Fetch Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 But all the whining about the Summit League & to me it was a crucial Blow, to the fall of support for the Sioux name & now it's not that big of a deal ? UND Admin. sure woosed out I will forever hate the Summit League someone one tell me why I'm wrong about this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlsiouxfan Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 But all the whining about the Summit League & to me it was a crucial Blow, to the fall of support for the Sioux name & now it's not that big of a deal ? UND Admin. sure woosed out I will forever hate the Summit League someone one tell me why I'm wrong about this ? What exactly do you mean about it not being a big deal? UND's application for the Summit League was not even being considered due to the Sioux nickname. Now that it's been retired the Summit has announced a site visit which will almost certainly end up in an invitation to the conference that will become a future home for all of our sports except for football and hockey. Further with the the Summit and MVFC studying the possibily of forming a joint football conference it will most likely end up providing us a home for football as well. I'm not going to tell you if you're right or wrong for hating the Summit League but you can't expect us that actually support UND athletic programs other than hockey to accept the future success of our sports being impaired due to the lack of conference affiliation caused by the nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan29 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 What exactly do you mean about it not being a big deal? UND's application for the Summit League was not even being considered due to the Sioux nickname. Now that it's been retired the Summit has announced a site visit which will almost certainly end up in an invitation to the conference that will become a future home for all of our sports except for football and hockey. Further with the the Summit and MVFC studying the possibily of forming a joint football conference it will most likely end up providing us a home for football as well. I'm not going to tell you if you're right or wrong for hating the Summit League but you can't expect us that actually support UND athletic programs other than hockey to accept the future success of our sports being impaired due to the lack of conference affiliation caused by the nickname. Hey, the Summit League just wanted a decision on whether we were keeping our identity as the Fighting Sioux or not. They didn't say that we had to get rid of our name/logo for a chance to get into the Summit League. The State Higher Ed board, President Kelley and AD Faison decided not to wait until the deadline was over for Standing Rock to do something and they chose incorrectly. Plus we can't even compete in post season for another 2 years. Funny that football isn't even included in the Summit League - the number 2 money maker for UND. I do support UND athletic programs INCLUDING hockey. Believe me, the issue is not dead at Standing Rock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Hey, the Summit League just wanted a decision on whether we were keeping our identity as the Fighting Sioux or not. They didn't say that we had to get rid of our name/logo for a chance to get into the Summit League. The State Higher Ed board, President Kelley and AD Faison decided not to wait until the deadline was over for Standing Rock to do something and they chose incorrectly. Plus we can't even compete in post season for another 2 years. Funny that football isn't even included in the Summit League - the number 2 money maker for UND. I do support UND athletic programs INCLUDING hockey. Believe me, the issue is not dead at Standing Rock! It's true that the Summit only wanted a decision. But they wanted it as soon as possible. The chances of getting the nickname approved by the Tribal Council at Standing Rock has always been slim. And this spring it reached a point where the time it would take to approve the name, even if the Tribal Council was interested in doing so, would make it very difficult to get things done by the deadline. Since the Tribal Council had no interest in allowing approval of the nickname the SBoHE decided not to waste any more time or take any more chances that the Summit would get tired of waiting. They decided to do what most people predicted would happen when the settlement was announced. If you go back and look you will see that very few people believed there was a chance that the name would be approved, especially by Standing Rock. Why would you throw away a chance to get the majority of the Athletic Department aligned with a conference just because the football team would not be part of the conference. You may have noticed that there aren't a lot of potential conferences available for UND, and that football isn't always part of a conferences offering but there are several football-only conferences. One of the problems for the Athletic Department is the travel expense to send all the non-revenue sports to both coasts for games. Getting those sports in a conference which will cut travel significantly is very important to the bottom line. That's why it is so important to the University to get as many sports as possible into a conference that works even if football wasn't part of the mix. It wasn't about making money it was about saving money. As far as not being eligible for 2 years, that is approximately when UND would enter conference play based on the current schedule. As it stands now, and if UND is approved for the Summit, UND would probably enter conference play for the 2012-2013 season. If UND had waited until after the deadline to get the process started they would push the timeline back yet another year and would have to compete as an independent their first year as playoff eligible. Don't you think that a large group of people would be complaining about that, UND still not being in a conference in any sport during their first year eligible? The SBoHE needed to make a move soon so they did. It sucks to give up the Fighting Sioux nickname but life can often suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Hey, the Summit League just wanted a decision