UND's New Hockey Conference

[Hayduke]

I don't know if anybody has posted this yet, but I'll bet the CCHA will be kissing Alabama - Huntsville's @ss very, very soon!

[UND85]

Many of the SCSU fans here in St. Cloud that I've talked with wonder if they are being snubbed because of their former presidents mission to get our Sioux name taken away. They also wonder if their protesters they had at our games here had anything to do with it. Many believe that Gino will go to bat for them and try and get them into this new conference. What should I tell them?

[siouxnami]

The reality is that the 5 remaining teams in the WCHA will never, ever, ever play consistently at North Dakota's level. Sure there might be an occasional great year, but how many titles do those schools have in the last 30 years? Tech has some history, but other than that it is a group second tier hockey schools. They can now compete for an auto bid. Niceties aside, I am not sure that BSU hasn't beaten UND in my lifetime.

On another note St. Clown who has banned announcers from saying, "Sioux" can now kiss our a$$...

I expect the new league will invest in NHL quality refs, a real media campaign, and major market penetration. I also expect there to be much less WCHA style mugging by weaker programs. Look for a faster paced, more skill oriented, more offensive game. Also recruiting will be better hear than a watered down WCHA.

My favorite road trips, UNO and UMD are going to be yearly.

[tnt]

Many of the SCSU fans here in St. Cloud that I've talked with wonder if they are being snubbed because of their former presidents mission to get our Sioux name taken away. They also wonder if their protesters they had at our games here had anything to do with it. Many believe that Gino will go to bat for them and try and get them into this new conference. What should I tell them?

If they are trying to court Notre Dame, I don't think St. Cloud fits the equation. Omaha gave up football because they want to put all their resources to going Division 1. St. Cloud gave up football because... I can only guess is that they don't want to spend money to sustain it. That is the exact type of thinking that they do not want in the new league. With their proximity to the Twin Cities, they should have been a powerhouse in football, especially after NDSU, South Dakota, SDSU and UND left. What held them back there is probably what holds them back from being a consideration for the new conference.

[GeauxSioux]

If they are trying to court Notre Dame, I don't think St. Cloud fits the equation. Omaha gave up football because they want to put all their resources to going Division 1. St. Cloud gave up football because... I can only guess is that they don't want to spend money to sustain it. That is the exact type of thinking that they do not want in the new league. With their proximity to the Twin Cities, they should have been a powerhouse in football, especially after NDSU, South Dakota, SDSU and UND left. What held them back there is probably what holds them back from being a consideration for the new conference.

Sorry neighbor, I already gave away my +1 for the day. Your post is dead on.

[jodcon]

Many of the SCSU fans here in St. Cloud that I've talked with wonder if they are being snubbed because of their former presidents mission to get our Sioux name taken away. They also wonder if their protesters they had at our games here had anything to do with it. Many believe that Gino will go to bat for them and try and get them into this new conference. What should I tell them?

Although you won't see many Sioux fans shedding tears about St. Cloud being left out, I think it was more that they were #9 or 10 on the list than it was them being snubbed because of their anti-nickname actions.

Any new conference talk the last month or 2 has always included UND, Denver, CC, and UNO from the WCHA, and has speculated that it would be Miami, Notre Dame, and Western Michigan from the CCHA. Assuming Notre Dame and WM are going to be on board eventually, that leaves one spot...and apparently they felt that UMD with their committment of a new facility, coaching staff, and fresh off a national title...was the choice. Bemidji and St. Cloud would have probably been in the mix for the last spot also, and maybe a dark horse from further east.

[tnt]

Sorry neighbor, I already gave away my +1 for the day. Your post is dead on.

Then to even it out, why don't you give me a +1 when I have a post that absolutely sucks! Plenty of opportunity there.

[Chewey]

I don't know if anybody has posted this yet, but I'll bet the CCHA will be kissing Alabama - Huntsville's @ss very, very soon!

