Protest at Homecoming

[TheGreatSiouxNation]

Ira, I'm pretty sure you will be wrong on this one. (I pray!) When we win the lawsuit vs. NCAA those schools who refuse to schedule us will look petty. The Rodents would love football vs. UND because of our TRADITION vs. them (not a perchieved one like The Sister to the South.) Plus the Dome will be sold out because Sioux fans travel. The cost of changing it means fewer athletic dollars for our DI move. But we need to stop this thinking of changing the name. Without the supporters staying steadfast the Nickname Nazi's will get their way and the school will cowardly change it. Do I have to remind us of the way GF Central and the way a few (who no longer even live in GF) got that nickname changed?

[TheGreatSiouxNation]

I almost forgot. I'm glad this group is out there protesting against Auggie for using the "Vikings". I think we should help these 5 people out and make this a huge turnout against the "Vikings" nickname! Drown these people out by just standing with them and our "Norwegians are not mascots" signs. A perfect way for this nonsense to stop. A group of people standing up for Norwegians in Norway who have no voice!

[Chewey]

Ira, I'm pretty sure you will be wrong on this one. (I pray!) When we win the lawsuit vs. NCAA those schools who refuse to schedule us will look petty. The Rodents would love football vs. UND because of our TRADITION vs. them (not a perchieved one like The Sister to the South.) Plus the Dome will be sold out because Sioux fans travel. The cost of changing it means fewer athletic dollars for our DI move. But we need to stop this thinking of changing the name. Without the supporters staying steadfast the Nickname Nazi's will get their way and the school will cowardly change it. Do I have to remind us of the way GF Central and the way a few (who no longer even live in GF) got that nickname changed?

Do you really think UM would schedule UND in football? They need to schedule teams they can win against. Macalester (a sausage squad in D3), Augsburg, Aurora.....Maybe the UM could beat those teams. I don't think any kind of D1 street cred or status could be gained for UND by playing those losers anyway. Talk about a year after year embarassment.

[mksioux]

The Rodents would love football vs. UND because of our TRADITION vs. them (not a perchieved one like The Sister to the South.) Plus the Dome will be sold out because Sioux fans travel.

While it's true that Joel Maturi (MN's AD) would like to schedule UND in football, it will not happen. There is no way he will expend his own political capital to fight our cause. The Gophers move into TCF Bank Stadium (cap. 50,000) in 2009, so the DOME is irrelevent. The Gophers will sell out TCF with any of the three Dakota schools, so they don't need UND for their regional I-AA opponent. Sioux-Gophers football will simply never happen.

[mksioux]

The NCAA has admitted off the record they screwed up with the name issue but mainly with not following their own procedures and how it was handled.

Do you have inside information on that? Please ellaborate.

They can lose the lawsuit, come back and if they follow their own guidelines, they can make it stick next time.

I agree with you 100%.

[The Sicatoka]

How would a hypothesized change in two years help a president search now?

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

I never want to see the name changed. If we can't play UM and UW, so be it. Just because something is "hard" to do, doesn't mean you don't do it. I hope and pray UND never changes their nickname. University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux Forever!!

[Goon]

Do you really think UM would schedule UND in football? They need to schedule teams they can win against. Macalester (a sausage squad in D3), Augsburg, Aurora.....Maybe the UM could beat those teams. I don't think any kind of D1 street cred or status could be gained for UND by playing those losers anyway. Talk about a year after year embarassment.

No kidding did you see that clown that was running down the field after the blocked kick and the moron fumbled the ball. I would have sat him on the bench for the rest of the game and half of the next one. If the Gophers hadn't had 5+ turnovers they probably would have won the game.

As for the name WHY GO TO court if your going to change the name. It's not going to happen that way.

[siouxhockeyfan11]

UND is going to change the name. With the move to D1 we are having some big problems with scheduling and that includes U of Mn., and U of Wisconcisn. Both of them are in our prime recruiting areas and those kids who will come to UND to play, that might be D1 recruited walk-ons, are more likely to come to a place where periodically they will be able to go up against the so-called big dogs. They want to play rather than sit on the bench at a big school, but they also want the satisfaction of knowing what it is like to play at the highest level. The name isn't worth hurting recruiting or scheduling over.

There are a number of people intersted in the Presidents position at UND who want the issue solved before they come on board. They think they will have better things to do than deal with the activists or NCAA.

The NCAA has admitted off the record they screwed up with the name issue but mainly with not following their own procedures and how it was handled. They can lose the lawsuit, come back and if they follow their own guidelines, they can make it stick next time. The name isn't worth losing good candidates for president or hurting relationships with coorporations and governments who may have grant dollars.

