for the benefit of the people of North Dakota and because it is a good regional non conference game that will sell out, create excitement and fan interest and is not a travel hassle for fans to get to. If NDSU doesn't want to play UND, I'm sure USD would gladly play the Sioux every year (I've got more on that subject, why does your AD keep blocking the UND/USD series? From what I've heard we've offered several different proposals to keep us playing each other and UND keeps shooting them down). As for the excuse of needing wins over patsy FCS teams to be playoff eligible, you answered your own question. If a loss to UND or vice versa to NDSU is the deciding factor in keeping you out of the playoffs then you didn't deserve to be there in the first place.

As for the trailblazer, who went first argument, who cares? So USD/UND went 5 years later, in the end we (USD) ended up in the exact same conference as the SU's and UND ended up in the Big Sky. Heck, you could actually make the argument that the U's took the better approach in waiting to see how this thing would all play out since UND ended up in the conference NDSU and SDSU coveted and USD had their pick of which conference they wanted. In the end we all ended up in the FCS, in quality conferences, and very soon all playoff eligible so it really doesn't matter anymore except to a bunch of internet chest thumpers.

[dakota fairways]

Ok, I can give an outside observer's perspective on the squabble you got going here. Since USD has a long history with both schools and also played both schools just last year I think I can give you a reasonable answer. Based on last year's play NDSU had the better team in 2010. As for the question who has the superior program the answer is neither one of you do. You both have strong programs with good tradition that most years put very good teams on the field.

Who benefits most from this game? Since UND joined the BSC, neither one of you gets more of a benefit or needs this game any more than the other. UND will be playoff eligible and be a member of a strong FCS conference, same as NDSU.

Playing this game annually now should be done for the benefit of the people of North Dakota and because it is a good regional non conference game that will sell out, create excitement and fan interest and is not a travel hassle for fans to get to. If NDSU doesn't want to play UND, I'm sure USD would gladly play the Sioux every year (I've got more on that subject, why does your AD keep blocking the UND/USD series? From what I've heard we've offered several different proposals to keep us playing each other and UND keeps shooting them down). As for the excuse of needing wins over patsy FCS teams to be playoff eligible, you answered your own question. If a loss to UND or vice versa to NDSU is the deciding factor in keeping you out of the playoffs then you didn't deserve to be there in the first place.

As for the trailblazer, who went first argument, who cares? So USD/UND went 5 years later, in the end we (USD) ended up in the exact same conference as the SU's and UND ended up in the Big Sky. Heck, you could actually make the argument that the U's took the better approach in waiting to see how this thing would all play out since UND ended up in the conference NDSU and SDSU coveted and USD had their pick of which conference they wanted. In the end we all ended up in the FCS, in quality conferences, and very soon all playoff eligible so it really doesn't matter anymore except to a bunch of internet chest thumpers.

Great Post!

Why is Mr Faison so scheduling challenged? Its not like there is any lack of really good choices for out of conference games? The Sioux should be playing schools like NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNI.

[gjw007]

Ok, I can give an outside observer's perspective on the squabble you got going here. Since USD has a long history with both schools and also played both schools just last year I think I can give you a reasonable answer. Based on last year's play NDSU had the better team in 2010. As for the question who has the superior program the answer is neither one of you do. You both have strong programs with good tradition that most years put very good teams on the field.

Who benefits most from this game? Since UND joined the BSC, neither one of you gets more of a benefit or needs this game any more than the other. UND will be playoff eligible and be a member of a strong FCS conference, same as NDSU.

Playing this game annually now should be done for the benefit of the people of North Dakota and because it is a good regional non conference game that will sell out, create excitement and fan interest and is not a travel hassle for fans to get to. If NDSU doesn't want to play UND, I'm sure USD would gladly play the Sioux every year (I've got more on that subject, why does your AD keep blocking the UND/USD series? From what I've heard we've offered several different proposals to keep us playing each other and UND keeps shooting them down). As for the excuse of needing wins over patsy FCS teams to be playoff eligible, you answered your own question. If a loss to UND or vice versa to NDSU is the deciding factor in keeping you out of the playoffs then you didn't deserve to be there in the first place.

