UND, NDSU, & the Legislature

[sultan]

Gene Taylor has made it EXTREMELY clear he has no interest in playing the game. He keeps coming up with various twists on why they can't play the game. When the President's of the two institutions are able to come to terms the game will happen. Faison doesn't need to kiss Taylor's butt. Taylor as much as said he would only play UND in Fargo. He said their non conference games have to be large payoff games. Apparently the game will never happen then. UND would NEVER just play that game in Fargo. Taylor and Chapman need to wake up an smell the roses. Apparently they just can't see the big picture. There is a lot MORE THAN MONEY to be gained in the playing of that game. If NDSU has a couple more disappointing .500 seasons they won't have to worry about sellouts in Fargo anymore. They will be begging for the Bison Sioux rivalry. When the Bison were 2 and 8 a few years ago they could shoot a cannon through the Fargodome. With the talent NDSU lost this year and were only a .500 team they could be very ordinary next year. I'm starting to think they truly are afraid to play us. If they lost they would have a lot of crow to eat. Bring them on.

Gene Taylor said today that they have been selling out all their games for 2 or 3 years now so they don't need the game. First off I don't think they have been selling out all their games for 2 or 3 years. Of course sometimes they have sell outs with 16,000 and sometimes they have sell outs with 19,000. There have been games recently where their own fans have said there were 3 or 4 thousand empty seats and yet it is reported to be a sellout. But the classic from Gene Taylor now is that the rivalry is to negative so they just don't want to pursue the games. Their fans just don't appreciate the negativity. Does anybody ever remember Bison fans being negative or doing hostile or abusive chants? Does he really think anybody really beleives all the excuses he keeps throwing out there. Whether it is good or bad the negative feelings by fans from both sides is exactly why it is such a great rivalry. Gene Taylor doesn't realize that is one of the components of a rivalry. The side sides aren't suppose to be in love with each other. I wonder what the next excuse will be that Taylor uses. Gene Taylor just doesn't get the big picture. He said there schedule is set till 2012 in football. I wonder if it is. There is a lot of talk out there that they are still looking for games.

[MplsBison]

If I were still a taxpayer up there I'd be pissed. Surely there are more important matters to spend time and energy on than this? Rome is freaking burning...but I guess times are really that good up there....

It's been what, a day since the bill was announced, and already this is the most overused clich

[bincitysioux]

Let me preface this post by saying that I do think it is foolish for the legislature to get involved with mandating a football game between these two schools. But..................

If the legislature really wants to get involved they are going about it the wrong way. When this goes to committee and to the House floor, there are going to be arguments about the economic impact of this game for each school, both direct impact via gate revenue minus travel costs, and indirect impact via retail sales in whichever city the games are played each year, and how it would be fiscally responsible for each school to play due to the proximity of one another. Along with debates about how it will hurt NDSU, only help UND, and in general how the people of the state long for this game. That is all fine and dandy, but it will go nowhere on those arguments.

Yearning for the good old days of the rivalry aside, if the state legislature wants to throw themselves into this on the basis that it would be fiscally positive for both universities, they should have left the football game alone and instead introduced a bill that would have required Noth Dakota and NDSU to compete in every sport OTHER than football. Football is fine at both schools. Both schools set new attendance records last year. There is little to be gained for either university other than bragging rights by playing on the grid-iron. The only possible benefit I can see is one extra televised game for the schools.

If the state feels they need to act for the betterment of both schools they should require basketball, baseball, volleyball, soccer, and softball games between the two schools. That is where the real economic impact would be felt. Men's basketball attendance at UND is in dire straights this season. Women's basketball attendance at NDSU is in dire straights this season. NDSU men's basketball had a home-and-home with Northern Arizona this season. Would it not be more prudent to have a home-and-home with North Dakota just 70 miles away? North Dakota women's basketball has a home-and-home with Seatte this season. Would it not be more prudent to have a home-and-home with NDSU just 70 miles away? The last two basetball games between the two played in GF drew 8,900 and 7,200. In Fargo the last two drew 6,500 and 5,000. At this point, a North Dakota-NDSU basketball doubleheader in the Ralph would probably draw close to 10,000. It would surely fill the 6,000 seat BSA in Fargo. Who knows what it would draw in Fargo if they threw the hardwood down in the Fargodome? Then don't get me started on the "non-revenue" sports.................I can understand a state mandate for every sport EXCEPT football.

