Mid Con vs. Big Sky

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Which conference to you believe is better, the Mid Con-Gateway or the Big Sky? The Big Sky has all sports including football. Where as in the Mid Con, football would be in a different conference. The Big Sky has Montana and Montana State but one or both of them might go D1-A. The Mid Con and Gateway (probable) have long time rivals NDSU and SDSU. The Mid Con-Gateway also has easier tavel.

Edit: Please explain your choice. Thanks

[dmksioux]

Which conference to you believe is better, the Mid Con-Gateway or the Big Sky? The Big Sky has all sports including football. Where as in the Mid Con, football would be in a different conference. The Big Sky has Montana and Montana State but one or both of them might go D1-A. The Mid Con and Gateway (probable) have long time rivals NDSU and SDSU. The Mid Con-Gateway also has easier tavel.

Edit: Please explain your choice. Thanks

A conference is a conference...I just hope we get into one sooner rather than later. I did vote for Midcon for a couple of reasons. First off I tend to prefer the Midcon due to it's being in the same time zone as UND. I would also like to see us in the same conference's as the SU's as well. There are several positives about the BSC as well.

[star2city]

Big Sky - PROs

Better fit for alumni

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Could you guys who voted for "other" please explain it? I have no idea what that other conference might be. Thanks.

[dakotadan]

I'd like to see the WCHA start sponsoring more sports, so I voted for other.

If not the WCHA, then I'd vote for the Horizon League.

[BostonSiouxFan]

This is all a moot point until one or more of these conferences invites UND to join.

[Goon]

I'd like to see the WCHA start sponsoring more sports, so I voted for other.

If not the WCHA, then I'd vote for the Horizon League.

They don't have football anymore.

[bincitysioux]

I'd prefer the Big Sky and echo all of the reasons stated by star2city. But if the Mid-Con came calling early on I would jump at the chance to join.

I prefer the Big Sky for obvious reasons. Games with large public universities that are similar in scope to UND like Montana, Montana St., Idaho, and Weber St. That combined with non-conference games in fb and bb with NDSU and SDSU would make for nice schedules every year.

[MplsBison]

Not a single school in the Big Sky, save Montana and Montana State, are the same in scope or mission as UND.

Idaho State? Nope. It's a former junior college that gained 4 year status some years ago and is trying to add programs. But it's no where close to Idaho and never will be.

Weber State? Even farther. They don't even grant PhDs. They're soley undergrad education and are 4th or 5th fiddle in the state behind Utah, BYU, and Utah State, at least.

Bottom line, if you get in the Big Sky and Montana and Montana State leave, you've basically alligned yourself with a bunch of former junior colleges who are at least 1000 miles away. Have fun.

[GeauxSioux]

Not a single school in the Big Sky, save Montana and Montana State, are the same in scope or mission as UND.

Idaho State? Nope. It's a former junior college that gained 4 year status some years ago and is trying to add programs. But it's no where close to Idaho and never will be.

Weber State? Even farther. They don't even grant PhDs. They're soley undergrad education and are 4th or 5th fiddle in the state behind Utah, BYU, and Utah State, at least.

Bottom line, if you get in the Big Sky and Montana and Montana State leave, you've basically alligned yourself with a bunch of former junior colleges who are at least 1000 miles away. Have fun.

If the Big Sky is such a bad proposition, why was NDSU trying desperately to be invited to join?

[Bison Dan]

If the Big Sky is such a bad proposition, why was NDSU trying desperately to be invited to join?

Because at the time they were the only conference that was in a somewhat expansion mode.

[star2city]

Not a single school in the Big Sky, save Montana and Montana State, are the same in scope or mission as UND.

Idaho State? Nope. It's a former junior college that gained 4 year status some years ago and is trying to add programs. But it's no where close to Idaho and never will be.

Weber State? Even farther. They don't even grant PhDs. They're soley undergrad education and are 4th or 5th fiddle in the state behind Utah, BYU, and Utah State, at least.

Bottom line, if you get in the Big Sky and Montana and Montana State leave, you've basically alligned yourself with a bunch of former junior colleges who are at least 1000 miles away. Have fun.

And the MidCon is filled with schools with long pedigrees.

Strange how NDSU and SDSU being aligned with a bunch of former junior colleges who are 500-1000 miles away is now such a wonderous choice.

In the history of the Big SKy, the addition of Boise St probably caused the most academic consternation, because they were just a few years from JC status, and look where they are now. BTW, Idaho State received four year status in the '20's while, BSU moved in the '60's.