Good point. Wasn't the CCHA the one who, after UNO announced its intent to joint the WCHA, closed the door on UAH's application to join the CCHA? Even though the CCHA would go down to 11 teams after UNO's departure, it still would not allow UAH in. What goes around comes around, I guess. UAH has had a fairly long go of hockey in a non-hockey area and, most years, they are fairly decent. The CCHA's puerile slap in the face may come back to haunt it now. UAH could have been going in its 2nd year of membership instead of languishing in the godforsaken independent realm.

[tnt]

I guess I am with all the fans around the league, including those at Minnesota and Wisconsin, that wish it would have never come to this. When Penn State wasn't even a blip on the radar, why was there constantly talk about Minnesota and Wisconsin leaving the league for a Big Ten conference. I don't think the Big Ten was pushing that talk then. If somebody within the administrations (Barry Alvarez) keeps pushing the idea, then when a club team talks about playing Division 1 hockey, of course the Big Ten is going to make sure that comes to fruition. For that reason, I am not a big Barry Alvarez fan. Those that talked about the Big Ten conference back then were always met with conference realignment as a possibility if/when that actually came to fruition, so nobody should be surprised that is happening now. Let's just hope the hard feelings that have come out of this whole thing don't last as long as that between NDSU and UND. People are acting in their best interests, and that shouldn't come as a huge surprise either.

[Chewey]

Many of the SCSU fans here in St. Cloud that I've talked with wonder if they are being snubbed because of their former presidents mission to get our Sioux name taken away. They also wonder if their protesters they had at our games here had anything to do with it. Many believe that Gino will go to bat for them and try and get them into this new conference. What should I tell them?

I would bet that it played a factor, albeit probably a small one in the grand scope of things. It sure did not make SCSU any friends, as I see it. Gino may go to bat for them, but I doubt he'll be able to really do anything there, unless the league wants to go to 10 or 12 teams. It makes more sense for SCSU and the "rejects" (I hate saying that because I like Mankato, too - not as much as the Sioux, obviously- and it's one of them) of the WCHA and CCHA to join forces, get rid of McClod, circle the wagons and really try to make whatever league it is competitive. Get people like Gino to help pump/lobby alumni and state officials for money to upgrade facilities so that some semblance of parity with the SuperLeague can be attempted. This is where Gino can help SCSU. Even he can't make gold out of straw. St. Cloud has a rabid fan base, which is an excellent start, and it has many alums who are in or who have been in the NHL. It has an excellent coaching staff, too. However, it's facilities, while nice, are sub par and aging. Time to make major improvements to NHC so as to increase seating capacity. Just think of poor Mankato. Jutting is a good coach but you should look at the practice facility. It's an ok building but it is NO D-1 practice facility. Plus, it's southern MN. While there are a lot of very good fans, it is not like St. Cloud or Duluth; maybe it will be in time. Plus, the Verizon Center is a lot like the NHC. That place loses money year in and year out and I would highly doubt that the City is going to be amenable to investing more money into it. The competitive potential for those schools will be set back a ton because of this, unfortunately. Hopefully, more David Backes, Matt Cullen, Mark Parrish, Brian Holzinger, Ryan Carter types who know they will get a TON more playing time at those schools will consider attending those schools.

Bottom Line: UND needed to do it. No one likes the fact that it must happen. It is being seen as a necessary "forced" decision because of the BTHC so blame the BTHC schools.

Everything was fine as it was but the arrogance of the B10 schools started the present domino effect. Silver lining: UAH finally gets into a conference and saves its program and alumni of struggling programs step up to assist their schools.

[MoreSiouxForYou]

I think the biggest problem with scsu being in the new conf is even though they have had steadily rising revenues from attendance in the current nhc, they were only able to secure their arena improvement/ addition with significant state help.

From a bankrupt state, that puts them in a bad place to keep up with well funded programs regardless of great strides they have made.

[bincitysioux]

If in fact that North Dakota was spear-heading this idea, or at least one of the leaders throughout it, I'd like to give kudos to our A.D. Brian Faison and our President Robert Kelley. First the the Big Sky Conference, now the hockey "super conference". Their foresight deserves acknowledgement.............