Lastly, if the Native American leaders, whomever they may be, keep focusing on the name and blaming their problems on the name issue, instead of leading their people, then indirectly it will hurt their kids and it is no longer worth the hassle. The leadership on many of the reservations is so inadequate that if getting rid of the name helps only a handful of kids then lets change and get on with life.

The only way I would even consider keeping the name would be if the tribes (without prompting) came back to UND and requested the name be kept. ( I am pretty sure that won't happen). I would also require they put their money where their mouths have been and start cooperative programs for their youth to make sure the kids are healthy and safe and properly educated. I have worked with schools and programs for those kids and the kids themselves will tell you the biggest problems they have are their own parents and tribal leaders. They want to allowed to be kids. They could care less what the excuses are but they don't want to have the violence, drug use and umemployment used as excuses for dysfunctional families. They could care less about most of the cultural things until they get older. That is the sma ewith almost all kids. They just want to fit in and be kids and enjoy the same things other kids do. Unless the Fighting Sioux name can help those kids it is time to change. I have always thought it could and should be used to help reservation kids, be you can't fight the ignorance and racial bias we often face in dealing with the leadership at the reservations in order to accomplish what could have been done.

It was done with respect and honor by UND, with the approval of the vast majority of Native Americans in the state and the logo is outstanding but it is going to have to change and it isn't worth fighting over anymore. I also believe the wheels of change are already rolling and the change will come within the next year or two.

If they change the sioux name then the "native americans" will lose their free tuition(or at least they should) and then they'll be complaining about that to.

[choyt3]

If they change the sioux name then the "native americans" will lose their free tuition(or at least they should) and then they'll be complaining about that to.

Good one.

[PCM]

My understanding is that the next president of UND will be selected about five months from now. If that's that case, how will changing the nickname in a year or two make any difference to the current selection process? Unless the State Board of Higher Education can guarantee potential candidates that the name will be changed in the near future, the next president will have to deal with the issue -- like it or not.

The current Minnesota football coach says he has no interest in playing NDSU. If that's the case, why would he feel any differently about playing UND? Until I know for certain that the Fighting Sioux nickname is the only obstacle standing between UND and the scheduling of games with DI-A opponents, I'll continue to believe that surrendering the nickname on the off chance that UND might one day play Minnesota or Wisconsin in football is not a reasonable tradeoff.

I also believe that there is value in challenging the NCAA and forcing it to follow its own rules and regulations. If UND wins its lawsuit and the NCAA Executive Committee then wins approval for the anti-nickname policy by a vote of the organization's members, then so be it. But until that happens, I'm not going to assume that it's an automatic slam-dunk.

Furthermore, I don't believe for a second that UND changing its nickname will result in any positive change in the education of American Indian children. Why? Because both of South Dakota's two major universities have animal nicknames and the education conditions on reseverations in that state are no better than they are in North Dakota.

I'm not saying that UND should never change its nickname under any circumstances. However, the scheduling of athletic events against certain opponents is not enough for me to abandon my principles. I've said this before, and I'll say it again:

I've lived in Grand Forks for 15 years and worked for UND almost the entire time. I am proud of UND. I am proud of my community. And I am sickened that the NCAA Executive Committee, without even setting foot on campus, can slap the label of racism on my employer and the town in which my children were raised.

The idea that all of us who live here and work day in and day out to make UND what it is and Grand Forks what it is are "hostile and abusive" to American Indians is patently absurd. It's wrong. It's not just a lie, it's damn hateful, despicable lie.

[JESUS,family,rutgers]

Guys,

Is the Alerus Center on university-owned land or is it on privately-owned land? If it is on private land, they should only be letting people into the area who are going into the dome. Why are they letting protesters of any kind near the stadium?

[PCM]

Guys,

Is the Alerus Center on university-owned land or is it on privately-owned land?

The Alerus Center is owned by the city of Grand Forks.

[Chewey]

I never want to see the name changed. If we can't play UM and UW, so be it. Just because something is "hard" to do, doesn't mean you don't do it. I hope and pray UND never changes their nickname. University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux Forever!!

Agree. If UM and UW refuse to play us, so be it. To the fan base, they will be the ones looking foolish. I suggest that we refuse to play Iowa because the the pink locker room that they put the vistiing team in. That should be offensive and hostile to homosexual groups and probably women shouldn't it?

[Northcountry]

The Alerus Center is owned by the city of Grand Forks.

And the $10 that will be collected in parking fees from the protestors may be enough to put operations for the Alerus in the black.

[Sioux-cia]

Good one.

Native Americans who attend the University of North Dakota do not receive free tuition.

[BigGame]

Nickname opponents to protest at Homecoming game

A post to make Teeder11 happy.

Why in the world would a person attend UND if the name Fighting Sioux offends them so much?

[iramurphy]

Agree. If UM and UW refuse to play us, so be it. To the fan base, they will be the ones looking foolish. I suggest that we refuse to play Iowa because the the pink locker room that they put the vistiing team in. That should be offensive and hostile to homosexual groups and probably women shouldn't it?

