mksioux Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I could see the MVFC expanding beyond the current 9 members even. Why would the MVFC want to expand beyond 9 teams? That's the perfect number for a football conference. You have an odd number, so there are an equal number of home and road conference games and you get to play every team in your conference every year while leaving room for at least three non-conference games. If they expanded to 11 teams, they would have to start an unbalanced schedule or have only one non-conference game most years (and likely no FCS non-conference games). There's no way they go for that option. The only other scenario is a Big 12 type two divisional set-up where you play half the teams every year and the other half every other year. What would be the advantage for existing members of going to that type of conference? Don't get me wrong, I think UND and USD would make great conference members. Both are name brand schools, have great history, a good fan following, and good facilities. But it's not like UND and USD are such a great catch that the conference would be willing to re-invent itself just for their inclusion. The reality is, the most likely way UND and USD will get into the MVFC is if existing teams leave the conference, but I've heard nothing to indicate that's going to happen anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 To the point of the thread, I don't think it was a surprise that this bill got killed a quick death. Football is not a priority worthy of legislative intervention in North Dakota (unlike some other places, particularly in the south). But I do think part of the reason for the margin of defeat was the common consensus among legislators of the inevitability that the rivalry will be resumed in due time and there was no need for legislative intervention. I believe that assumption of inevitabilty will go away in the coming years as it becomes apparent to all that NDSU has no intention of resuming the rivalary, at least not in a meaningful way. It'll be interesting to see if this comes up again in two years when there has been no progress on scheduling. I still don't think it will pass, but without a consensus of inevitability, it will get more serious consideration than it did this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Why would the MVFC want to expand beyond 9 teams? That's the perfect number for a football conference. You have an odd number, so there are an equal number of home and road conference games and you get to play every team in your conference every year while leaving room for at least three non-conference games. If they expanded to 11 teams, they would have to start an unbalanced schedule or have only one non-conference game most years (and likely no FCS non-conference games). There's no way they go for that option. The only other scenario is a Big 12 type two divisional set-up where you play half the teams every year and the other half every other year. What would be the advantage for existing members of going to that type of conference? Don't get me wrong, I think UND and USD would make great conference members. Both are name brand schools, have great history, a good fan following, and good facilities. But it's not like UND and USD are such a great catch that the conference would be willing to re-invent itself just for their inclusion. The reality is, the most likely way UND and USD will get into the MVFC is if existing teams leave the conference, but I've heard nothing to indicate that's going to happen anytime soon. Your argument seems like it would make sense. But I want you to consider the precendent: the CAA conference. That conference has 12 members and has gotten FIVE (that's 5) teams into the 16 team playoff field the last two years, the most of any. They also produced the national champions this season (Richmond). Now there is talk of the CAA expanding to 14 to accomidate ODU and Georgia State. So I want to ask you, if the CAA makes it work (and it works quite well for them), why wouldn't the MVFC consider something similar IF there were expansion candidates that could add strong football programs? I don't see why UND and USD wouldn't be considered in that case. And there's always the possibility that we could get some movement, either from the geographical outliers (Youngstown and Missiouri St) or by a program dropping out of the conference (Indiana State). You never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlsiouxfan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 NDSU has proven they don't need to play UND - The same can't be said for UND yet. With only 4 home games last year and only 3 scheduled this year it looks like your having a lot harder time of it. By the way where is all that political clout that some of the previous posters were talking about? Talked with a friend in the legislature and he said that everyone he talked to in the legislature that wasn't a NDSU or UND fan told him that they were proud of the way NDSU has handled the transition and especially beating MN in football. They weren't about to interfere with the scheduling. They would like to see the game but understood the complexity of the issue and why now it would cost NDSU money to start a home and home. They're hoping that UND can get into the MVC. You do know it's better than a coin flip chance that NDSU will only have four home games next year. Despite what Gene Taylor says you haven't scheduled a fifth home game yet. Word out of Fargo is that IF NDSU fills this spot it will most likely be scheduling-- GASP!!!-- a D-II or NAIA team. Then we'll have two of Gene Taylor's grand reasons for not renewing the rivalry debunked and then he'll have to come up with an entirely new set of lame excuses to not play UND. While I'm a firm believer that the series will not be renewed for at least another 6-8 years I have no doubt that this issue will continue to plague Taylor and Chapman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You do know it's better than a coin flip chance that NDSU will only have four home games next year. Despite what Gene Taylor says you haven't scheduled a fifth home game yet. Word out of Fargo is that IF NDSU fills this spot it will most likely be scheduling-- GASP!!!