[Ray77]

Many of the SCSU fans here in St. Cloud that I've talked with wonder if they are being snubbed because of their former presidents mission to get our Sioux name taken away. They also wonder if their protesters they had at our games here had anything to do with it. Many believe that Gino will go to bat for them and try and get them into this new conference. What should I tell them?

I'm not sure if who the commissioner of this new conference has been talked about or not, but are we so sure that Gino has been ruled out? It may be that Gino is sought out to be the commissioner, and if that's the case he'll do what's best for the conference, not what's best for St. Cloud. If he's not the new commissioner and if SCSU retains him as an advisor, then I'm sure he'll do what he can to help them with the situation we find ourselves in, but not sure that would mean them getting into this new conference.

[MoreSiouxForYou]

I would bet that it played a factor, albeit probably a small one in the grand scope of things. It sure did not make SCSU any friends, as I see it. Gino may go to bat for them, but I doubt he'll be able to really do anything there, unless the league wants to go to 10 or 12 teams. It makes more sense for SCSU and the "rejects" (I hate saying that because I like Mankato, too - not as much as the Sioux, obviously- and it's one of them) of the WCHA and CCHA to join forces, get rid of McClod, circle the wagons and really try to make whatever league it is competitive. Get people like Gino to help pump/lobby alumni and state officials for money to upgrade facilities so that some semblance of parity with the SuperLeague can be attempted. This is where Gino can help SCSU. Even he can't make gold out of straw. St. Cloud has a rabid fan base, which is an excellent start, and it has many alums who are in or who have been in the NHL. It has an excellent coaching staff, too. However, it's facilities, while nice, are sub par and aging. Time to make major improvements to NHC so as to increase seating capacity. Just think of poor Mankato. Jutting is a good coach but you should look at the practice facility. It's an ok building but it is NO D-1 practice facility. Plus, it's southern MN. While there are a lot of very good fans, it is not like St. Cloud or Duluth; maybe it will be in time. Plus, the Verizon Center is a lot like the NHC. That place loses money year in and year out and I would highly doubt that the City is going to be amenable to investing more money into it. The competitive potential for those schools will be set back a ton because of this, unfortunately. Hopefully, more David Backes, Matt Cullen, Mark Parrish, Brian Holzinger, Ryan Carter types who know they will get a TON more playing time at those schools will consider attending those schools.

Bottom Line: UND needed to do it. No one likes the fact that it must happen. It is being seen as a necessary "forced" decision because of the BTHC so blame the BTHC schools.

Everything was fine as it was but the arrogance of the B10 schools started the present domino effect. Silver lining: UAH finally gets into a conference and saves its program and alumni of struggling programs step up to assist their schools.

its not for lack of effort.NHC renovation

[mikejm]

^NHC renovations were to begin this week, but have been delayed because of the MN state government shutdown.

That being said, St. Cloud has always been a second-tier program, even with the headstart it received when Herb Brooks came on board to help it move to D-I in 1987 and get the NHC built. It has always been in the shadow of the UoM, leading to the Jan Brady State sobriquet. And JBSU is in serious financial trouble: they just announced they are shutting down their aviation program, and their football program barely survived an execution. I frankly, don't want to see the seismic changes in college hockey cause any programs to fold, but karma's a b*tch sometimes.

It is a lot more likely that a program like Mankato will fold, which would really be a shame. How many of you know Mankato is actually a one-time NCAA Hockey Champion (winning the DIII title in 1980)? They are geographically disadvantaged in Minnesota, and as Chewey has pointed out have an off-campus, city-owned rink.

Bemidji State is in a real pickle: big dough spent (and pledged to be donated) to build a really nice barn, and now the big-draw opponents are going to be playing elsewhere. There are probably some folks in Bemidji who are getting pretty nervous about how they are going to pay off the bonds used to build that nice new arena. And this is another former NCAA Championship team, winning one DIII title and five DII crowns.

