fightingsioux4life

You really think winning the BSC MBB auto bid is similar to winning the B1G Football Championship game?

Apples and Oranges my friend.

Then what about the back to back debacles vs. Minnesota and NDSU? And what about the horrible road record? Those are things that cannot be just ignored and swept under the rug.

But they were also smart enough to realize their mistake and did what had to be done. Some people on here did not want to do what had to be done with regard to Mussman and the FB program about one year ago; all they gave us was the standard "Muss isn't out there playing, so it's not his fault" line.

Don't forget Glen Mason at Minnesota. He loaded up on a soft non-conference schedule, which allowed him to get to 6 wins and be bowl eligible even while getting destroyed by the B1G elite. But he forgot one little detail; you must win the crappy bowl game you get or else. That is what doomed him in the end. Now they are building a better program with Jerry Kill.

Going to have to disagree on the bolded statement above. The BSC is not a good MBB conference.

No because I think reaching the BSC title game last year was a fluke for the MBB team, a fluke that I do not think will be repeated in the coming years under Jones.

I think UND reaching the BSC championship game is analogus to the FB team winning a share of the Great West title in 2011 with that comeback win over USD at home. In other words, not necessarily a sign of progress and better things to come.

I do not expect national titles in basketball at the D-I level. I do expect us to be annual contenders for the MBB Big Sky autobid and to make occasional trips to the NCAA tournament in March like the WBB team did last season; which brings all sorts of positive media attention to our school and team. I do expect us to compete for Big Sky tournament titles in VB as well. I do expect us to compete for conference and national titles in FCS football and I do think Bubba is the man to take us there. I hope that clears up my positions on those sports.

Hey, don't get me wrong, there are some good things going on at UND. FB is in good hands with Bubba. MH continues to be a top 5 NCAA program. WBB is doing very well with Brewster in charge. I am simply concerned that we are stuck in neutral at best while our "friends" 75 miles to the south are rolling along and getting all sorts of positive media attention in the process. And don't be fooled, it does matter how we are perceived vs. how NDSU is perceived. It matters in recruiting local and regional athletes, it matters in terms of fan support (not the die-hards on this forum, but the average sports fan), it matters in terms of alumni donations and so on. Sometimes I get the feeling that Faison and Kelley are not as dedicated to making athletics the best they can be vs. NDSU's administration. Whiskey Joe Chapman might have been a weasel and crooked, but he did understand how athletics can lift an entire university (NDSU) and community (Fargo). I am not sure Kupchella and now Kelley have the same perspective. I do apologize if I have offended anyone (that is not my purpose here), but I am passionate about this place and I want us to be the best we can be. And right now, I don't know if we are moving in the right direction or not. I guess what I mean by "being shouted down" is the reaction I and others get on this forum when we point out some obvious shortcomings in one or more of our athletic programs. Some people get really close to questioning our loyalty (which I have ZERO tolerance for), some people say we want a "gold-plated" verison of D-I athletics (an absurd assumption in my book) and some people are simply satisfied with being Division I without any expectations for success attached (which I think makes all the time and money spent on the transition a waste). People can disagree with what I post and what I think all they want, but that doesn't mean I won't defend my positions. And as I have said before, I will gladly come on here and admit I am wrong if my assumptions and perceptions are proven wrong. Hope that clears some things up.

Really? It seems to me that it is people on your side that want to silence the critics with all your "everything is fine the way it is" rhetoric. I get shouted down whenever I point out obvious truths about problems that exist in our athletic department instead of valid rebuttal points that offer a different point of view. That is the real "backhand slap" to our alma mater and to those of us that don't want the MBB program to atrophy to the point of the FB program where it needs a total rebuild from the bottom up. And don't think we can't come up with buyout dollars for Jones like we did for Mussman. There are probably more than a few basketball alums who are not happy with the current state of the MBB program.

I seem to recall Letterman making lots of hay over the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal back in the late 1990's. He is in the entertainment business, not politics. And he is retiring soon, so you will have your wish. I do think his NBC show was (and still is) better than his CBS show. He had more freedom to go nuts in the 11:30-12:30 CT slot vs. the 10:30-11:30 CT slot.

Okay, didn't mean to put words into your mouth. I am just sick and tired of the "can't do" attitude surrounding UND athletics outside of Men's Hockey. Once we moved up to D-I in all sports, we gave up the luxury of running D-II sports on shoestring budgets and still having lots of success. But some people on this forum and in the UND athletic department haven't figured that out yet. Just venting my frustrations.