-- a D-II or NAIA team. Then we'll have two of Gene Taylor's grand reasons for not renewing the rivalry debunked and then he'll have to come up with an entirely new set of lame excuses to not play UND. While I'm a firm believer that the series will not be renewed for at least another 6-8 years I have no doubt that this issue will continue to plague Taylor and Chapman. Plague? What world are you in - Did you see the vote 90-3.... You forgot we gain NOTHING by playing you. That's why it won't happen for awhile. Last time I looked you only had 3 home games. You only had 4 last year with a 10 game schedule. Had to hurt the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Plague? What world are you in - Did you see the vote 90-3.... You forgot we gain NOTHING by playing you. That's why it won't happen for awhile. Last time I looked you only had 3 home games. You only had 4 last year with a 10 game schedule. Had to hurt the bottom line. Dan, UND had five home games last year and set a regular season attendance record per game. You are correct, scheduling has been tough, but will improve as the UND moves through the transition process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Dan, UND had five home games last year and set a regular season attendance record per game. You are correct, scheduling has been tough, but will improve as the UND moves through the transition process. Your right forgot about that last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sIoUxPeRsTiTiOuS Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Did you see the vote 90-3.... Bison Dick, That legislative piece of garbage has NOTHING to do with either school. So you can stop referring to it as if someone at UND brought it to the table, and as if someone at ndsu shot it down. Please get over yourself.......sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sIoUxPeRsTiTiOuS Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Bison Dick, That legislative piece of garbage has NOTHING to do with either school. So you can stop referring to it as if someone at UND brought it to the table, and as if someone at ndsu shot it down. Please get over yourself.......sometime. Oops, I meant Dan. Sorry. They both start with 'D' thought right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You do know it's better than a coin flip chance that NDSU will only have four home games next year. Despite what Gene Taylor says you haven't scheduled a fifth home game yet. Word out of Fargo is that IF NDSU fills this spot it will most likely be scheduling-- GASP!!!-- a D-II or NAIA team. Then we'll have two of Gene Taylor's grand reasons for not renewing the rivalry debunked and then he'll have to come up with an entirely new set of lame excuses to not play UND. While I'm a firm believer that the series will not be renewed for at least another 6-8 years I have no doubt that this issue will continue to plague Taylor and Chapman. A game is guaranteed in 2012. Taylor already backed himself into a corner on that one. Might not be an annual game, but a single game at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Plague? What world are you in - Did you see the vote 90-3.... You forgot we gain NOTHING by playing you. That's why it won't happen for awhile. Last time I looked you only had 3 home games. You only had 4 last year with a 10 game schedule. Had to hurt the bottom line. We gain nothing by playing UND except that they're the only non conference FCS team that will guarantee a sell out and is willing to come to the Fargodome. Yeah, just that small little detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 We gain nothing by playing UND except that they're the only non conference FCS team that will guarantee a sell out and is willing to come to the Fargodome. Yeah, just that small little detail. UND will not come to the dome without a return game - get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 UND will not come to the dome without a return game - get it! Untrue and we will see this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Untrue and we will see this. Well hell if UND is willing to only play in Fargo I don't think we have any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well hell if UND is willing to only play in Fargo I don't think we have any problems. No every year, but Taylor didn't say they would play every year right off the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 No every year, but Taylor didn't say they would play every year right off the back. And that's precisely how Taylor gets himself out the so-called 2012 box you claim he put himself in. He offers UND a one-game contract in Fargo knowing UND will not accept it, and then he can say he tried. Sorry Mpls, the reality is that absent UND getting into the MVFC or legislative action, both of which are very unlikely, this football rivalry is not resuming anytime in the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well hell if UND is willing to only play in Fargo I don't think we have any problems. Most UND fans would have no problem playing in the Fargodome for a couple years to start this thing off. We love the Fargodome! Our AD may have another opinion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I really would rather not play UND, but I suspect if Taylor made the offer of a game in Fargo in 2012 (a one game deal), UND would take him up on it. It does seem that the new folks in charge at UND are more interested in building bridges rather than throwing up roadblocks ala Roger Thomas and Kuppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 And that's precisely how Taylor gets himself out the so-called 2012 box you claim he put himself in. He offers UND a one-game contract in Fargo knowing UND will not accept it, and then he can say he tried. Sorry Mpls, the reality is that absent UND getting into the MVFC or legislative action, both of which are very unlikely, this football rivalry is not resuming anytime in the foreseeable future. Don't kid yourself. UND will take a one game offer in 2012. One less game to schedule and an easy game for fans to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I really would rather not play UND, but I suspect if Taylor made the offer of a game in Fargo in 2012 (a one game deal), UND would take him up on it. It does seem that the new folks in charge at UND are more interested in building bridges rather than throwing up roadblocks ala Roger Thomas and Kuppy. It's pretty sad when your own so called fanbase is so bitter that they would rather see a team brought up from who knows where for a game that probably won't sell out when you could play a team from the same state that would guaranteed sell out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I really would rather not play UND, but I suspect if Taylor made the offer of a game in Fargo in 2012 (a one game deal), UND would take him up on it. It does seem that the new folks in charge at UND are more interested in building bridges rather than throwing up roadblocks ala Roger Thomas and Kuppy.Yeah and Geno and Whiskey Joe are completely blameless in this mess - keep dirinkin' that Kool Aid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yeah and Geno and Whiskey Joe are completely blameless in this mess - keep dirinkin' that Kool Aid! What mess? It was RT's decision not to play - we're just finishing what he started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 What mess? It was RT's decision not to play - we're just finishing what he started. Dan, that's school kid talk. RT and CK are gone. Can we move on from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 What mess? It was RT's decision not to play - we're just finishing what he started.I'll bet your dad can beat up mine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Don't kid yourself. UND will take a one game offer in 2012. One less game to schedule and an easy game for fans to make. Your words express complete confidence. Muss is on the record saying he doesn't want a one gamer. I'm not saying the coach's opinion is a deal breaker (see maturi and brewster), but he may be creating a bad situation with his coach depending on how strongly Muss feels about it. How important is a one gamer to Faison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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