Nickname/Logo Affecting Conference Affiliation

[Goon]

Dan Hammer is weighing in on the subject again today on 740 the Fan.

He also seems irritated that Douple told him the exact opposite of what he apparently told Jeff Kolpack.

This is going to look good in the media, everyone involved is going to look like a bunch of 5 year olds.

[darell1976]

How come only Gene Taylor is speaking out on this what about the other teams in the Summit i would like to hear what SDSU has to say on this especailly scheduling UND in baseball next season. Also I think the name will be gone on or before 2010 there will be no tribal approval, so i think the Sioux should get another name then see if A. Minnesota lifts their ban on UND and if they would schedule the Sioux in the near future and B. if the Summit would want UND to apply for membership. Maybe NDSU will put a ban on UND for the name North Dakota and not for Fighting Sioux.

[ScottM]

People haven't forgotten what happened a few years ago. The more UND criticizes NDSU for not scheduling UND now, the worse it looks for its behavior back then. Again, those who live in glass houses...

No, Molly, people actually have very short-term memories when it comes to money. If UND can show 'su to be the candy-assed cowards we know them to be in very public forums, I see no downside for either school.

[SooToo]

People haven't forgotten what happened a few years ago. The more UND criticizes NDSU for not scheduling UND now, the worse it looks for its behavior back then. Again, those who live in glass houses...

So you're back to this argument? Time to get over it and move on, pal; let go of the bitterness -- or at least own up to it.

A lot of sports fans around the state would love to see the competition, but UND will survive without playing the AC.

Why do we care? Well, maybe the banner headlines in the Fargo sports section caught our attention or maybe, as was mentioned earlier, we just have a thing for honesty. Why should you care? Because the longer your boys play this transparent charade, the more evident their dishonesty and pettiness is to everyone outside of Bisonville.

[dakotadan]

Douple said he received

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Why is it so important what reason NDSU is using not to schedule UND?

It's JMHO, but if you let someone frame the issue in terms of the nickname, they're relying on the entire weight of the NCAA being behind them. And the only way you'll prove them wrong is once you're off the NCAA s-list.

Not a lot of other schools would merit special consideration, but your in-state rival just might.

[star2city]

Before you make such allegations, you might want to pause to reflect on who originally sought to harm whom. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Because Roger Thomas was not supportive of a DI move up (by anyone), he's upfront enough to call a press conference proclaim that and announce NDSU desire of scheduling (would which have been dropped by NDSU after the transition) would not be accepted. There's no intent to deceive anyone about UND's intentions. Takes cahoons: but NDSU nation goes absolutely bonkers. "To think that UND won't do what we demand of them."

But Gene Taylor:

- privately proclaims he'll never schedule UND while he's at NDSU, but the media doesn't report this, because it's not a press conference.

- attempts to deceive the public about why he won't schedule UND. the media reports it, knowing it's total bull$%!#

- attempts to get his conference commissioner to have a policy to not schedule UND, eliminating nine schools as possible opponents

- by his actions appears to harm UND chances of getting into a conference

- by his actions, any small chance of UND getting Tribal nickname approval are down the drain

- acts in direct conflict with NDUS policy, yet isn't reprimanded.

Moral equivalence: only to a criminal mind.

[petey23]

Doesn't look like he's lying to me. And if he is, what difference does it make to you?

If he is lying about it, that just goes to his character, and Douple is covering for his arrogance.

or

If he isn't lying about it and it is the Summit Conferences official policy(concerning the nickname) then it should be investigated as to whether Gene Taylor and/or President Chapman did one of the following

a. fully supported UND's efforts to gain conference affiliation

b. recused themselves from any and all discussion of the matter

c. actively worked to block UND's entrance to the Summit

If the answer is C, then the state of North Dakota should be working on a severance package for either or both of them.

[bisonguy]

Because Roger Thomas was not supportive of a DI move up (by anyone), he's upfront enough to call a press conference proclaim that and announce NDSU desire of scheduling (would which have been dropped by NDSU after the transition) would not be accepted. There's no intent to deceive anyone about UND's intentions. Takes cahoons: but NDSU nation goes absolutely bonkers. "To think that UND won't do what we demand of them."

But Gene Taylor:

- privately proclaims he'll never schedule UND while he's at NDSU, but the media doesn't report this, because it's not a press conference.