Having said all that, the more I hear Gene Taylor speak over the last month, it would put a bit of a smile on my face to see this legislation regarding a football game pass. He continues to search for reasons not to play North Dakota. Twice today on the radio he reiterated the Summit League stance of not scheduling North Dakota due to the nickname and how the legislature is not taking that into consideration, apparently unaware that his school's football team is not a member of the Summit League, and despite the fact that several Summit schools continue to schedule North Dakota in a variety of sports. IMO, he has lost alot of credibility over the last few weeks, and it is apparent that it is not his decision when it comes to scheduling any type of contest with North Dakota.

Also, I don't think this legislation will pass this time, but it could in 2011 if the schools don't come to an agreement by then. As several posters have indicated, this is not unprecedented. Iowa, Kenucky, South Carolina, etc., etc. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe in Iowa that the state mandate requires all DI institutions play each other in basketball, including Drake which is private?

[sultan]

Let me preface this post by saying that I do think it is foolish for the legislature to get involved with mandating a football game between these two schools. But..................

If the legislature really wants to get involved they are going about it the wrong way. When this goes to committee and to the House floor, there are going to be arguments about the economic impact of this game for each school, both direct impact via gate revenue minus travel costs, and indirect impact via retail sales in whichever city the games are played each year, and how it would be fiscally responsible for each school to play due to the proximity of one another. Along with debates about how it will hurt NDSU, only help UND, and in general how the people of the state long for this game. That is all fine and dandy, but it will go nowhere on those arguments.

Yearning for the good old days of the rivalry aside, if the state legislature wants to throw themselves into this on the basis that it would be fiscally positive for both universities, they should have left the football game alone and instead introduced a bill that would have required Noth Dakota and NDSU to compete in every sport OTHER than football. Football is fine at both schools. Both schools set new attendance records last year. There is little to be gained for either university other than bragging rights by playing on the grid-iron. The only possible benefit I can see is one extra televised game for the schools.

If the state feels they need to act for the betterment of both schools they should require basketball, baseball, volleyball, soccer, and softball games between the two schools. That is where the real economic impact would be felt. Men's basketball attendance at UND is in dire straights this season. Women's basketball attendance at NDSU is in dire straights this season. NDSU men's basketball had a home-and-home with Northern Arizona this season. Would it not be more prudent to have a home-and-home with North Dakota just 70 miles away? North Dakota women's basketball has a home-and-home with Seatte this season. Would it not be more prudent to have a home-and-home with NDSU just 70 miles away? The last two basetball games between the two played in GF drew 8,900 and 7,200. In Fargo the last two drew 6,500 and 5,000. At this point, a North Dakota-NDSU basketball doubleheader in the Ralph would probably draw close to 10,000. It would surely fill the 6,000 seat BSA in Fargo. Who knows what it would draw in Fargo if they threw the hardwood down in the Fargodome? Then don't get me started on the "non-revenue" sports.................I can understand a state mandate for every sport EXCEPT football.

Having said all that, the more I hear Gene Taylor speak over the last month, it would put a bit of a smile on my face to see this legislation regarding a football game pass. He continues to search for reasons not to play North Dakota. Twice today on the radio he reiterated the Summit League stance of not scheduling North Dakota due to the nickname and how the legislature is not taking that into consideration, apparently unaware that his school's football team is not a member of the Summit League, and despite the fact that several Summit schools continue to schedule North Dakota in a variety of sports. IMO, he has lost alot of credibility over the last few weeks, and it is apparent that it is not his decision when it comes to scheduling any type of contest with North Dakota.

