NCAA Decision is in

[Sioux-cia]

It's an old rule, but a good one: Don't post in anger or frustration after a loss.

[ScottM]

I see nothing wrong with trimming or dumping AI programs. Like it or not, the name/logo are premised on a connection to the AI tribes in the region. If the tribes aren't interested in supporting UND, I see no reason for the school to extend them any special courtesies, programs, waivers, etc. Let them make it like everybody else, or not. Perhaps UND could focus its energies on the expanding Hispanic and other immigrant populations in the region instead. At least they probably don't have an ax to grind with regard to names, logos or perceived slights.

As for casinos, their economic "benefits" are often illusory at best. Keep them in the sticks where their "halo effect" is minimized. And I live in a state with legalized non-Indian gaming, but that's another issue.

[Sioux-cia]

I see nothing wrong with trimming or dumping AI programs.  Like it or not, the name/logo are premised on a connection to the AI tribes in the region.  If the tribes aren't interested in supporting UND, I see no reason for the school to extend them any special courtesies, programs, waivers, etc.  Let them make it like everybody else, or not.  Perhaps UND could focus its energies on the expanding Hispanic and other immigrant populations in the region instead.  At least they probably don't have an ax to grind with regard to names, logos or perceived slights. 

As for casinos, their economic "benefits" are often illusory at best.  Keep them in the sticks where their "halo effect" is minimized.  And I live in a state with legalized non-Indian gaming, but that's another issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand your view point but as we all know the NameChange group are not the majority. From those that have been identified, it's too late to cancel AM programs. They have already reaped the benefits. We can't let our anger at them (and I too am super pissed off at the NCAA and the NameChangers) affect the good these programs provide the AM community. It's through education that they will be able to join the 21st century and quit living in the past.

I agree with you, I don't want a casino in my back yard either. Keep them out in the boonies.

[mksioux]

For those of us gung-ho about litigation, I found the following quote by Kupchella in the Herald interesting.

"Because of the harshness of the words 'hostile' and 'abusive' we have no choice but to pursue an appeal and prove, if we have to at whatever level, that there's no such thing at the university."

In a written statement issued to reporters, Kupchella said the university would "prove, in a court of law if necessary, that this choice of words was inappropriate."

It hints that the words "hostile and abusive" used by the NCAA is what has ticked Kupchella off, not necessarily the ramifications of the decision. I could be wrong, but "proving in a court of law" that UND is not "hostile and abusive" toward American Indians is not going to force the NCAA to change its policy. Although many disagree with me, I do not believe the NCAA needed the words "hostile and abusive" to do what they did in the first place.

[HockeyMom]

For those of us gung-ho about litigation, I found the following quote by Kupchella in the Herald interesting.

It hints that the words "hostile and abusive" used by the NCAA is what has ticked Kupchella off, not necessarily the ramifications of the decision. I could be wrong, but "proving in a court of law" that UND is not "hostile and abusive" toward American Indians is not going to force the NCAA to change its policy. Although many disagree with me, I do not believe the NCAA needed the words "hostile and abusive" to do what they did in the first place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The fight in court wouldn't be just about the NCAA dropping the 'hostile and abusive', it would be about the NCAA limiting certain schools' post-season play and refusing to let them wear their logos in post-season play, which is as much of a violation of the First Amendment as refusing to let school children wear black arm bands in protest of a war.

[PCM]

It hints that the words "hostile and abusive" used by the NCAA is what has ticked Kupchella off, not necessarily the ramifications of the decision.  I could be wrong, but "proving in a court of law" that UND is not "hostile and abusive" toward American Indians is not going to force the NCAA to change its policy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think a judge telling the NCAA that its policy is unfairly discriminatory, arbitrary and capricious, and in violation of the First Amendment would do wonders for the NCAA's policy.

[dagies]

The NC$$ hasn't been, at best, hypocritical through this process, but I suspect that those saying they won't support the NC$$ after this will still be watching March Madness this spring.

Nope. Not much of a BB fan. But I get your point.

[dagies]

For those of us gung-ho about litigation, I found the following quote by Kupchella in the Herald interesting.

It hints that the words "hostile and abusive" used by the NCAA is what has ticked Kupchella off, not necessarily the ramifications of the decision. I could be wrong, but "proving in a court of law" that UND is not "hostile and abusive" toward American Indians is not going to force the NCAA to change its policy. Although many disagree with me, I do not believe the NCAA needed the words "hostile and abusive" to do what they did in the first place.

I agree. At this point, however, I feel like punching back and if there's a chance this could lead to the NCAA paying damages to UND for slander, or whatever the legalese allows, I'm all for it, even if in the end the name goes. If nothing else UND can defend their good name against the NCAA, and a chance to at least recoup some $$ that will have to be spent eventually to change the name. Because yes, I agree with you that all the NCAA would have to do is say "we believe the use of American Indian names to be inappropriate for use a sports nicknames, and therefore blah blah blah".

[UND83]

The reporters statement (not question) was how a janitor dragging a garbage can over the Sioux logo is an example of the university not using the name and logo in a respectful manner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, shouldn't caucasians be upset with the treatment of George Washington and Abe Lincoln. I mean everyday I fold a picture of George or Abe in half, stuff it in my wallet and sit on him all day.

[Bacardio]

I also like the idea of picking an "appropriate" name.  So Fighting Cav is in by me.  I can't imagine what would be more hostile and abusive to the native americans than that, but it's good for the NCAA so it must be good for the native americans.

I also like the idea of keeping the logo and changing the name to another tribe that is more than happy to be represented.  Fine, we don't NEED you, Sioux.  My biggest problem with that is I like to be original, and names like Chippewa are already being used.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about the Warriors, using a Viking warrior as a mascot.

I would guess the AI will bitch about the name warriors, but since it is a Norse warrior, and they don't have exclusive rights to the word, it would work. It has a huge localized meaning with all the Scandinain culture the Dakotas have

[Sioux-cia]

[star2city]

"However, the university will be allowed to host the Men

[Cratter]

[Goon]

[Goon]

[dakotadan]

[SIouxNY]

Most Division I programs don't have facilities as nice as UND's I think that is where the root of all this is coming from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, this all comes from Roy Saigo at SCSU.

A number of years ago, he made a statement that it was SCSU's duty and responsibility to make sure that UND changed its name. Not long after that, he pushed the NCAA for the creation of the very subcommittee that enacted this ruling. The motion they passed was actually taken directly from one he submitted earlier this year.

Go to the "NCAA Minority Opportunities And Interests Committee" website - Saigo's letter is Appendix B. The rest, I think we all know.

[Flatland]

[Blackheart]

[Sioux-cia]