Penn State 'close" to adding hockey

[fargosioux]

Hey if you'd only won like 4 of your last 15 against them (haven't checked the real numbers), you'd be trying to forget UND too.

4 of the last 18 to be precise.

[mksioux]

From Kevin Pates' Duluth News Tribune article, WCHA could lose Gophers and Badgers:

I know when I think of what big rivalry games Minnesota might lose under a BTHC, UMD is the first that jumps to mind

Due to political implications in Minnesota, annual non-conference series between Minnesota and UMD, St Cloud, and Mankato are more likely to continue than Minnesota-UND. The Gophers will likely still schedule UND, but perhaps not an a yearly basis.

[nodakvindy]

Due to political implications in Minnesota, annual non-conference series between Minnesota and UMD, St Cloud, and Mankato are more likely to continue than Minnesota-UND. The Gophers will likely still schedule UND, but perhaps not an a yearly basis.

Minnesota can also strong arm all those schools into 2 for 1s or even perhaps finally start a beanpot-like tourney at the X.

I would hope UND would only except an alternating series, every year or possibly an annual home and home.

In a Big Ten world, it will be key for UND to be in a smaller conference so there are more non-conference dates available. That's why I think a conference of UND, DU, CC, UMD, Miami and Notre Dame is ideal. I prefer UMD over UNO because the Iron Range is fertile recruiting ground, Duluth is the longest rival and will have the best facility. WIth six teams you get a full round robin and still have 12 non-conference games excluding exemptions. That means you can frequently go 8 home and 4 away, pocketing a lot of extra dough. For the playoffs, you can do best of three series in the quarters, semis and finals, and you could have a pretty sizable gate. With a smaller league you could easily get four to the six teams in the NCAAs as long as they do well in non-conference play.

[siouxweet]

Due to political implications in Minnesota, annual non-conference series between Minnesota and UMD, St Cloud, and Mankato are more likely to continue than Minnesota-UND. The Gophers will likely still schedule UND, but perhaps not an a yearly basis.

with the new 12 team wcha, our playing of minn and wisc was going to decrease anyways, so we still may continue to play them at least one series a year if not two some years. the thing with the gophs and badgers possibly moving to a new bthc is that there will be no "gimmee" conference games for them anymore, say like against tech or anchorage.

[tnt]

with the new 12 team wcha, our playing of minn and wisc was going to decrease anyways, so we still may continue to play them at least one series a year if not two some years. the thing with the gophs and badgers possibly moving to a new bthc is that there will be no "gimmee" conference games for them anymore, say like against tech or anchorage.

That may be true, but it sure puts a lot of pressure on those teams that would be left not to lose to those teams and make sure they have a winning percentage against non-conference to have at least comparable pairwise numbers. The WCHA could go from getting 5 or 6 teams in to 2 or 3, if indeed this happened, which I am not convinced.

[siouxweet]

That may be true, but it sure puts a lot of pressure on those teams that would be left not to lose to those teams and make sure they have a winning percentage against non-conference to have at least comparable pairwise numbers. The WCHA could go from getting 5 or 6 teams in to 2 or 3, if indeed this happened, which I am not convinced.

I can see the playoff field eventually being upped to 20 teams and in the "old" wcha that would exist und,du,cc,umd,scsu would be in the mix most every year for a ncaa playoff spot.

[brianvf]

I can see the playoff field eventually being upped to 20 teams and in the "old" wcha that would exist und,du,cc,umd,scsu would be in the mix most every year for a ncaa playoff spot.

I doubt we'd see a 20-team NCAA playoff field unless we passed well over 75 D1 teams.

A 16-team field with only 59 D1 schools is already pushing it. For awhile, people were talking that they might go back to a 12-team field if schools kept threatening to drop their men's hockey programs.

[Stromer]

Everyone is upset about the idea of Minnesota and Wisconsin ditching the rest of the WCHA for the Big Ten hockey conference, but no one seems to mind us doing the same thing essentially by forming a new conference with DU, CC, the other ND, and Miami (and others). Why would we get a pass for ditching the little guys when that's exactly what we're mad about with the Big Ten schools?