Also, I don't think this legislation will pass this time, but it could in 2011 if the schools don't come to an agreement by then. As several posters have indicated, this is not unprecedented. Iowa, Kenucky, South Carolina, etc., etc. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe in Iowa that the state mandate requires all DI institutions play each other in basketball, including Drake which is private?

That is even further evidence on how silly Taylor is starting to look on this subject.

[Matt]

The lack of consistency in Taylor's answers to these scheduling questions tells me he is just saying whatever he needs to in order to placate the media at that moment, until another day, and another question. That's the behavior of a man who believes he is playing from a position of strength. The answers don't seem as important as moving beyond the questions. Chapman obviously has his back on this as well. Are they right? Do they need a TV game? They have some already. Trouble selling tickets? Nope. Public support for not playing UND? That may be the only card UND has left to play here. Obviously the general public wants to see them play, but the early returns on legislative intervention is pretty one sided. Turning public opinion against NDSU may be the only option to make this happen, but how to do that?

And by the way, how did we get from the "we don't need NDSU" approach (you know who you are), to hoping public pressure changes their mind? Ultimately, I'd like to see the games played, but I'm getting to the point where my pride is telling me I want to see UND get through the transition and into a conference and then schedule NDSU on even ground.

[bincitysioux]

The lack of consistency in Taylor's answers to these scheduling questions tells me he is just saying whatever he needs to in order to placate the media at that moment, until another day, and another question. That's the behavior of a man who believes he is playing from a position of strength. The answers don't seem as important as moving beyond the questions. Chapman obviously has his back on this as well.

I firmly believe that Taylor has absolutely no input whatsover when it comes to scheduling North Dakota in ANY type of athletic event.

[siouxhockeyfan11]

The lack of consistency in Taylor's answers to these scheduling questions tells me he is just saying whatever he needs to in order to placate the media at that moment, until another day, and another question. That's the behavior of a man who believes he is playing from a position of strength. The answers don't seem as important as moving beyond the questions. Chapman obviously has his back on this as well. Are they right? Do they need a TV game? They have some already. Trouble selling tickets? Nope. Public support for not playing UND? That may be the only card UND has left to play here. Obviously the general public wants to see them play, but the early returns on legislative intervention is pretty one sided. Turning public opinion against NDSU may be the only option to make this happen, but how to do that?

And by the way, how did we get from the "we don't need NDSU" approach (you know who you are), to hoping public pressure changes their mind? Ultimately, I'd like to see the games played, but I'm getting to the point where my pride is telling me I want to see UND get through the transition and into a conference and then schedule NDSU on even ground.

Personally I love the even ground concept to but as is reality right now any game against an FCS would be way better then playing division III football teams. I have a burning dislike for the bison that is only surpassed by the gophers and if we played NDSU in volleyball i'd go watch. Not sure where I'm going with this post but I want the rivallry renewed and if we had to play underdog against them in football a win would be all the much sweeter and a loss well we just wouldnt lose

[DI IN FARGO]

And by the way, how did we get from the "we don't need NDSU" approach (you know who you are), to hoping public pressure changes their mind? Ultimately, I'd like to see the games played, but I'm getting to the point where my pride is telling me I want to see UND get through the transition and into a conference and then schedule NDSU on even ground.

Again Thank you Matt for a reasonable post. I along with so many other Bison fans have been asking this queston for along time. I doubt many here will admit or concede this point though. Please have your AD fill out your schedules and leave NDSU out of it. We certainly don't need you on our schedules and I am one who would like to see you finish your transition on your own merits (after all wasn't DaveK who guaranteed that "the UND transition would be as smooth if not smoother than NDSU's?) It really is pretty sad when a fan base of one school has to plot ways of trying to figure out how to get public opinion turned against another school so they have to play you. This DI Transition is turning into a trainwreck for you guys and it's not NDSU's fault much to the chagrin of some on here who like to blame NDSU if the sun doesn't shine today. Public opinion is not with your administrators or the politicians who proposed this ridiculous legislation. The more this festers the worse UND looks in this debacle. Flame away.

