yzerman19 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I agree with a lot of what Dagies says, but I don't think MN has the firepower that he does. Great incoming class, but the returners aren't top end scorers. Will Wheeler become the first rounder he could be or will he be another Tallackson? Can Howe make the next step going from good to great? The one piece that is ultra important that Dagies missed onthe report card is coaching. While Delta Don is a fabulous coach, Hakstol has been remarkable with Frozen Four appearances in his first two years! Before the Holy Cross let down I would've given both head coaches an A, but after that I give Delta an A-. Slight edge UND. If Okposo has a year like Oshie did last year, it will make the difference between a contender and an also ran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I agree that Briggs wasn't the reason Minnesota lost in overtime. The game-winner was a rather strange goal which became possible because of half-hearted backchecking by the Gopher forwards. However, you can't absolve completely Briggs of any blame for the loss. He did give up on the Crusaders' third goal that sent the game into overtime. My overall point though is that I don't think Gopher fans should be worried about Briggs next season and that if we really should be, it's not because of what happened against HC. The key here is that I'm not trying to absolve Briggs but rather spreading the blame around to where I think it's more deserved. I noted before that had Briggs played a bit better perhaps the Gophers would not have lost, but the entire team didn't deserve to beat HC because the entire team played poorly. They weren't aggressive, didn't go after loose pucks with fervor, weren't crisp in the passing game and as Sagard noted took too many penalties. That was a total lack of team effort imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I'm not trying to turn this into a Gopher thread but Wheeler had more points in less games during his freshman year than Irmen did, so keep that in mind. Howe is dealing with medical issues but should be a scorer if they can resolve his issues. How can anyone take Hakstol over Lucia at this point? I know Hakstol hasn't had as many shots as Lucia has, but in (all things considered) a pretty short period of time, Lucia has a pair of NCAA titles, a pair of Broadmoors, and a MacNaughton. I wouldn't let the Holy Cross loss overshadow a pretty good tenure at UM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I agree with a lot of what Dagies says, but I don't think MN has the firepower that he does. Great incoming class, but the returners aren't top end scorers. Will Wheeler become the first rounder he could be or will he be another Tallackson? Can Howe make the next step going from good to great? The one piece that is ultra important that Dagies missed onthe report card is coaching. While Delta Don is a fabulous coach, Hakstol has been remarkable with Frozen Four appearances in his first two years! Before the Holy Cross let down I would've given both head coaches an A, but after that I give Delta an A-. Slight edge UND. If Okposo has a year like Oshie did last year, it will make the difference between a contender and an also ran. No arguing with my points is allowed. MODERATOR! MODERATOR!!! You do make a fair point about MN's offense. What I felt is that they don't possess the top end returners that UND does but that they have a deeper core of offense on paper, and are probably bringing in more offense in the incoming class. That's what's really subjective about these sorts of predictions. Gordon had about 12 goals last year. Will he build on that? Will he be playing with similar quality teammates this year? We won't know until skates hit the ice. Will Kaip pick up where he left off the year last year? If so he might get 12-15 goals this year, instead of 3. Who knows? I'm only guessing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I'm not trying to turn this into a Gopher thread but Wheeler had more points in less games during his freshman year than Irmen did, so keep that in mind. Howe is dealing with medical issues but should be a scorer if they can resolve his issues. How can anyone take Hakstol over Lucia at this point? I know Hakstol hasn't had as many shots as Lucia has, but in (all things considered) a pretty short period of time, Lucia has a pair of NCAA titles, a pair of Broadmoors, and a MacNaughton. I wouldn't let the Holy Cross loss overshadow a pretty good tenure at UM. First off, even with that number you cite, I'd still take Irman over Wheeler at this point. That guy has shown nothing so far, IMO. I know draft location really doesn't indicate much collegiately, but until he plays like a 5th overall pick, he'll be a bust. I mean, look at previous players drafted in that position: Vanek, Kessel.... I'd take both of THEM before I would take Wheeler. Sorry, Cardinal, but Wheeler is an ok player, but I wouldn't even say he's good at this point. Maybe this season will change things, but I'll believe that when I see it. As for the Lucia v Hakstol comparison, I don't understand it either. Lucia is on his 3rd team and has far more years in coaching than Hakstol. I really don't know what Lucia did in his first 3 years of coaching, but that's the only comparison that would probably fit. Blais v. Lucia worked. This comparison, IMO, doesn't. That being said, I don't care who it is or which team he's coaching, but going to two Frozen Fours in your first two years as a head coach (inherited players or not), that's pretty darn impressive. It is a coaching feat that many opposing fans still can't acknowledge really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 First off, even with that number you cite, I'd still take Irman over Wheeler at this point. That guy has shown nothing so far, IMO. I know draft location really doesn't indicate much collegiately, but until he plays like a 5th overall