on whether we were keeping our identity as the Fighting Sioux or not. They didn't say that we had to get rid of our name/logo for a chance to get into the Summit League. Actually, the official public statement from the Douple and the Summit was "resolved". But according to an interview this spring with a ND state official. "Resolved" was clarified to meaning "Changed". So, the Summit did not make it official that they wanted a name change. But, officials had a very clear understanding of what the Summit League wanted. Thus, the Summit League does not rate very high with me. If a conference can not be open about it wishes, it speaks volumes and the leadership and why would you want to join? Not a good why to start a relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Actually, the official public statement from the Douple and the Summit was "resolved". But according to an interview this spring with a ND state official. "Resolved" was clarified to meaning "Changed". So, the Summit did not make it official that they wanted a name change. But, officials had a very clear understanding of what the Summit League wanted. Thus, the Summit League does not rate very high with me. If a conference can not be open about it wishes, it speaks volumes and the leadership and why would you want to join? Not a good why to start a relationship. That is what I have heard as well. Changed was the result the summit wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Hey, the Summit League just wanted a decision on whether we were keeping our identity as the Fighting Sioux or not. They didn't say that we had to get rid of our name/logo for a chance to get into the Summit League. The State Higher Ed board, President Kelley and AD Faison decided not to wait until the deadline was over for Standing Rock to do something and they chose incorrectly. Plus we can't even compete in post season for another 2 years. Funny that football isn't even included in the Summit League - the number 2 money maker for UND. I do support UND athletic programs INCLUDING hockey. Believe me, the issue is not dead at Standing Rock! UND administration sold their souls for some frickin magic beans...this is Robert O'Kelleys legacy...all the UND mucky mucks will defer and BLAME it on the SBoHE, but not one of OUR leaders made a stand to keep the name...what a bunch of gutless turds...Tom Clifford is rolling over in his grave right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yababy8 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 the Summit has announced a site visit Sweet the Summit is coming to town! We should invite them to breakfast at the Village Inn and buy them some pancakes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 UND administration sold their souls for some frickin magic beans...this is Robert O'Kelleys legacy...all the UND mucky mucks will defer and BLAME it on the SBoHE, but not one of OUR leaders made a stand to keep the name...what a bunch of gutless turds...Tom Clifford is rolling over in his grave right now... First, his name is Robert O. Kelley. Next, Tom Clifford actually stated that if he couldn't get the tribal councils to support the name even he'd have to change it. Folks, the name was dead the minute the settlement agreement called for *both* Sioux tribes in ND having to approve it. The chance of Standing Rock approving it has never been good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB#11 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 UND administration sold their souls for some frickin magic beans...this is Robert O'Kelleys legacy...all the UND mucky mucks will defer and BLAME it on the SBoHE, but not one of OUR leaders made a stand to keep the name...what a bunch of gutless turds...Tom Clifford is rolling over in his grave right now... As well as Ralph Engelstad. Where are the men today to stand up to all this PC CRAP? It's a cancer that's spreading throughout this country like wildfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the green team Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Oh boy....here we go again, I thought that some on here would eventually realize that the nickname issue & retirement has been really a confluence of many things, and issues (1st & foremost the SR Tribal Council) that contributed to it's demise with the Summit & our administration being really not one of the issues. BUT since we need something to blame it seems that the Summit and administrators are the easy targets and so I say commence with it.... as I can see that absolutely no amount of reason will make a difference. So many people here seem to have all these wonderful answers yet when I visit with people in athletics or the foundation I ask if anyone has approached them with these wonderful solutions and they don't seem to exist. If you have the answer march down to the offices and provide, because if it truly can save our name then I am all for it. However I'm not going to blame the conference or administration for the name issue, I guess I just can't be persuaded that its where the blame should lie, and I know that I am in the minority here---but oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Oh boy....here we go again, I thought that some on here would eventually realize that the nickname issue & retirement has been really a confluence of many things, and issues (1st & foremost the SR Tribal Council) that contributed to it's demise with the Summit & our administration being really not one of the issues. BUT since we need something to blame it seems that the Summit and administrators are the easy targets and so I say commence with it.... as I can see that absolutely no amount of reason will make a difference. So many people here seem to have all these wonderful answers yet when I visit with people in athletics or the foundation I ask if anyone has approached them with these wonderful solutions and they don't seem to exist. If you have the answer march down to the offices and provide, because if it truly can save our name then I am all for it. However I'm not going to blame the conference or administration for the name issue, I guess I just can't be persuaded that its where the blame should lie, and I know that I am in the minority here---but oh well. I blame 2 groups