darell1976 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 With a simple understanding of arithmetic it really isn't that hard to understand Dave. Someone will have to give specific numbers because I was too young to know what the scholarship limits actually were back then. For the sake of the argument assume that if someone is offered by NDSU they would accept, probably not that far from the truth back then. If everyone has 45 scholarships and they get reduced to 36, there are 9 quality players that in previous years would have been on NDSU's roster that are spread out among the other schools. Also, for the sake of the argument assume that all 9 of those guys that would have gone to NDSU if they had 9 more scholarships end up on the same roster at another school year after year. It would be similar to taking the last 9 guys to be offered a scholarship each year at UND and send them over to SUU or some other conference team. How happy would UND be to do that, especially if you ended up playing against them and they were damn good? College recruiting can be a crapshoot, so even though those 9 might have just missed the cut to get on NDSU's roster they may have turned out to be studs for the other teams. Do this for a few years and it isn't hard to see how this evens the playing field significantly. When I say even the playing field I don't mean in a fair play kind of good way, it evens it in the way that communism evens the playing field, by bringing the best back to the pack. This causes a watering down of the whole division. Is this what Rocky Hager was blabbing about in the PBS show When They Were Kings. The reason NDSU went down and UND went up was the cut in scholarships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Is this what Rocky Hager was blabbing about in the PBS show When They Were Kings. The reason NDSU went down and UND went up was the cut in scholarships. It's pretty logical to say that was a part of it, but as others have said, football programs are cyclical. Maybe it was just UND's time to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Is this what Rocky Hager was blabbing about in the PBS show When They Were Kings. The reason NDSU went down and UND went up was the cut in scholarships. Im assuming yes it was. What he didn't say was that he had less margin for error when recruiting and got out recruited and out coached by RT after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ndsu was already gone, but und could have stayed and kept the ncc fully intact. Und's move destroyed the ncc and the potential state rivalries in Bismarck and Minot from being realized. I think a petition by the state legislature should have been pursued to keep und from destroying the ncc, unnecessary spending, and keeping rivalries together. Seriously? UND does not belong in a conference with Minot and Bismarck any more than ndsu does. Nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Too bad the entire NCC didn't stay in D2. Had that been the case D2 would not have become the watered down product that it is today. DII was watered down for a good decade before we left. I remember NDSU playing a semifinal game on a field covered in cat litter, so glad we decided to leave and never look back. None of the Dakota schools fit into what DII had become, it was just holding us all back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 DII was watered down for a good decade before we left. I remember NDSU playing a semifinal game on a field covered in cat litter, so glad we decided to leave and never look back. None of the Dakota schools fit into what DII had become, it was just holding us all back. Agreed and it's nice that a Bison Fan is willing to admit that all of the Dakota schools are on an equal playing field. Changes are still coming to college football structure though - not sure we'll recognize it in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I love when Bison fans cry about the cat litter field. When the Bison won games on horrible playing surfaces (like the 1984 Nickel Trophy game or the 1994 playoff game at Pitt State) it was the stuff legends are made of, but they lose one game on a similarly bad playing surface and the crying still hasn't stopped over a decade later. Just another great example of why you guys are the most unlikeable fanbase in all sports college and pro. It was eye opening is all I'm saying. For me that is the moment where I said it was time to move on, it was clear as day that we no longer fit in DII. I'm glad we did because I've enjoyed experiences at the FCS level that NDSU would have never seen in DII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 And, for what it's worth, the case could be made that Bison fans in the '80s (and Sioux fans in 2001) enjoyed experiences at the D2 level that they'll never see in I-AA. I-AA isn't a bad level of play, and while it is technically a step up from D2 it just seems rather bland compared to the old NCC. Watching the Sioux take on the likes of Cal Davis and Southern Utah the past couple of seasons just didn't do for me what the old matchups vs. UNC and UNO used to. NDSU fans have enjoyed experiences that we had in D-II. 10,000 people rocking in Texas. National Championship. You are stuck in the past. Times change. Just like people growing up, so do universities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Actually, NDSU is the only one of the four that has done better in I-AA than they were doing in D2 towards the end of their time there. Any idiot can see that. Wrong again. Man that must get old for you. It's like owning a business. You have to have vision about being better off down the road. If you don't change (and try to just live in the past/present) you die. But maybe you already know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 NDSU fans have enjoyed different experiences in I-AA than in D2, and no I'm not stuck in the past. If I'm stuck anywhere it is in the present time. I'm stuck here trying to get back to a better place in time. Huh? Not stuck in the past but trying to get BACK to a better place in time??? Sounds like the past to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jheria Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I love when Bison fans cry about the cat litter field. When the Bison won games on horrible playing surfaces (like the 1984 Nickel Trophy game or the 1994 playoff game at Pitt State) it was the stuff legends are made of, but they lose one game on a similarly bad playing surface and the crying still hasn't stopped over a decade later. Just another great example of why you guys are the most unlikeable fanbase in all sports college and pro. I love when Davey K cries about the Bison!!!! Makes me happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Agreed and it's nice that a Bison Fan is willing to admit that