As for the trailblazer, who went first argument, who cares? So USD/UND went 5 years later, in the end we (USD) ended up in the exact same conference as the SU's and UND ended up in the Big Sky. Heck, you could actually make the argument that the U's took the better approach in waiting to see how this thing would all play out since UND ended up in the conference NDSU and SDSU coveted and USD had their pick of which conference they wanted. In the end we all ended up in the FCS, in quality conferences, and very soon all playoff eligible so it really doesn't matter anymore except to a bunch of internet chest thumpers.

Now you've gone and made the NDSU posters mad, you must know (according to NDSU fans) that you can only post praise for the Bison

[darell1976]

Great Post!

Why is Mr Faison so scheduling challenged? Its not like there is any lack of really good choices for out of conference games? The Sioux should be playing schools like NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNI.

This is a surprise. You would think after our DII team beat them at their house they wouldn't be on the phone trying to get a game at our house. I guess UNI is "scared".

[UND Fan]

Ok, I can give an outside observer's perspective on the squabble you got going here. Since USD has a long history with both schools and also played both schools just last year I think I can give you a reasonable answer. Based on last year's play NDSU had the better team in 2010. As for the question who has the superior program the answer is neither one of you do. You both have strong programs with good tradition that most years put very good teams on the field.

Who benefits most from this game? Since UND joined the BSC, neither one of you gets more of a benefit or needs this game any more than the other. UND will be playoff eligible and be a member of a strong FCS conference, same as NDSU.

Playing this game annually now should be done for the benefit of the people of North Dakota and because it is a good regional non conference game that will sell out, create excitement and fan interest and is not a travel hassle for fans to get to. If NDSU doesn't want to play UND, I'm sure USD would gladly play the Sioux every year (I've got more on that subject, why does your AD keep blocking the UND/USD series? From what I've heard we've offered several different proposals to keep us playing each other and UND keeps shooting them down). As for the excuse of needing wins over patsy FCS teams to be playoff eligible, you answered your own question. If a loss to UND or vice versa to NDSU is the deciding factor in keeping you out of the playoffs then you didn't deserve to be there in the first place.

As for the trailblazer, who went first argument, who cares? So USD/UND went 5 years later, in the end we (USD) ended up in the exact same conference as the SU's and UND ended up in the Big Sky. Heck, you could actually make the argument that the U's took the better approach in waiting to see how this thing would all play out since UND ended up in the conference NDSU and SDSU coveted and USD had their pick of which conference they wanted. In the end we all ended up in the FCS, in quality conferences, and very soon all playoff eligible so it really doesn't matter anymore except to a bunch of internet chest thumpers.

I will echo the others insaying this was a well-thought out and well-written overview of the situaiton.

I am quite confused why Faison would be less than eager to find dates for games with USD - makes so sense. If you learn of any reason he may be giving, please let us know.

[darell1976]

I will echo the others insaying this was a well-thought out and well-written overview of the situaiton.

I am quite confused why Faison would be less than eager to find dates for games with USD - makes so sense. If you learn of any reason he may be giving, please let us know.

If he schedules DII/NAIA teams over USD then Houston we have a problem.

[Ole in MSP]

Great Post!

Why is Mr Faison so scheduling challenged? Its not like there is any lack of really good choices for out of conference games? The Sioux should be playing schools like NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNI.

I have been as critical as anyone of Faison and the Sioux FB schedules. The only reason he could be so conservative in his scheduling now with the BSC schedule locked up is he feels he can do better than the regional universities. That may be short sighted or maybe he can pull off some real surprises. Optimistically lets hope he can pull off some big name games. Otherwise not scheduling these 4 former NCC opponents could backfire for years. I hear he has been working to schedule Wisconsin for some time. Playing the Big 10 is going to get tougher and tougher with Nebraska in the fold as well as those Big 10 schools looking to upgrade their NC schedules. Time will tell, but as critical of Faison as I have been, he has pulled off the BSC entry and just maybe he has more to show us.