of people: The NCAA, and the Standing Rock Tribal Council in that order. The NCAA for making that stupid list, and requiring UND not any other school but UND must have 2 tribal approvals. Second I blame the Standing Rock Tribal Council for not allowing their people to have a right to vote. Just look at Spirit Lake and I think that is the reason the SR didn't let their people vote they knew how the vote would go. As for the Summit its not their fault, the SBoHE its not their fault, Robert Kelley its not his fault. If the SR voted against the name people would have been fine. If the NCAA didn't have a list people would have been fine, if the NCAA told people on that list they must have ONE tribal approval people would have been fine. But its over and we never have to worry about Indian Nicknames associated with UND again. Lets see what they blame all their problems on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 But all the whining about the Summit League & to me it was a crucial Blow, to the fall of support for the Sioux name & now it's not that big of a deal ? UND Admin. sure woosed out I will forever hate the Summit League someone one tell me why I'm wrong about this ? Summit League never had any authority to change the nickname. UND admin wanted the nickname to change and so they used the Summit League as an excuse to do so. Now you're using the Summit League as an excuse to hate something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yababy8 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I blame 2 groups of people: The NCAA, and the Standing Rock Tribal Council in that order. The NCAA for making that stupid list, and requiring UND not any other school but UND must have 2 tribal approvals. Second I blame the Standing Rock Tribal Council for not allowing their people to have a right to vote. Just look at Spirit Lake and I think that is the reason the SR didn't let their people vote they knew how the vote would go. As for the Summit its not their fault, the SBoHE its not their fault, Robert Kelley its not his fault. If the SR voted against the name people would have been fine. If the NCAA didn't have a list people would have been fine, if the NCAA told people on that list they must have ONE tribal approval people would have been fine. But its over and we never have to worry about Indian Nicknames associated with UND again. Lets see what they blame all their problems on now. You are correct about everything you posted here. But Just for the record, it is only over because we are all going to let it be over. The will of the people is always realized just as long as they continue to have will. (only exception to this murder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You are correct about everything you posted here. But Just for the record, it is only over because we are all going to let it be over. The will of the people is always realized just as long as they continue to have will. (only exception to this murder) The people in this case have voted to the tune of 10-4. Whether or not that is truly the will of the people has been a matter of much debate here, which I have nothing further to add. The costs greatly outweigh the benefits to pursue this any further. You know who I feel the worst for? Archie Fool Bear and those of his mindset. That being said, I wish he'd move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Kenny, Michael, and their "Brothers" had this figured out long, long ago ... "Sioux", she's gone. What we believe we created it "never made her think twice". http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/doobie+brothers/what+a+fool+believes_20042480.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yababy8 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The costs greatly outweigh the benefits to pursue this any further. You know who I feel the worst for? Archie Fool Bear and those of his mindset. That being said, I wish he'd move on. I'm interested to know your cost vs benifit analysis on this. particularly the costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You are correct about everything you posted here. But Just for the record, it is only over because we are all going to let it be over. The will of the people is always realized just as long as they continue to have will. (only exception to this murder) Short of a coup, pitchforks in hand, your will as a commoner is more or less irrelevant. Those in power are the ones who control what happens. It's always been that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted August 12, 2010 Author Share Posted August 12, 2010 Blame there is plenty to go around I just think the Summit situation gave the SBOHE & UND Admin. the impetus to divide & conquer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Sweet the Summit is coming to town! We should invite them to breakfast at the Village Inn and buy them some pancakes! The Village Inn is now a IHOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 Goon go tell mpls to stick his head in the south side of a Bison going north Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Goon go tell mpls to stick his head in the south side of a Bison going north Fetch, I have come to the realization that MPLSBisonFan isn't worth any of our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Fetch, I have come to the realization that MPLSBisonFan isn't worth any of our time. Exactly. The issue is not over, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yababy8 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 . Those in power are the ones who control what happens. It's always been that way. Not always, just since the invention of the printing press/media. People only are controlled when they are convinced that it is their best interests.. ya know maslow's hiearchy of needs and all. If people as a group really want something to happen it always will, unless like I said they get convinced to let it go or they get killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux. Great tradition, great name. But Herb Brooks had it right once again...."The name on the front is a hell of lot more important than the name on the back." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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