How long have IPFW, IUPUI, Oakland, UMKC, and Oral Roberts U been around?

[sultan]

The Bison fans are being totally hippicritical on this issue. At the time they did nothing but talk down any other potential conference as being anything even comparable to the Big Sky. So for them to now talk down the Big Sky is total "BULL". That's just like coach Bohl talking on the radio last Saturday the fact that NDSU is trying to get the NCAA to allow NDSU into to the playoffs this year since they have such a good record. He said hopefully the NCAA would make an exception for NDSU. Talk about arrogance. When Dr. Kupchella mentioned that he hopes that the NCAA would some day drop their policy of having to take all our sports to DI and enable a school to just move up in say just football, he suggested the change would be possible for all schools..not just UND. Ndsu is hoping the NCAA would change their rules for just NDSU. Now that is arrogance.

[bincitysioux]

Not a single school in the Big Sky, save Montana and Montana State, are the same in scope or mission as UND.

Idaho State? Nope. It's a former junior college that gained 4 year status some years ago and is trying to add programs. But it's no where close to Idaho and never will be.

Weber State? Even farther. They don't even grant PhDs. They're soley undergrad education and are 4th or 5th fiddle in the state behind Utah, BYU, and Utah State, at least.

Bottom line, if you get in the Big Sky and Montana and Montana State leave, you've basically alligned yourself with a bunch of former junior colleges who are at least 1000 miles away. Have fun.

Montana schools aside...........

Idaho St. would be more intriguing to myself and I think most UND fans than say IUPUI, IPFW, Oakland because it is a state named school with an enrollment similar to that of UND.

Weber St. would be more intriguing to myself and I think most UND fans than say Centenary because it is a large public university in a large market that has some history of athletic success like in basketball.

I'll even throw in Northern Colorado (despite their recent troubles) is more attractive than say Southern Utah because they are familiar to UND fans, and may provide the opportunity for games on the Altitude network.

Denver (however unlikely) is a known target for future Big Sky expansion. If they and UND were ever in the same all sports conference, UND fans would be very interested in those games.

The other big advantage of the Big Sky is that football would be in the same conference as all the other sports. That would help to develop rivalries for all sports rather than having to have different rivals for basketball and different ones for football.

Having said all that, I'd be ecstatic if the Mid-Con invited UND at some point during the transition.

[WYOBISONMAN]

OK sioux fans.....I had to learn this chant too.......repeat after me.......

Any conference.........

again........

Any Conference........

[nodakvindy]

Count me in for the Mid-Con. It is a better fit with schools that are closer than the Big Sky, and also better matches UND's sports offerings. It is also closer to the main alumni base in North Dakota and Minnesota. And now it has traditional rivals with NDSU and SDSU. It makes a lot more sense to quickly re-establish those rivalries in a conference setting, than trying to do so with non-conference games. Working against the Big Sky is that time zone issue, with many away games starting late in the evening for broadcast purposes, think UAA hockey. Also, many of the schools are at altitude, putting UND at a not insignificant disadvantage. It terms of prestige, that's really negligible, we're not talking BCS conference here, or even a well known Mid-major like the MAC or Missouri Valley. These are one-bid leagues for hoops. The only thing remotely attractive about the Big Sky is Montana and Montana St., and even then, of the border state ties to Montana are the weakest.

[star2city]

The membership overlap of the WCHA and NCC gave UND a rather ideal situation for continuity of rivalries between sports. With the move to DI, that will not be the case, as neither the MidCon nor the Big Sky (unless Denver joins) will have any common members with the WCHA.

If UND was to join the MidCon, effectively UND would have three separate groups of conference opponents for all three revenue sports of hockey, football, and basketball. It becomes much harder for the average fan to even identify if the opponent is a conference team. A WCHA / Big Sky combo gives UND's conference opponents a much clearer identity than a WCHA/MidCon/Gateway (or even Great West) triad. That is important both for marketing the UND athletics brand and for defining UND as an institution.

[MplsBison]

My point is simple.

If you join the Big Sky, Montana (State) might leave. If they do, then what?

If you join the Mid Con, NDSU, SDSU, and potentially USD will always be there, at least as long as UND is. If you can get into the Gateway, UNI also will be there for as long as UND is.

All the rest of the schools in both conferences are former junior colleges or teaching colleges that are quite a distance away.

[mksioux]

My point is simple.

If you join the Big Sky, Montana (State) might leave. If they do, then what?