- attempts to deceive the public about why he won't schedule UND. the media reports it, knowing it's total bull$%!#

- attempts to get his conference commissioner to have a policy to not schedule UND, eliminating nine schools as possible opponents

- by his actions appears to harm UND chances of getting into a conference

- by his actions, any small chance of UND getting Tribal nickname approval are down the drain

- acts in direct conflict with NDUS policy, yet isn't reprimanded.

Moral equivalence: only to a criminal mind.

Do you have anything remotely close to a source for these ludicrous accusations, or is it mererly hearsay?

[star2city]

Do you have anything remotely close to a source for these ludicrous accusations, or is it mererly hearsay?

Post must have woke you up.

Taylor saying he never would schedule UND while he's at NDSU is hearsay, but the Fargo media knows the truth on that.

The rest is documented or the damage can be deduced from his actions.

The point is, Roger Thomas was man enough to say what he believed and didn't interfere with NDSU's pursuit of DI with third parties (like other schools, conference commissioners).

[Matt]

- attempts to get his conference commissioner to have a policy to not schedule UND, eliminating nine schools as possible opponents

- by his actions appears to harm UND chances of getting into a conference

Is there a link or a bibliography to this? It is well documented neither he nor Chapman want to schedule UND, and I want to see the programs playing again, but I've yet to see evidence he or Chapman attempted to get the conference policy changed to not schedule UND.

[Hansel]

Because Roger Thomas was not supportive of a DI move up (by anyone), he's upfront enough to call a press conference proclaim that and announce NDSU desire of scheduling (would which have been dropped by NDSU after the transition) would not be accepted. There's no intent to deceive anyone about UND's intentions. Takes cahoons: but NDSU nation goes absolutely bonkers. "To think that UND won't do what we demand of them."

But Gene Taylor:

- privately proclaims he'll never schedule UND while he's at NDSU, but the media doesn't report this, because it's not a press conference.

- attempts to deceive the public about why he won't schedule UND. the media reports it, knowing it's total bull$%!#

- attempts to get his conference commissioner to have a policy to not schedule UND, eliminating nine schools as possible opponents

- by his actions appears to harm UND chances of getting into a conference

- by his actions, any small chance of UND getting Tribal nickname approval are down the drain

- acts in direct conflict with NDUS policy, yet isn't reprimanded.

Moral equivalence: only to a criminal mind.

I heard Taylor also tried to sell WMD to Iran. All of the local media knows about it but they love NDSU and hate UND so they won't report on it.

[Herd]

This stuff makes my head spin. Whey would these guys do something like this? Are they that worried that UND might be kicking their @$$ on the athletic field some day soon? What the heck is NDSU scared of?

Please give me one good reason why Taylor should be obligated to schedule UND. The fact that he says any more than "no comment" is proof that his is a standup guy and isn't trying to avoid the issues. The guideline by the Summit has zero to do with Taylor, that is a baseless, crazy conspiracy theory. That guideline has zero to do with NDSU.

He has no more obligation to schedule UND in 2009 than your administration did to schedule NDSU in 2003, regardless of the nickname issue. Where was the outcry in 2003 while your administration sat back and laughed.

Write your legislators, bad mouth Taylor on message boards, dial 911 . . . whatever works for you.

[Goon]

Please give me one good reason why Taylor should be obligated to schedule UND. The fact that he says any more than "no comment" is proof that his is a standup guy and isn't trying to avoid the issues. The guideline by the Summit has zero to do with Taylor, that is a baseless, crazy conspiracy theory. That guideline has zero to do with NDSU.

He has no more obligation to schedule UND in 2009 than your administration did to schedule NDSU in 2003, regardless of the nickname issue. Where was the outcry in 2003 while your administration sat back and laughed.

Write your legislators, bad mouth Taylor on message boards, dial 911 . . . whatever works for you.

Translation is that your school president is playing one up or I will show you. How dare you do that to me so we are going to turn around and do it

to you. Like I said, childish. We don't even have the same ad anymore.