I seem to recall a bunch of empty seats in the FFD when the Bison were 2-8 back in 2002 and 3-8 back in 2009. Winning draws fans, makes money and pays the bills. Losing does the opposite of those things. If NDSU FB has a couple of subpar seasons (7-4, 6-5), a lot of bandwagon fans are going to jump ship. Also, NDSU does a much better job at marketing than UND does and it's been this way for years. And it needs to stop. I am sick and tired of UND being invisible compared to the media bullhorns that NDSU has at its disposal (KFGO and KVLY in case you were wondering). And if we are going to use the "Fargo is 3 times the size of Grand Forks" excuse, then we might as well give up right now because there is nothing we can do about that. Based on that logic, our hockey program should be small potatoes compared to the Gophers, who are located in a metro area of about 3 million. And if small, private schools like Gonzaga and Butler can make big splashes on the Division I Men's BB stage, then we can and should and must do better in MBB ourselves. We cannot continue to come up with more and more excuses why we can't do this and can't do that and start making things happen. And it's Faison and Kelley and the Alumni Association's job to do that. It all starts at the top with a winning, forward-thinking, positive approach to all sports. That is what is missing and that is what must change.

It isn't just about this season, it's about the whole body of work, which to be honest is mediocre at best. And basketball isn't #1 at NDSU either, so don't throw out that tired old excuse. Cold weather? Same problem in Fargo, but that doesn't stop them from making the NCAA tournament twice (including in their first season of eligibility). And if we are just willing to accept that all non-hockey sports are and will continue to be afterthoughts, we should have stayed in D-II. But we didn't, so we better figure this thing out. You are ready to throw in the towel, I am not. And if Kelley and Faison are willing to throw in the towel, we might need changes in those positions as well. I am through being patient and waiting for the "transition" and "nickname" hangovers to pass. It's put up or shut up time and I for one hope we put up.

You and your precious GOBC minions like to brag about how much power and wealth and influence you have over UND and Grand Forks, so don't tell us to "leave the GOBC outta this". Put up or shut up. My guess is it will be the latter because the former never has been and never will be true. Correct?

Unless the City of Fargo is appropriating money to NDSU from their general fund, I don't know what difference that should make. Grand Forks and UND have a much closer and much more symbiotic relationship than Fargo does with NDSU. Grand Forks businesses have always massively supported UND, as the campus is such a vital part of the vitality and sustainability of Grand Forks. And GF is growing thanks to residual impacts of the western oil boom and the emerging UAS industry, so that should help both UND and GF. I do agree with your second point however; the leadership simply isn't there at UND right now. Once Kelley retires and Faison either steps up or ships out, we can start making progress around here.

Yeah I'll listen. But I suspect all I'll get is more ducky and bunny sunshine blown up my a$$. But the question still needs to be asked, so I asked it.

And I suppose you think Mussman should still be in charge of football too? We bought out Mussman thanks to some generous alumni. I am thinking there would be more than a few basketball alums with deep pockets that might be willing to step up for their alma mater. Please tell me what Jones has done over the last 9 years to justify keeping him around? Has this program shown any signs of progress? I say no. What say you?

I certainly hope that is a lesson Faison has learned from both the Mussman and Jones extensions.

Men's hockey is a cash cow, so I don't think that can be listed as a detriment to the bottom line. Women's hockey is a legitimate sport to bring up. How much does tennis and swimming/diving cost to operate anyway? I am guessing not as much as hockey, football or basketball. I must ask the same question regarding wrestling at NDSU. If we need to cut sports to help our higher profile sports get more funding, I am all for at least discussing it. But I just don't know how much savings will be generated by doing that.

I still don't understand why we are broke and destitute when it comes to collegiate athletics vs. NDSU. We both have one revenue sport (MH for us, FB for them). We both have similar enrollments, similar missions as universities, similar obstacles to overcome (climate, location), play in one-bid conferences for basketball (Big Sky for us, Summit for them), have winning traditions and have loyal and passionate fan bases that want nothing less than the best for their respective schools. Whatever the problem is, it needs to be fixed. But whenever people like myself bring it up, we are basically shouted down by the ducky and bunny crowd. Which I think is a big part of the overall problem, aside from the hockey-only fans. If enough of our fans are apathetic about being championship contenders, why should Faison and Kelley care all that much? Shoot for the stars and you will more often than not achieve greatness. Shoot for the dog house and that is where you will end up.

I remember when a Rich Glas led team lost to Mary by 40 points back in 2004. It looks like we are back to that level of mediocrity and apathy with the MBB program.

Didn't you know? Nothing matters besides hockey at North Dakota's Flagship University!