I for one am not mad about it. It's a business decision for the Big Ten schools. And if they decide to leave, UND should not feel the need to stay in the WCHA as well. It has to be about business for us as well.

[tnt]

So if this did become a reality, would the NCAA give hosting West regional sites to members from the same league or do they try to find an alternative that would allow opposing leagues a chance to host? Minnesota could lose a bit by losing out on more regionals and hosting the league tournament every year. You know Michigan is going to want their fair share of regionals and such.

[star2city]

Roman Augustovicz

Each team would still have to schedule an additional 12-14 games. For Minnesota, that would almost have to include a series against North Dakota, a huge Gophers rival, and several other Minnesota teams.

[dagies]

Hey if you'd only won like 4 of your last 15 against them (haven't checked the real numbers), you'd be trying to forget UND too.

If you look at some of those games, maybe MN didn't play in them either.

[jimdahl]

Penn State receives $88m to jumpstart hockey programs/ -- InsidePittsburghSports.com

The school I'm told has received an $88 million dollar donation to jumpstart the programs. The money will be allocated towards a new facility and scholarships.

Inside Pittsburgh Sports has learned, $75 million will go to the new arena and $13 million will go to scholarships for both programs.

Penn State is highly expected to join the CCHA conference and many inside the industry expect the school to have long-term success with both programs.

I haven't followed this thread daily, but I remember star2city hinting at this earlier -- is it possible for Penn State to join the CCHA, and the Big Ten's desire to declare a Big Ten champion be satisfied in parallel with other formal conference affiliation? Like the Ivies? That is, could each school remain in their respective conference, but also be required to play each out-of-conference Big Ten team every season?

[siouxhockeyfan11]

Penn State receives $88m to jumpstart hockey programs/ -- InsidePittsburghSports.com

I haven't followed this thread daily, but I remember star2city hinting at this earlier -- is it possible for Penn State to join the CCHA, and the Big Ten's desire to declare a Big Ten champion be satisfied in parallel with other formal conference affiliation? Like the Ivies? That is, could each school remain in their respective conference, but also be required to play each out-of-conference Big Ten team every season?

[Blackheart]

The BTHC will kill college hockey in the Midwest...the Goofs will be happy because they will have to play fewer games against North Dakota, DU, Duluth, etc... The BADgers? Who cares? Let Alvarez fill out his schedule against Ferris State and Bowling Green...they will schedule 4 games against the Badgers and all will be played at Kohl Center...

[brianvf]

Brad's take on it:

http://undhockey.areavoices.com/2010/09/15/how-appealing-is-big-ten-hockey/

[ScottM]

Brad's take on it:

http://undhockey.areavoices.com/2010/09/15/how-appealing-is-big-ten-hockey/

If Minnesota has to fill out 14-16 nonconference games, it is going to have to travel a lot more often, because I can

[sioux7]

So if this did become a reality, would the NCAA give hosting West regional sites to members from the same league or do they try to find an alternative that would allow opposing leagues a chance to host? Minnesota could lose a bit by losing out on more regionals and hosting the league tournament every year. You know Michigan is going to want their fair share of regionals and such.

The NCAA and Minnesota are one in the same....it''s all about image with those people. They just want the prestige that they think they can get by creating a Big 10 conference. Let them do it. The Big 10 sucks at every other sport anyways! I mean really. At what sport are they good at......other than hockey once in a while?

[tnt]

The NCAA and Minnesota are one in the same....it''s all about image with those people. They just want the prestige that they think they can get by creating a Big 10 conference. Let them do it. The Big 10 sucks at every other sport anyways! I mean really. At what sport are they good at......other than hockey once in a while?

I think Minnesota has been more reluctant than Wisconsin in this endeavor. I think the NCAA needs to get out of the business of legislating "hostile and abusive" and look out for the best interest of a niche sport like hockey. College hockey can't afford to lose any teams, as a few are already on the bubble. You would think the NCAA would get out ahead on something that could destroy that fabric that is woven so loosely ... wait, were talking about the NCAA here -- my bad!