[GeauxSioux]

McFeeley: NDSU-UND rivalry mandate ahead of its time

The trouble with the house bill introduced this week to the North Dakota Legislature, mandating that NDSU and UND renew their dormant football rivalry, is that it is, oh, only about 10 years ahead of its time.

Legislators forcing the Bison and Sioux to play should be a last resort. This situation hasn

[GeauxSioux]

Again Thank you Matt for a reasonable post. I along with so many other Bison fans have been asking this queston for along time. I doubt many here will admit or concede this point though. Please have your AD fill out your schedules and leave NDSU out of it. We certainly don't need you on our schedules and I am one who would like to see you finish your transition on your own merits (after all wasn't DaveK who guaranteed that "the UND transition would be as smooth if not smoother than NDSU's?) It really is pretty sad when a fan base of one school has to plot ways of trying to figure out how to get public opinion turned against another school so they have to play you. This DI Transition is turning into a trainwreck for you guys and it's not NDSU's fault much to the chagrin of some on here who like to blame NDSU if the sun doesn't shine today. Public opinion is not with your administrators or the politicians who proposed this ridiculous legislation. The more this festers the worse UND looks in this debacle. Flame away.

UND's transition is just beginning, so I don't think you could characterize it as a train wreck. I'll bet if you look back at NDSU's first year in transition it wouldn't be all roses. There will be some bumps along the road, but UND will get there.

Do you really think it is the "fan base" behind 4-5 people in the legislature putting forth a bill? Many of us on this board think the legislature just butt out and do it's job.

I don't understand people who use the "flame away" at the end of their posts. Do you want people to get angry with what you posted? I just take read your posts and try to imagine life through urine colored glasses and shrug my shoulders. Move along little doggie.

[Shawn-O]

It's been what, a day since the bill was announced, and already this is the most overused clich

[FSSD]

Again Thank you Matt for a reasonable post. I along with so many other Bison fans have been asking this queston for along time. I doubt many here will admit or concede this point though. Please have your AD fill out your schedules and leave NDSU out of it. We certainly don't need you on our schedules and I am one who would like to see you finish your transition on your own merits (after all wasn't DaveK who guaranteed that "the UND transition would be as smooth if not smoother than NDSU's?) It really is pretty sad when a fan base of one school has to plot ways of trying to figure out how to get public opinion turned against another school so they have to play you. This DI Transition is turning into a trainwreck for you guys and it's not NDSU's fault much to the chagrin of some on here who like to blame NDSU if the sun doesn't shine today. Public opinion is not with your administrators or the politicians who proposed this ridiculous legislation. The more this festers the worse UND looks in this debacle. Flame away.

DI in Fargo, I believe the general consensus is that Legislation is the wrong path. But, I cannot help but wonder what caused this action. In my opinion, this Legislation is a direct result of the poor communication through the media that took place in Fargo two weeks ago between the Summit League and NDSU administration on its policy toward conference members scheduling UND. I am still not sure what the policy is .. it started as "no ban" by Summit League officials, then "League bans" by NDSU officials to "be careful" a day later. I have no idea what this really means when you try to schedule athletics. So, please recognize the point that maybe some of this is self inflicted. As you say "Flame away"

[DI IN FARGO]

DI in Fargo, I believe the general consensus is that Legislation is the wrong path. But, I cannot help but wonder what caused this action. In my opinion, this Legislation is a direct result of the poor communication through the media that took place in Fargo two weeks ago between the Summit League and NDSU administration on its policy toward conference members scheduling UND. I am still not sure what the policy is .. it started as "no ban" by Summit League officials, then "League bans" by NDSU officials to "be careful" a day later. I have no idea what this really means when you try to schedule athletics. So, please recognize the point that maybe some of this is self inflicted. As you say "Flame away"

Maybe an email or a phone call by the UND AD to the Commish or Gene Taylor would be a good place to start. It seems like your AD is helpless and doesn't even know how to use a telephone. It's no surprise that the UND AD doesn't know what the NDSU policy is for scheduling since he can't, won't or doesn't know how to make a telephone call to either Gene Taylor or Tom Douple. Instead its just easier to blame NDSU and it's administration for your own AD's ineptitude. One more thing even though it seems to be normal operating procedure up North to "communicate through the media" that is not nor should it be how things are done and it certainly doesn't help in this situation.