Michigan Tech can likely survive, probably in a new conference (or a reconfigured CCHA), playing closer to home with similarly-sized schools, allowing them to cut their travel and operations budget. They'll take their beautiful, storied MacNaughton Cup with them to a new home.

Alaska-Anchorage is the odd-man out here: I think they have to look at either pulling Fairbanks into the WCHA with them, or try to jump into the CCHA. But travel costs are going to be crushing to them, to the point where we might see both Alaska schools quietly fade away or move into some sort of alliance with Canadian Universities.

The net for the schools, for the teams, and for college hockey is not positive from my view. The "raptured" teams are taking a lot more than just prestige and history with them to the new "super" conference: UND, DU et al put a lot of butts in the stands at these weaker sister arenas. Without that ticket revenue, there is likely a slow, painful-to-watch death to the teams left behind. I hope none of this comes to pass; that somehow the smaller, cheaper LBWCHA will attract new programs and give college hockey more teams. I doubt that, though.

The poetic justice that allows a small smile to spread across my face is that the buffoons in the WCHA's ivory palace in Denver — McLeod and Shepherd — will be left sitting at their desks wondering what the h*ll happened to them. Without really scrambling, the LBWCHA will be without an NCAA auto-bid, an embarrassing end to what has long been the very heart and soul of college hockey.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy that UND hockey has found a conference where it can play against similarly-motivated programs. I feared that the smaller schools left behind when the BTHC was announced would begin to exert their influence on the league, rotting the WCHA from within with scholarship cuts and other cost-cutting moves. This new raptured league should ensure a solid home for UND hockey for a long time to come. I just hope that it hasn't pulled the plug from the bottom of the pond: it is great to be a powerhouse, but if the sport of college hockey is further diminished in number, I wonder if there will come a day when we rue the rapture we are witnessing today.

[Hayduke]

Good point. Wasn't the CCHA the one who, after UNO announced its intent to joint the WCHA, closed the door on UAH's application to join the CCHA? Even though the CCHA would go down to 11 teams after UNO's departure, it still would not allow UAH in. What goes around comes around, I guess. UAH has had a fairly long go of hockey in a non-hockey area and, most years, they are fairly decent. The CCHA's puerile slap in the face may come back to haunt it now. UAH could have been going in its 2nd year of membership instead of languishing in the godforsaken independent realm.

Yeah, the CCHA slammed the door on UAH. I'm glad UND is moving into this new conference. But, I'd love to see UAH move into the WCHA and slam the door on the CCHA.

Or, as Virg Foss once called them, years ago when then perennial doormats Michigan State, Michigan and Notre Dame left the WCHA, the Can't Cut it Hockey Association!

[siouxnami]

Then to even it out, why don't you give me a +1 when I have a post that absolutely sucks! Plenty of opportunity there.

+1

[tnt]

I think it is very telling that Bruce McLeod says he has no idea this was in the works. Does this guy actually get paid? He had to be compelled to talk to Nebraska Omaha a few years ago, and he wasn't proactive enough after the Big Ten became a reality to find out what the peer institutions were thinking! It speaks volumes that he didn't have the relationships in place to make a brainstorming session (I know an oxymoron) with the remaining league members a priority. Nice leadership! And you wonder why people are bolting a league with that kind of leadership? Yes, they could have gotten rid of him, but people have felt this way about him for a long time, so why wasn't he already gone?

[Goon]

Hammy is saying this is all UND's fault.

Do you really care if Hammy blames UND? This is the same guy that told us Sandy was a lock for the PSU job...

[Goon]

Many of the SCSU fans here in St. Cloud that I've talked with wonder if they are being snubbed because of their former presidents mission to get our Sioux name taken away. They also wonder if their protesters they had at our games here had anything to do with it. Many believe that Gino will go to bat for them and try and get them into this new conference. What should I tell them?

I would say that it's probably not going to happen.