If you join the Mid Con, NDSU, SDSU, and potentially USD will always be there, at least as long as UND is. If you can get into the Gateway, UNI also will be there for as long as UND is.

All the rest of the schools in both conferences are former junior colleges or teaching colleges that are quite a distance away.

The potential flight risk of the Montana schools is the biggest reason I voted for MidCon/Gateway. While UND obviously would accept an invitation into any conference, a Montana-less Big Sky (or even the possibility of a Montana-less Big Sky) is far less ideal than Mid-Con/Gateway IMO. I'd be interested in people's thoughts on how big the flight risk is for the Montana schools.

And I suspect if the people who frequent this board are evenly divided (which it appears they are), the average UND fan who doesn't visit this board would be overwhelmingly in support of joining whatever conference NDSU is in.

[bincitysioux]

The potential flight risk of the Montana schools is the biggest reason I voted for MidCon/Gateway. While UND obviously would accept an invitation into any conference, a Montana-less Big Sky (or even the possibility of a Montana-less Big Sky) is far less ideal than Mid-Con/Gateway IMO. I'd be interested in people's thoughts on how big the flight risk is for the Montana schools.

And I suspect if the people who frequent this board are evenly divided (which it appears they are), the average UND fan who doesn't visit this board would be overwhelmingly in support of joining whatever conference NDSU is in.

I feel that adding a school or schools like UND and/or Denver would lessen the flight risk of the Montana schools. Both of their schools, or at least their fans, were very supportive of the idea of adding NDSU and SDSU. There is no compelling reason to think that they'd feel otherwise about UND is there?

[WYOBISONMAN]

There are a lot of NDSU Alums in the West. I would also suspect that the pattern for UND is similar. other than MN, I would suspect there are large numbers of UND alums in Denver, Seattle, and Phoenix. Montana also probably has a lot of alums. I would actually argue that when MN is removed, there are more alums in the West than the East. Here is a map of the NDSU alumni distribution.

[MplsBison]

I feel that adding a school or schools like UND and/or Denver would lessen the flight risk of the Montana schools. Both of their schools, or at least their fans, were very supportive of the idea of adding NDSU and SDSU. There is no compelling reason to think that they'd feel otherwise about UND is there?

Then again, if SUU is added to the Big Sky to even bball numbers like I think they will, a set of events could easily be put in motion to get Montana upgraded to I-A and perhaps in the WAC. Montana State would probably try to follow.

If that scenario plays out in the next 3 years and UND is still independant (expcept for the Great West) in 2009, would you then accept an invitation from a Montana/MSU less Big Sky when an invitation from the Mid Con could come at any time?

[aff]

Then again, if SUU is added to the Big Sky to even bball numbers like I think they will, a set of events could easily be put in motion to get Montana upgraded to I-A and perhaps in the WAC. Montana State would probably try to follow.

If that scenario plays out in the next 3 years and UND is still independant (expcept for the Great West) in 2009, would you then accept an invitation from a Montana/MSU less Big Sky when an invitation from the Mid Con could come at any time?

If S. Utah leaves the conference UTPA will be added as their replacement. UND would do nothing to guarantee the viability of the mid-con, while UTPA would help.

[MplsBison]

It's hard to give a logical response to an illogical, hate based one liner.

I understand that UTPA is an active DI member (not sure if they're a core member or not).

That really doesn't mean much to me, though.

By 2009 both NDSU and SDSU will be active members.

UND (and USD for that matter) offer far more in terms of market, facilities, and reduced travel cost than UTPA.

Not to mention the sanctions against UTPA that got them kicked out of their previous conference.

Wouldn't touch them with a long pole.

[star2city]

It's hard to give a logical response to an illogical, hate based one liner.

I understand that UTPA is an active DI member (not sure if they're a core member or not).

That really doesn't mean much to me, though.

By 2009 both NDSU and SDSU will be active members.

UND (and USD for that matter) offer far more in terms of market, facilities, and reduced travel cost than UTPA.

Not to mention the sanctions against UTPA that got them kicked out of their previous conference.

Wouldn't touch them with a long pole.

We've been through this before, MplsBison. UTPA is both a core and an active DI member.

By 2009, NDSU and SDSU will be active DI members, but it would still be another seven years, 2016, before they are core DI members. DI conferences need to maintain two requirements: 7 DI core members plus of the 6 DI core members must have been together for five years.

Aff is actually correct. If the MidCon loses another core member, it will practically be forced to add UTPA (assuming no other core DI member will join.)

New move-ups to DI will only get invited to the MidCon if it goes to 12 members.