[Dagger]

It seems like I have been under the impression through the news and various interviews that Chapman and Kelly have had more than one conversation about the situation with the rivalry. I think I even heard Gene Taylor say that. Isn't that where all decisions are going to be made anyway. I think the media is just trying to take a little of the spotlight off Taylor. We all know how Gene Taylor feels about the situation and that is where the story is starting to gain momentum. Taylor has been all over the map on this subject. The bottom line is UND has had contact with NDSU about resuming the rivalry.

[DI IN FARGO]

It seems like I have been under the impression through the news and various interviews that Chapman and Kelly have had more than one conversation about the situation with the rivalry. I think I even heard Gene Taylor say that. Isn't that where all decisions are going to be made anyway. I think the media is just trying to take a little of the spotlight off Taylor. We all know how Gene Taylor feels about the situation and that is where the story is starting to gain momentum. Taylor has been all over the map on this subject. The bottom line is UND has had contact with NDSU about resuming the rivalry.

With all due respect unless you work for either NDSU or UND and are involved with the AD or President directly and have inside knowledge you are purely speculating just like me and everyone else and basing what you think off what is being put out in the media. Taylor hasn't been all over the map on this subject rather he has been pretty stedfast that at this point in time there is no room for a NDSU vs. UND football game. You just don't like the answer he keeps giving. The comment about the media trying to take the spotlight off of Taylor is pretty comical as well. If they think they can get another story or garner more readership/viewers for any story they are going to be all over it like a fly on stink. Please answer the question in the previous post, what happened to we don't need them? It's a fair question.

[iramurphy]

None of this is anything the legislators should be wasting their time on. Let the schools work it out. It will happen and is nothing you want politicians making laws over. If someone nees to intervene then the Chancellor can direct them to do this. Despite what some may think, the two presidents answer to the chancellor and the board.

[Dagger]

With all due respect unless you work for either NDSU or UND and are involved with the AD or President directly and have inside knowledge you are purely speculating just like me and everyone else and basing what you think off what is being put out in the media. Taylor hasn't been all over the map on this subject rather he has been pretty stedfast that at this point in time there is no room for a NDSU vs. UND football game. You just don't like the answer he keeps giving. The comment about the media trying to take the spotlight off of Taylor is pretty comical as well. If they think they can get another story or garner more readership/viewers for any story they are going to be all over it like a fly on stink. Please answer the question in the previous post, what happened to we don't need them? It's a fair question.

First of all I think the legislation is totally stupid. I didn't have a problem with all the various reasons Taylor gave for not wanting to play the game (even though I don't agree with all of them). That is until yesterday when he said he didn't want to play the game because he thought the rivalry had become to negative. That excuse was just way to comical(using your words). It is very obvious that this whole situaton needs to be handled through the Presidents. Which is where it should be taken care of at. It is very apparent that discussions with Gene Taylor would be totally fruitless.

[DI IN FARGO]

First of all I think the legislation is totally stupid. I didn't have a problem with all the various reasons Taylor gave for not wanting to play the game (even though I don't agree with all of them). That is until yesterday when he said he didn't want to play the game because he thought the rivalry had become to negative. That excuse was just way to comical(using your words). It is very obvious that this whole situaton needs to be handled through the Presidents. Which is where it should be taken care of at. It is very apparent that discussions with Gene Taylor would be totally fruitless.