[GeauxSioux]

Analysis: College hockey's shifting will create opportunities

Instead of seeing this as a catastrophe, the schools left behind should be looking at the opportunity.

No, they won’t be getting a weekend boon in attendance when traditional powers such as UND, Minnesota and Wisconsin come into their buildings annually.

But the door is opening for these teams to annually compete for league championships and NCAA tournament berths.

Since moving to Division I, Alaska Anchorage, St. Cloud State and Minnesota State-Mankato have combined for zero conference titles and one NCAA tournament victory. Michigan Tech hasn’t won a conference title since 1976 and hasn’t made the NCAA tournament since 1981.

Are there challenges ahead for these schools? Sure there are, just as there are challenges ahead for UND and those going to the new conference.

Is the landscape going to look different? Absolutely.

Is this a death sentence for college hockey? No.

You make your opportunities.

[mikejm]

You make your opportunities.

I hope Brad is correct.

I know the opportunity is there; I'm just not sure that McSCU's budget woes and a McLeod-led left-behind WCHA are easily-overcome obstacles.

[hrkac]

Do you really care if Hammy blames UND? This is the same guy that told us Sandy was a lock for the PSU job...

Yeah...he exudes Goofer arrogance to the fullest. Blaming the other schools for doing what they think is best, while UM and UW started all this mess. It's pretty easy to say "B1G" was inevitable and UM had nothing to do with it, but then turn around and blame UND and DU for thinking for themselves on the deal??? his attitude is right in line with what I'd expect. basically, he says, ...we're set, but others shouldn't do anything that will kill the small guys. Doh-Kay. State of Hockey is a joke.

On the other hand, I don't totally believe this move is the best for college hockey or the Sioux. Personally as a fan, I will miss having most road games within driving distance.. The local connection and rivalries will be lost since it will hinder streams of Sioux fans traveling all over Minnesota to see games in opposing rinks like in present times. I do know that St.Cloud, Mankato, etc... will miss the added revenue the city receives as a result of UND not playing in those arenas year after year. also, the regional rivalries and fan interaction will fade away.

One thing i do disagree with most college bloggers is that the lost revenue at the rinks for teams that are left out. i have seen some of our best Sioux teams play in front of 800-1200 spectators at opposing rinks. if not for Sioux fans, the buildings would be empty. so, i don't think rink revenue will suffer all that much for the left behind schools at the gate. Michigan Tech will still have the same amount of fans at the games in Houghton whether they play Mankato or North Dakota.. Revenue sharing with tournaments etc, is the killer for them.

[rochsioux]

Should Notre Dame decide to go to Hockey East then I would assume Western Michigan will be out of the new conference.

That would leave:

Big 10 with 6 teams, 20 game conf sched.

New "Super" Conf with 6 teams and a likely 20 game sched.

Remaining CCHA/WCHA would be 11 teams, adding UAH would make it 12. Have one conf with 22 game sched or two separate six team conf with 20 game sched.

This would leave many non-conf games for all western teams (max of 34 games not counting trips to Alaska, Icebreaker, or Hall of Fame game).

Every team could still schedule a lot of non-conf games against former conf rivals.

In the long run this may be beneficial to a lot of the teams left in the WCHA/CCHA as they would greatly improve their chances of making the NC$$ tourny, especially if they could form two 6-team conferences. Some of these schools that would likely never get a sniff of the tourny in the past would now go into each season with a chance at making it. They would still be able to get some home games against rivals like UND, Denver,etc...even the Big10 schools will have to have a few road series. If they form one big conf and play a 28 game schedule then that would be a huge mistake imho as It would leave little room for non-conf games and would probably ensure that some schools drop hockey.

Over time having 4 conferences with six teams would provide plenty of opportunity for new schools to add hockey. The obvious danger is that with only six schools you can't afford to lose even one school or you jepordize your auto bid.

[Chewey]

New name for Super Conference:

Super 8,

The Super

S 8

Siouxper 8 - No need to pay royalties to Super 8

Developing.........