[JackJD]

How come only Gene Taylor is speaking out on this what about the other teams in the Summit i would like to hear what SDSU has to say on this especailly scheduling UND in baseball next season. Also I think the name will be gone on or before 2010 there will be no tribal approval, so i think the Sioux should get another name then see if A. Minnesota lifts their ban on UND and if they would schedule the Sioux in the near future and B. if the Summit would want UND to apply for membership. Maybe NDSU will put a ban on UND for the name North Dakota and not for Fighting Sioux.

I cannot say what SDSU's position may be on the subject. As you and others have noted, SDSU has scheduled several baseball games with UND so that says something...just not sure what (maybe it says nothing more than the schedules of the two schools "fit" on those dates).

I'm an outsider on your warfare with NDSU. I cannot fully understand whatever goes on in the minds of some UND fans as expressed on this message board. (I know, its just a few posters.) The USD and SDSU relationship did not seem to attain the same whatever it was that you guys managed to attain.

Several posts ago, someone asked why UND fans...or some on this message board,...seem to get so bent out of shape because NDSU won't schedule UND. Someone asked: Why do you care? I have looked through this thread for an anwer to that question. Why do you care? You have full schedules. Some of the same posters have made such extreme statements showing intense hatred for all things Bison...so why do you care? I think you'd be pleased UND and NDSU are not on each others schedules.

[Riverman]

This stuff makes my head spin. Whey would these guys do something like this? Are they that worried that UND might be kicking their @$$ on the athletic field some day soon? What the heck is NDSU scared of?

It sort of sounds like it.

The Chief has a point if UND finds out in some way SU submarined UND in trying to procure

a spot in the league that SU is part of, being a tax payer in the GREAT STATE of ND I want

to see heads roll!!!

The question I have is,

If UND drops the nickname does NDSU go to the Summit League and say we want UND to join?

It's time for SU to show leadership and stop acting like Jan Brady!! No problem if Taylor comes

to bat for UND is there SU faithful?

Or does SU use an excuse of "We have enough teams already." Again is SU a leader or a Jan Brady?

Should be interesting to hear what the NDBOE has to say in the next couple of weeks.

I also would like to submit a new nickname Plains Raiders. I would have said Red Raiders but Texas Tech is using that nickname.

[bisonguy]

Post must have woke you up.

Taylor saying he never would schedule UND while he's at NDSU is hearsay, but the Fargo media knows the truth on that.

The rest is documented or the damage can be deduced from his actions.

The point is, Roger Thomas was man enough to say what he believed and didn't interfere with NDSU's pursuit of DI with third parties (like other schools, conference commissioners).

Thanks, I just didn't know if I needed one of these or not to read that post:

Anyhow, after conversations I've had with Gene and the fact that he had discussed at least two possible games with Buning, I have a difficult time believing that Taylor is so adamantly opposed to scheduling UND. If he had such a grudge against UND, I can't see why UND was invited to the Erv Kaiser Invitational (golf).

I think Taylor might know a little something when UND gets the nickname issue fully resolved. Why work out contracts (and well, why not watch UND sweat a little..) when most sports will automatically be playing each other every year most likely in 2011 or 2012?

[dlsiouxfan]

Please give me one good reason why Taylor should be obligated to schedule UND. The fact that he says any more than "no comment" is proof that his is a standup guy and isn't trying to avoid the issues. The guideline by the Summit has zero to do with Taylor, that is a baseless, crazy conspiracy theory. That guideline has zero to do with NDSU.

He has no more obligation to schedule UND in 2009 than your administration did to schedule NDSU in 2003, regardless of the nickname issue. Where was the outcry in 2003 while your administration sat back and laughed.

Write your legislators, bad mouth Taylor on message boards, dial 911 . . . whatever works for you.

Taylor is not obligated to schedule UND, but it's part of his job as an employee of the state to adhere to NDBOHE policy. Whether he likes it or not the State of ND and the ND taxpayers (which includes a hell of a lot of UND grads) pay his salary. Tom Douple may be a hell of a pal to Gene but he doesn't sign Gene's checks so it really doesn't matter what the hell the Summit League's policy regarding playing UND is since that sure as hell better not be NDSU's. If Taylor and Chapman want to continue to take this stance then they will have to pay with their jobs because they're no longer serving the state of ND anymore.