pick, he'll be a bust. I mean, look at previous players drafted in that position: Vanek, Kessel.... I'd take both of THEM before I would take Wheeler. Sorry, Cardinal, but Wheeler is an ok player, but I wouldn't even say he's good at this point. Maybe this season will change things, but I'll believe that when I see it. I'm going to agree and disagree with you. I agree that Wheeler hasn't played like a 5th overall selection. And if you want to classify his freshman campaign in that light I suppose you could use "bust". But if you look at freshman production, I think Wheeler had 9 goals. Well, that's pretty darn good for most freshman. We hope and believe Kozek can have a breakout year next year and he had 7 goals last year. And he's a second round pick. It is entirely conceivable Wheeler is a monster this year. I don't think last year proves anything. It just brings a question mark into the equation, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Very good discussion so far. I've read a lot of interesting and informative input (points, counter-points, etc.) from several different posters so far. Sadly, it seems to only have brought us all back to square 1 - which is, "Who the hell knows?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 First off, even with that number you cite, I'd still take Irman over Wheeler at this point. That guy has shown nothing so far, IMO. I know draft location really doesn't indicate much collegiately, but until he plays like a 5th overall pick, he'll be a bust. I mean, look at previous players drafted in that position: Vanek, Kessel.... I'd take both of THEM before I would take Wheeler. Sorry, Cardinal, but Wheeler is an ok player, but I wouldn't even say he's good at this point. Maybe this season will change things, but I'll believe that when I see it. As for the Lucia v Hakstol comparison, I don't understand it either. Lucia is on his 3rd team and has far more years in coaching than Hakstol. I really don't know what Lucia did in his first 3 years of coaching, but that's the only comparison that would probably fit. Blais v. Lucia worked. This comparison, IMO, doesn't. That being said, I don't care who it is or which team he's coaching, but going to two Frozen Fours in your first two years as a head coach (inherited players or not), that's pretty darn impressive. It is a coaching feat that many opposing fans still can't acknowledge really. It's a bit tough to compare their first three years in coaching considering one was at Alaska-Fairbanks and the other at UND. I never said anything about Wheeler other than that he outscored Irmen has a frosh. Bigger guys tend to take longer to acclimate to the college game, but it's clear this is a big year for him as he'll be asked to score 20 goals. Personally I think he will, but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I have no problem with Minnesota fans thinking Wheeler is going to have a big year, because they have seen the tools he has to work with week in and week out, and the improvement he made throughout the year. I agree that it is no different than Sioux fans counting on Kozek to put up considerably bigger numbers, based on his skill set. If Kozek can figure out how to get off that wicked wrist shot he has more often, he could be a great goal scorer. I think the teams that get the player/players that surprise you are going to be the ones that stand out. You can't expect a year like Oshie had from freshmen, but if you can be pleasantly surpised with a Zajac, Forney, or Vandevelde, the Sioux could be a tough team to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyZL Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Wasn't Irmen injured his freshman year? Irmen wasn't injured his freshman year(03-04) according to HockeyDB.com.... His Line: 44 GP, 14G-8A-22 Pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Potulny missed most of that season, then came back in the last few weeks of the year and made quite an impact. It burned up a year of eligibility, but that ultimately didn't matter, as he was leaving those laying around at the end anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think that we are going to see a monster year out of Toews. I would like to see them put Duncan on one side and Kozek on the other and see what they can do. Big point to remember...he is the youngest out of himself, Okposo and Johnson and he is already a proven 20 goal man in the WCHA. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 30 goal season out of the kid. I like that as a second line with Oshie, Porter and Zajac as the sweet and nasty first line. Score on you and beat you up! The word on Zajac is that he is a little less skilled than Travis, but he plays with more of an edge. Hopefully he produces like big bro and not like Chucko!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I'm going to agree and disagree with you. I agree that Wheeler hasn't played like a 5th overall selection. And if you want to classify his freshman campaign in that light I suppose you could use "bust". But if you look at freshman production, I think Wheeler had 9 goals. Well, that's pretty darn good for most freshman. We hope and believe Kozek can have a breakout year next year and he had 7 goals last year. And he's a second round pick. It is entirely conceivable Wheeler is a monster this year. I don't think last year proves anything. It just brings a question mark into the equation, IMO. My position on the draft thing is that, usually, if you are drafted in the first round, that means you have an extremely good talent set. If you are drafted in the top 10 of the first round, you are among the best available. If you are top 5, you have stellar talent that rises above all others available in that draft year. So far, I haven't seen that from Wheeler. Kozek scored 7 goals on UND's fourth line (mainly) while Wheeler was on the 3rd line. Gopher fans help me out: Does your third line get a lot of ice time? UND's fourth