[Blackheart]

The NCAA and Minnesota are one in the same....it''s all about image with those people. They just want the prestige that they think they can get by creating a Big 10 conference. Let them do it. The Big 10 sucks at every other sport anyways! I mean really. At what sport are they good at......other than hockey once in a while?

I heard the Gofers have a pretty good football team this year...

[darell1976]

I think UND hockey will be fine if not better. We could play different non-conference opponents maybe different Big 10 teams (Ohio St, Penn St) get the other UND team to play us and its not like teams don't want to play us we have the best hockey arena in the country and teams will be fighting each other to play in it. (and lose to us )

[darell1976]

I heard the Gofers have a pretty good football team this year...

They do if they play teams without the word Dakota in it.

[jimdahl]

If Minnesota has to fill out 14-16 nonconference games, it is going to have to travel a lot more often, because I can’t imagine schools like UND, Denver, Colorado College, etc., agreeing to play Minnesota without a return trip guaranteed. So, Minnesota and Wisconsin will either have to play extremely watered-down schedules or else travel for nonconference.

I don't think anyone else has raised that issue, here or on USCHO. Outsized travel schedules could hit hockey's bottom line, and men's hockey tends to be a money maker at Minnesota and Wisco.

I don't understand -- why would the number of non-conference games necessarily shift Minnesota away from ~60% home games? Say Minnesota was part of a BTHC, and decided it needed to play UND to fill out the schedule. If UND would only agree to a home/away series in consecutive years with Minnesota, as speculated, half Minnesota's games would be travel. That's pretty much what the WCHA currently mandates, teams play home and away series (except for the missing series and the whole natural rivals thingy, which I think also evens out).

Or is the theory that UND getting non-conference home/away series out of Minnesota would lead the Ferris St and Union's of the world to demand the same?

[mksioux]

Penn State receives $88m to jumpstart hockey programs/ -- InsidePittsburghSports.com

I haven't followed this thread daily, but I remember star2city hinting at this earlier -- is it possible for Penn State to join the CCHA, and the Big Ten's desire to declare a Big Ten champion be satisfied in parallel with other formal conference affiliation? Like the Ivies? That is, could each school remain in their respective conference, but also be required to play each out-of-conference Big Ten team every season? à la the DQ cup.

I think that is a remote possibility, but the WCHA and CCHA would have to reduce conference games to accommodate the parallel Big Ten league. As it stands, there's no way Minnesota and Wisconsin could play 28 WCHA games and a full Big Ten schedule. There aren't enough games. I can possibly see a scenario playing out where Minnesota and Wisconsin agree to stay in the WCHA if the conference schedule is reduced to playing each team only twice per year (22 conference games). Then there would probably be enough flexibility to allow them to play some sort of Big Ten schedule and still have enough room for a couple non-conference series.

EDIT: This, of course, assumes that the other four Big Ten schools want to play in parallel leagues. My guess is that unless all of the Big Ten schools sign off on parallel leagues, the Big Ten would dictate a full fledged BTHC.

[mksioux]

I don't understand -- why would the number of non-conference games necessarily shift Minnesota away from ~60% home games? Say Minnesota was part of a BTHC, and decided it needed to play UND to fill out the schedule. If UND would only agree to a home/away series in consecutive years with Minnesota, as speculated, half Minnesota's games would be travel. That's pretty much what the WCHA currently mandates, teams play home and away series (except for the missing series and the whole natural rivals thingy, which I think also evens out).

Or is the theory that UND getting non-conference home/away series out of Minnesota would lead the Ferris St and Union's of the world to demand the same?

I agree. I don't think the overall number of travel games would increase for Minnesota. It might result in one or two more flight trips rather than bus trips, but I think Minnesota already flies everywhere except St. Cloud, Duluth, and Mankato, so that added expense would be minimal.

Minnesota would still be able to dictate its non-conference schedule. They could schedule home-and-homes with the WCHA teams of their choosing, and still bring in home-only cupcakes. They would still basically do whatever they want.

[mikejm]

I wonder what leaving the WCHA (and the resulting schedule) would do to Minnesota's Strength of Schedule component when it comes to Pairwise? If they fill their non-BTHC with cupcakes, they might find themselves woefully deficient.