PCM has a good points but if you think it is just Wisconsin and Minnesota you are wrong. They won't look foolish to any fan base but some of ours and after a few years of lost revenue and opportunites, I wonder who would look foolish. According to some of the coaches it is an issue right now. Games against these schools are the ones that can bring in the 6 figure guarantees and are part of the budgeting for the move to D1. It won't be smart to "win the battle and lose the war" and miss opportunites to recruit kids or generate income because we can't get over the Fighting Sioux issue. It will be difficult enough to make the move to D1 without having problems we can avoid. Our opponents are on the field of play, basket ball and volleyball courts or ice arenas not in a court of law, nor at a tribal council meeting.

I am not saying we should not see the lawsuit through. We should win the thing and try and come away with a reasonable settlement that allows UND to solve the issue on our own time in order to minimize the cost. If we can be awarded any damages so much the better.

There is no sense in making our point, however valid, and then having higher travel costs to play further away or missing opportunites to have a better schedule because of this issue. It isn't a win or lose proposition it is a lose-lose deal. What do we accomplish if we keep the name and play Crookston or U of Mary instead of the Gophers or Wisconsin in FB, BB, VB or soccer? We will probably paly them anyway in some sports.

An attorney who is very close to the situation Feels UND has a good chance of winning this suit because the NCAA didn't follow its own rules, but feels the NCAA will be able to make sanctions and restrictions stick once they follow their own guidelines .

The pink locker room is irrelevant to us. I have been in it and it is unique. It isn't offensive and I wear pink sometimes and thus far don't seem to be a homosexual but I roomed with one once. He would have gotten a kick out of the pink locker room.

[siouxlove]

Just curious, what coaches think our name and logo may be an issue when deciding if they want to compete against us in a sport?

I don't believe that the NC$$ will get the votes to impose sanctions and restrictions for the use of a Native American name or logo after they lose the lawsuit.

[SiouxMeNow]

Maybe someone should videotape them right back. I am sure they will try to disrupt the peaceful crowd trying to watch a game. And it would just suck to get that on tape. I hope the protesters get arrested and get thrown in jail with a bunch of Sioux fans.

hmmm....perhaps someone WILL be videotaping the protester antics....AND asking them why they are INCITING angry reactions - check out the local newscasts saturday night.

[KEH]

They won't let them inside...They don't let anti-war protestors inside the capital do they?

[Oxbow6]

UND is going to change the name. With the move to D1 we are having some big problems with scheduling and that includes U of Mn., and U of Wisconcisn. Both of them are in our prime recruiting areas and those kids who will come to UND to play, that might be D1 recruited walk-ons, are more likely to come to a place where periodically they will be able to go up against the so-called big dogs. They want to play rather than sit on the bench at a big school, but they also want the satisfaction of knowing what it is like to play at the highest level. The name isn't worth hurting recruiting or scheduling over.

There are a number of people intersted in the Presidents position at UND who want the issue solved before they come on board. They think they will have better things to do than deal with the activists or NCAA.

The NCAA has admitted off the record they screwed up with the name issue but mainly with not following their own procedures and how it was handled. They can lose the lawsuit, come back and if they follow their own guidelines, they can make it stick next time. The name isn't worth losing good candidates for president or hurting relationships with coorporations and governments who may have grant dollars.

Lastly, if the Native American leaders, whomever they may be, keep focusing on the name and blaming their problems on the name issue, instead of leading their people, then indirectly it will hurt their kids and it is no longer worth the hassle. The leadership on many of the reservations is so inadequate that if getting rid of the name helps only a handful of kids then lets change and get on with life.

The only way I would even consider keeping the name would be if the tribes (without prompting) came back to UND and requested the name be kept. ( I am pretty sure that won't happen). I would also require they put their money where their mouths have been and start cooperative programs for their youth to make sure the kids are healthy and safe and properly educated. I have worked with schools and programs for those kids and the kids themselves will tell you the biggest problems they have are their own parents and tribal leaders. They want to allowed to be kids. They could care less what the excuses are but they don't want to have the violence, drug use and umemployment used as excuses for dysfunctional families. They could care less about most of the cultural things until they get older. That is the sma ewith almost all kids. They just want to fit in and be kids and enjoy the same things other kids do. Unless the Fighting Sioux name can help those kids it is time to change. I have always thought it could and should be used to help reservation kids, be you can't fight the ignorance and racial bias we often face in dealing with the leadership at the reservations in order to accomplish what could have been done.

It was done with respect and honor by UND, with the approval of the vast majority of Native Americans in the state and the logo is outstanding but it is going to have to change and it isn't worth fighting over anymore. I also believe the wheels of change are already rolling and the change will come within the next year or two.