[Matt]

Finding a permanent conference home is UND's responsibility alone. Doesn't NDSU really only matter if the Sioux come up for a vote by the conference presidents? When and if that time comes, Chapman will have to go on the record with his vote. Until that time, is it new information that NDSU won't be on the schedule? I don't like the negative press either, but the nickname issue is for UND to solve, and the fact it affects NDSU's potential to shedule UND, to me is irrelevant because they weren't gonna schedule it anyway, so what is the difference? The really irritating thing about this story to me is it reminds everyone that if UND would have moved up when Chapman brought it up, life would be different today. It makes Chapman look like the visionary all over again, and, to be sure because by their refusal to make the transition easier for UND in ANY way, they really are rubbing noses in it.

[Riverman]

I cannot say what SDSU's position may be on the subject. As you and others have noted, SDSU has scheduled several baseball games with UND so that says something...just not sure what (maybe it says nothing more than the schedules of the two schools "fit" on those dates).

I'm an outsider on your warfare with NDSU. I cannot fully understand whatever goes on in the minds of some UND fans as expressed on this message board. (I know, its just a few posters.) The USD and SDSU relationship did not seem to attain the same whatever it was that you guys managed to attain.

Several posts ago, someone asked why UND fans...or some on this message board,...seem to get so bent out of shape because NDSU won't schedule UND. Someone asked: Why do you care? I have looked through this thread for an anwer to that question. Why do you care? You have full schedules. Some of the same posters have made such extreme statements showing intense hatred for all things Bison...so why do you care? I think you'd be pleased UND and NDSU are not on each others schedules.

Who's bent out of shape? Last time I checked this was a Sioux Sports forum not Bisonville. All the same SU posters post the same

thing over and over. I am going to guess you never have seen the video Fire and Ice with Roger and Rocky you might have a better understanding of this rivalry. SDSU is the new kid on the block when it comes to NDSU. UND is Old School when it comes to NDSU.

[Riverman]

Taylor is not obligated to schedule UND, but it's part of his job as an employee of the state to adhere to NDBOHE policy. Whether he likes it or not the State of ND and the ND taxpayers (which includes a hell of a lot of UND grads) pay his salary. Tom Douple may be a hell of a pal to Gene but he doesn't sign Gene's checks so it really doesn't matter what the hell the Summit League's policy regarding playing UND is since that sure as hell better not be NDSU's. If Taylor and Chapman want to continue to take this stance then they will have to pay with their jobs because they're no longer serving the state of ND anymore.

ditto!

If it is found that SU's leaders have avoided following NDBOHE policy,

it is up to ND leadership to let these workers go.

[dakotadan]

Wow. Alot of people need to settle down.

1) Douple never said that UND wouldn't get into the Summit. Douple never said that he would never bring UND up for consideration, site visits, or for discussion for future expantions. He simply said that he wants to see UND get the nickname issue resolved before anything movs ahead. And we all know that is going to happen sooner rather than later.

2) Taylor and Chapman don't owe anything to UND. They have no reason to schedule us as long as they are getting full schedules with reasonable DI competition. Their fans want to see them play new DI teams and big schools with name recognition just as much as we want to see our schedule filled out with new DI teams and big schools with name recognition. Once UND is a counter it would make sence for both schools to schedule each other in non-revenue sports for travel and budget reasons. However, there is nothing that says either school MUST schedule the other.

3) So far we have no reason to believe that any of the NDSU administration is trying to blackball UND from the Summit League. If anyone has any actual evidence that has happened, I would hope that the SBOHE would be the first to be shown this evidence. But until there is any evidence, all of this trash talk and accusations is pointless.

[FargoBison]

If anyone thinks Gene Taylor or Joe Chapman are keeping UND from the Summit League you need to have your head examined. These are smart people, NDSU didn't get to where it is by accident. If UND gets into the Summit it will be fully on the quality of the school, and the desire of the league to add them.

Chances are that Douple is sending an early message to UND, get this resolved or knock on somebody else's door.

[Riverman]

all of this trash talk and accusations is pointless.

I thought this was a forum?

[Hammersmith]

What SBoHE policy are some of you talking about? With one exception, the stated policy of the Board is to stay out of athletic decisions involving the state's colleges and universities. The exception, of course, is the nickname matter, but can anyone actually quote a legislator or SBoHE member commenting on a policy that state universities are supposed to play one another or go to bat for them in conference deliberations? Because I've got several quotes saying the opposite.