I certaily wouldn't want you for an employee. Nothing personal but if you feel that a person hired to do a job isn't the right person to go to FIRST when you need to discuss something he oversee's then you are completely wrong no matter how much you dislike that person. If after you go to that person and you cannot resolve a problem then fine go to the next in line above them. You see this is called "chain of command" and it's not only a good policy but one that is generally accepted as the standard method of operation in most organizations UND excluded. I guess at UND it's ok to use the Media before any contact is made. You can try to blame Taylor all you want the bottom line is UND's AD dropped the ball on this BIGTIME and he's not only made himself look foolish in this but UND as well. It's ok to hate on Taylor if you want but trying to place the blame at his feet won't fly. Talk to your own AD. By the way I'm still waiting for the "We don't need you" answer. Wasn't that the standard line up North not to long ago?

[Oxbow6]

By the way I'm still waiting for the "We don't need you" answer. Wasn't that the standard line up North not to long ago?

We don't need you, but we just want to have that warm, fuzzy feeling again soon of kicking your ass!

There's your answer.

[moser53]

With all due respect unless you work for either NDSU or UND and are involved with the AD or President directly and have inside knowledge you are purely speculating just like me and everyone else and basing what you think off what is being put out in the media. Taylor hasn't been all over the map on this subject rather he has been pretty stedfast that at this point in time there is no room for a NDSU vs. UND football game. You just don't like the answer he keeps giving. The comment about the media trying to take the spotlight off of Taylor is pretty comical as well. If they think they can get another story or garner more readership/viewers for any story they are going to be all over it like a fly on stink. Please answer the question in the previous post, what happened to we don't need them? It's a fair question.

If the Gophers called Taylor about a game in the next 3 seasons do you think SU would

find a spot for them on on there shedule? Taylor would find room for the Gophers. Wouldn't he.

[mksioux]

If the Gophers called Taylor about a game in the next 3 seasons do you think SU would

find a spot for them on on there shedule? Taylor would find room for the Gophers. Wouldn't he.

Not a fair analogy. Taylor has said all along that he wants to reserve one game per year for an FBS money game. If the Gophers came calling, Gene would gladly add the Gophers to his schedule as the FBS money game and that would not be inconsistent with his prior comments.

[DI IN FARGO]

We don't need you, but we just want to have that warm, fuzzy feeling again soon of kicking your ass!

There's your answer.

Kudo's to you at least you have a sense of humor about it.

[moser53]

First I think UND will succeed in the transition to D1 with or without SU on our schedule in any sport. But I am pro UND and if it helps UND having the state get involved in playing SU I am for it. I ask this question has not having them as a rival hurt UND in enrollment, recruiting, prestige. If it has I will enthusiastically support the bill in Bismarck. I'm just a fan on the outside looking in with no knowledge on what kind of shape UND is in.

As many posters have said on this topic state involment in these matters is nothing new. When state employees are acting against the states best interest it is there duty to step in and give a little adult supervision. And I am not saying NDSU has done anything wrong but I think it's pretty clear they do not want to play UND in any sport.

What government get's involved in is always in the eye of the beholder. Remember the Terry Schiavo case in Florida. Congress was called back to session while on Easter recess to try to keep Terry alive. Was that government involment where it shouldn't have been? Again if UND feels it's in it's best interest to push the SU issue I'm all for it.

[mksioux]

GF Herald editorial against the football bill.

Football is a game. The UND-NDSU rivalry is morale-building entertainment.

Neither should be subject to the police power of the state. Besides, as others have pointed out, the universities are well on their way to restarting their rivalry on their own.

This is a common argument I've heard against the bill. Maybe I'm just not as optimistic as everyone, but I just don't see it.

[Matt]

GF Herald editorial against the football bill.

This is a common argument I've heard against the bill. Maybe I'm just not as optimistic as everyone, but I just don't see it.

These institutions are what, nearing 200 years old? If thy don't play for even another ten years, so what? That's a blip on the radar.