That is the bottom line: Lack of accountabililty and leadership by the state's Native American "leaders" as a whole. Where is their protest or platform against generations of unemployment, alcoholism, high high school drop-out rates and high rates of teen pregnancies just to name a few of their social/cultural ills? The blame for their problems has and always will come from some other entity other than looking in the mirror and facing the facts that generation apon generation of lack of own personal responsibility is why their "culture" continues to struggle!! The nickname/logo excuse is just that--an excuse--to hide from the real issues at hand the plague our state's Native American population. They, the PC crowd, can protest all they want, but it is hard to hear their voice and reasoning on the UND nickname/logo issue when you never hear them take a stance on what the REAL issues are in the Indian culture. If changing the logo/nickname brings more respect to the Native American people themselves and in turn makes them want to take more responsibility/accountability for themselves, I am all for it. But if anyone thinks that changing the UND name is going to get a 16 year old male on the reservation to say "Now I have more respect for myself and now I will further my education and be a better contributing member to society" you are fooling yourself. I also believe change is in the future: the logo/nicknames--yes, but not the continued cultural problems of the Native American people in ND because frankly, as it has been in the past, it is always easier to point the finger at something or someone else for your problems!

[AccountingStu]

That is the bottom line: Lack of accountabililty and leadership by the state's Native American "leaders" as a whole. Where is their protest or platform against generations of unemployment, alcoholism, high high school drop-out rates and high rates of teen pregnancies just to name a few of their social/cultural ills? The blame for their problems has and always will come from some other entity other than looking in the mirror and facing the facts that generation apon generation of lack of own personal responsibility is why their "culture" continues to struggle!! The nickname/logo excuse is just that--an excuse--to hide from the real issues at hand the plague our state's Native American population. They, the PC crowd, can protest all they want, but it is hard to hear their voice and reasoning on the UND nickname/logo issue when you never hear them take a stance on what the REAL issues are in the Indian culture. If changing the logo/nickname brings more respect to the Native American people themselves and in turn makes them want to take more responsibility/accountability for themselves, I am all for it. But if anyone thinks that changing the UND name is going to get a 16 year old male on the reservation to say "Now I have more respect for myself and now I will further my education and be a better contributing member to society" you are fooling yourself. I also believe change is in the future: the logo/nicknames--yes, but not the continued cultural problems of the Native American people in ND because frankly, as it has been in the past, it is always easier to point the finger at something or someone else for your problems!

So now that your done pointing your finger, and you know the "REAL issues" of Indian culture, how are YOU going to help ease the "continued cultural problems" of our fellow people? Don't forget about the lack of leadership from white people, your 4 alcoholic uncles, the three cousins you have who dropped out of school because of drugs and teenage pregnancy blah blah blah. What humanity needs is a leader, any leader, who can lead us all in the pursuit of happiness...Start by being a leader at home, and don't teach your children the nonsense you hoarked in your post.

Happy Day!

[SiouxCrioux1]

So now that your done pointing your finger, and you know the "REAL issues" of Indian culture, how are YOU going to help ease the "continued cultural problems" of our fellow people? Don't forget about the lack of leadership from white people, your 4 alcoholic uncles, the three cousins you have who dropped out of school because of drugs and teenage pregnancy blah blah blah. What humanity needs is a leader, any leader, who can lead us all in the pursuit of happiness...Start by being a leader at home, and don't teach your children the nonsense you hoarked in your post.

Happy Day!

Not trying to start a race war or anything but at least the "white people" you refer to are trying to change the things that matter with troubled families. Not trying to push the blame at a university logo and saying that is the reason our youth is mislead.

[Oxbow6]

So now that your done pointing your finger, and you know the "REAL issues" of Indian culture, how are YOU going to help ease the "continued cultural problems" of our fellow people? Don't forget about the lack of leadership from white people, your 4 alcoholic uncles, the three cousins you have who dropped out of school because of drugs and teenage pregnancy blah blah blah. What humanity needs is a leader, any leader, who can lead us all in the pursuit of happiness...Start by being a leader at home, and don't teach your children the nonsense you hoarked in your post.

Happy Day!

Since you are obviously leaning to left in your ideology, don't face east today or the strong south wind will blow you completely on our head! There is no pointing of the finger, just wanting the same enthusiasm and zeal from those, and obviously you, who feel the logo and nickname is an issue to tackle those other Native American issues that seem to be irrelevant by those same people. Facts are facts. Leadership is leadership, but as the old "Cowboy" saying goes, "You can only bring a horse to water..." I'm not going to get into a tit for tat. Your opinion is that...just an opinion as is mine, but instead of taking insulting shots at an opinion you don't like, how about providing some facts or insight as to what solutions are being provided for the "continued cultural problems of our fellow people". Your insight would be welcomed...