line was very inconsistent in ice time. Some games they'd get a lot of ice time. Other times they'd get less. There were periods last season where the fourth line got almost no ice time. So, basically, Kozek did really good for a second rounder and Wheeler did really poorly for a top 5 pick. Wheeler was projected to be end of the first round talent. You know what? Those analysts that said that were dead on. Wheeler has great size and good mobility, but he's NOT top 10 talent. Cardinal- True, Alaska Fairbanks is hardly CC or UMN, but still, you are going out of your way to discount your coach in a not-so-good comparison with ours. I will agree it is a different scenario, but I also believe that Hakstol is a darn fine coach to go to back to back frozen fours in his first 2 years as head coach while dealing with adversity (Bina's tragedy), youth (last season), and flak about his hiring (initially anyways). Look, I don't buy into the argument that Hakstol is a better coach than Lucia. That doesn't cut it. Hakstol hasn't been around long enough. He hasn't won a National Championship yet. Yes, Lucia has some habits that drives many of us batty, but he is a top tier coach in DI and would be a great candidate for a coaching position at the NHL level (even if it isn't a head coaching slot). But really, how hard is it to give props to another coach other than your own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 skateshattrick - I agree and disagree. I'm not saying Briggs will be the Gophers' savior this year, but Sioux fans shouldn't be any more confident with Lammy going into 2006-07 than we should be with Briggs. If you look back at those two games the entire team in front of Briggs let down against SCSU and HC as much so, if not more so, than Briggs himself. Yes sure, perhaps if he had stolen another goal or two it would have made a difference, but the SCSU loss isn't why they lost to HC and the OT goal against HC was a fluke. Plus Briggs has had more experience - positive or not - in those types of games. Slap Shot I would consider you to be a relatively great to good hockey mind baring the fact that your partisan Goofer fan (that is not a crime), however, do yourself a favor and stop trying to sugar coat Brigg's lack of success, face it, the kid is not a top line goalie. Briggs is a mediocre goalie at best. I want to snap when I see people saying that Briggs is a good goalie and when it is evident that Briggs is in fact a big fat Sieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Slap Shot I would consider you to be a relatively great to good hockey mind baring the fact that your partisan Goofer fan (that is not a crime), however, do yourself a favor and stop trying to sugar coat Brigg's lack of success, face it, the kid is not a top line goalie. Briggs is a mediocre goalie at best. I want to snap when I see people saying that Briggs is a good goalie and when it is evident that Briggs is in fact a big fat Sieve. I think we will have to agree to disagree. I didn't say Briggs was a great goalie, but imho he certainly qualifies as a 'good' goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think we will have to agree to disagree. I didn't say Briggs was a great goalie, but imho he certainly qualifies as a 'good' goalie. Relative to normal gopher standards, that may be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Relative to normal gopher standards, that may be correct. I suppose if you look at it deeper, except for Stauber, the gophers never have really had an exceptional goalie. I guess you have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 My Top 5 WCHA predictions: 1. Duluth will be the biggest "up mover". I can't pick SCSU in that role due to their showing late last season. People will see Motzko's boys coming (and be ready) moreso than Sandy's lads. 2. Wisconsin will be the biggest "down mover". They lost a lot of skilled, experienced guys and it takes new players time to adapt to the Eaves system. If this doesn't happen hand the Hobey to Brian Elliott. 3. More than half of MSU-Mankato's goals will come from freshmen. Where else will they come from? 4. Something will happen that none of us expect. 5. Someone will claim they expected it anyway. (That's called pre-empting Dirty and redwing77.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 5. Someone will claim they expected it anyway. (That's called pre-empting Dirty and redwing77.) What did I ever do to you? Why you got to put me in the same catergory as redwing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Relative to normal gopher standards, that may be correct. Relative to Lammy, it certainly is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Relative to Lammy, it certainly is correct. Relative to Wily Marvin, it's doubly correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 What did I ever do to you? Why you got to put me in the same catergory as redwing? Well, I'm at least honored to be there. And Sic, for the record, I'll agree with your list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagard Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Potulny missed most of that season, then came back in the last few weeks of the year and made quite an impact. It burned up a year of eligibility, but that ultimately didn't matter, as he was leaving those laying around at the end anyway. There were so many who thought he was "wasting" his season by coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runninwiththedogs Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 My Top 5 WCHA predictions: 1. Duluth will be the biggest "up mover". I can't pick SCSU in that role due to their showing late last season. People will see Motzko's boys coming (and be ready) moreso than Sandy's lads. I wish we were movin' on up... to a new arena... But the 'Dogs are going to rock the DECC this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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