all of the Dakota schools are on an equal playing field. Changes are still coming to college football structure though - not sure we'll recognize it in 5 years. I'll bet after the four team playoff in the D-1 Bowl division begins, it will expand quickly to eight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 So you're saying the cat litter game was eye opening because of how bad the playing surface was? Then why wasn't the 1984 Nickel Trophy game eye opening? Why wasn't the 1994 playoff game at Pitt State eye opening? I know why, because the Bison won those two games. Can't you see the double standard there? And, for what it's worth, the case could be made that Bison fans in the '80s (and Sioux fans in 2001) enjoyed experiences at the D2 level that they'll never see in I-AA. I-AA isn't a bad level of play, and while it is technically a step up from D2 it just seems rather bland compared to the old NCC. Watching the Sioux take on the likes of Cal Davis and Southern Utah the past couple of seasons just didn't do for me what the old matchups vs. UNC and UNO used to. ? There's a lot of words to describe what I've seen in these Big Sky games and in the MVFC. Bland isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Not stuck in the past but trying to get BACK to a better place in time? ?? Sounds like the title of a bad country song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 That's ridiculous. So there were 9 quality players that in previous years would have been on NDSU's roster that are spread out among the other schools. But what you fail to recognize is that there were also 9 quality players that in previous years would have been on UND's roster that are spread out among the other schools. There were 9 quality players that in previous years would have been on SDSU's roster that are spread out among the other schools. There were 9 quality players that in previous years would have been on USD's roster that are spread out among the other schools. There were 9 quality players that in previous years would have been on UNC's roster that are spread out among the other schools. There were 9 quality players that in previous years would have been on UNO's roster that are spread out among the other schools. Only a fool would believe that the scholarship reductions hurt NDSU while helping all of the other teams. It was exactly the same for every team. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? Even with your explanation you are describing a situation that causes a leveling of the playing field. Here is a less complex example. If the FBS decided they would cut scholarships across the board, some guys that would have gone to LSU or Alabama would end up at Minnesota let's say. Would Minnesota have a worse, better, or same chance of beating LSU with players that were in previous years good enough to be on LSU's roster, but due to scholarship cuts ended up at Minnesota. Take the last nine scholarship players off the best teams and they are better than the last nine scholarship teams off of the weaker teams. So you literally take the worst nine scholarship players off of Minnesota's roster and replace them with the worst nine on LSU's roster. Who gets better and who gets worse? Scholarship reductions hurt the best teams the most and at that point in history NDSU was head and shoulders above everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Actually, NDSU is the only one of the four that has done better in I-AA than they were doing in D2 towards the end of their time there. Any idiot can see that. What an intellectual way to get even with the NCAA, refuse to call the division FCS. They took away your nickname, so you won't use their nomenclature. It's time to move on and quit living in the past, it only makes you look (more) foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'll bet after the four team playoff in the D-1 Bowl division begins, it will expand quickly to eight. I wouldn't be surprised that in 10 years the FBS and BCS will be 2 separate divisions with the FCS being the 3rd tier in DI football. Especially if more teams become a Boise State and challenge for a title but is denied due to their crappy division (MAC, SB, CUSA, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I wouldn't be surprised that in 10 years the FBS and BCS will be 2 separate divisions with the FCS being the 3rd tier in DI football. Especially if more teams become a Boise State and challenge for a title but is denied due to their crappy division (MAC, SB, CUSA, etc.. If it goes three tiers you can bet the Big Sky would move up to the second tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 If it goes three tiers you can bet the Big Sky would move up to the second tier The whole BSC or certain teams. Could UNC or Idaho State survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 What an intellectual way to get even with the NCAA, refuse to call the division FCS. They took away your nickname, so you won't use their nomenclature. It's time to move on and quit living in the past, it only makes you look (more) foolish. Even the biggest college football nerds I know refer to FCS as "Division One Double-A". Just because Congress passed a law creating FBS and FCS doesn't mean it's blasphemous to be old-school. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Even the biggest college football nerds I know refer to FCS as "Division One Double-A". Just because Congress passed a law creating FBS and FCS doesn't mean it's blasphemous to be old-school. Congress? And here I always thought it was the NCAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The whole BSC or certain teams. Could UNC or Idaho State survive? You'd think it'd be the entire conference, they wouldn't be the only terrible teams in that subdivision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Congress? And here I always thought it was the NCAA. I was being facetious...but check out Coach Bohl's comments from this past August here... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/wires/08/27/2060.ap.fbc.fcs.moniker.makeover.1st.ld.writethru.0853/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 You'd think it'd be the entire conference, they wouldn't be the only terrible teams in that subdivision They may not win more games, but you would think they would have to travel less for OOC games. I'd imagine the MWC would also be in that 2nd tier, so there are a lot more busable games for both of those teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 If it goes three tiers you can bet the Big Sky would move up to the second tier http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc12.htm Tier I: 1-7 Tier II: 8-16 Tier III: The rest A lot can and will change of course.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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