Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[PCM]

That Cher video and song is wrong on so many levels by today's standards.

And Sioux-cia is sooo naive!

For Halfbreed fans, name just represents who they are

[bincitysioux]

UND NICKNAME: Group rescinds support

Members of the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation's Veterans' Group board voted 3-2 Wednesday night to rescind their two-day-old support for UND's Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

The board voted unanimously to support the nickname during a meeting Monday, but board members later were inundated with calls from Standing Rock veterans and other tribe members expressing opposition to the nickname, said Ed Black Cloud, the board's acting chairman.

[mksioux]

I'll decline to state the obvious joke about giving something and then taking it back.

But seriously, this is the kind of stuff that makes me question my support for the nickname. I'm 100% against political correctness and the NCAA, and I used to admire the Sioux tribes and their heritage. But I seriously question whether the tribes in North Dakota are worth honoring anymore. It's a shame that UND has to beg these victim-mentality tribal leaders for their support for something obviously not meant to offend. It's ashame that the nickname issue empowers people that are not deserving of power. (I'm not targeting this veterans group specifically because they should be honored for their service alone, but I'm speaking more generally about tribal leaders.)

That said, I'll continue my support to the end. But I'm comfortable admitting that my support is more about refusing to bow to political correctness than a true feeling of honor for Sioux tribes. Why do we insist on basing our support of the nickname on honoring people that either a) do not want to be honored, or b) are not deserving of honor? If there is a silent majority that do not fall under (a) or (b), it's about time we start hearing from them.

[ScottM]

I'll decline to state the obvious joke about giving something and then taking it back.

But seriously, this is the kind of stuff that makes me question my support for the nickname. I'm 100% against political correctness and the NCAA, and I used to admire the Sioux tribes and their heritage. But I seriously question whether the tribes in North Dakota are worth honoring anymore. It's a shame that UND has to beg these victim-mentality tribal leaders for their support for something obviously not meant to offend. It's ashame that the nickname issue empowers people that are not deserving of power. (I'm not targeting this veterans group specifically because they should be honored for their service alone, but I'm speaking more generally about tribal leaders.)

That said, I'll continue my support to the end. But I'm comfortable admitting that my support is more about refusing to bow to political correctness than a true feeling of honor for Sioux tribes. Why do we insist on basing our support of the nickname on honoring people that either a) do not want to be honored, or b) are not deserving of honor? If there is a silent majority that do not fall under (a) or (b), it's about time we start hearing from them.

I've been thinking the same thing for some time myself. I detest the idea that UND should be beholden to the whims of tribal politics, and their often "hat in hand" mentality, which can change with the wind. If the name/logo go for any reason, I still see no reason for UND to continue its pandering on/off campus to these people, and think it might be liberating to abandon all pretense and cut ties to the tribes and reservations, and get rid of those silly programs and channel the funds to more worthwhile endeavours. F*** 'em.

[dagies]

Not a media story but I found this a bit surprising.

At work today, two Navajo nurses described one of my patients as 'a half breed'.

I have a co-worker whose mother was a member of a Sioux tribe living on one of the reservations in South Dakota several years ago. She said that half-breed was often used as a term to describe certain people, and it wasn't taken or meant as an offense.

[dagies]

I've been thinking the same thing for some time myself. I detest the idea that UND should be beholden to the whims of tribal politics, and their often "hat in hand" mentality, which can change with the wind. If the name/logo go for any reason, I still see no reason for UND to continue its pandering on/off campus to these people, and think it might be liberating to abandon all pretense and cut ties to the tribes and reservations, and get rid of those silly programs and channel the funds to more worthwhile endeavours. F*** 'em.

I'm feeling some of the same as both of you. What really bugs me about this is the accusation of how UND students are supposedly treated. Didn't we have tribal members visit some time back and they left surprised at how much better things were at UND than they had been led to believe?

It appears there's been an effective propaganda campaign going on.

[GeauxSioux]

“There were a lot of things we didn't know about when we made that motion,” Black Cloud said, later adding, “we didn't know about the treatment of Indian students (at UND).”

If this is the case why does UND have more Native American students than any other university around.

As far as the honoring of the Sioux name is concerned, my thought has always been that it is more to honor the Sioux warriors of the past. They were proud people through some of the most adverse times. I enjoy reading about the Sioux history and that is mainly because UND has the Sioux nickname and because I took classes in the Indian Studies program at UND. If the Sioux leaders of today want their heritage forgotten, they are going about it the right way.

Even though Wovoka warned against the evils of the white man, he also advocated educating the Sioux young. Isn't that part of what UND is trying to do with all of the IS and INMED programs?

[Shawn-O]

What "treatment"? If there's another University that offers as much to the Native American community IN THE COUNTRY, I'd like to see who it is? The gap between "perception" and reality is what gets my blood boiling on this one. This flip-flop further empowers the white anglo bureaucrats.

[Oxbow6]

[url="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=48600

[The Sicatoka]

The post by "mksioux" pretty much sums up where I'm at also.

If the name/logo go for any reason, I still see no reason for UND to continue its pandering on/off campus to these people, and think it might be liberating to abandon all pretense and cut ties to the tribes and reservations, and get rid of those silly programs and channel the funds to more worthwhile endeavours.

I don't agree with an active campaign to "get rid of" those programs; rather, no moniker means no motivation to keep them running. And no motivation to keep and maintain them means they won't survive long. Rather than actively cutting I think it'd be much more fun to watch them wither and die on the vine, along with anti-moniker crowd's political power on campus.

Careful what you wish for. You don't know what you've got until it's gone.

[ScottM]

The post by "mksioux" pretty much sums up where I'm at also.

I don't agree with an active campaign to "get rid of" those programs; rather, no moniker means no motivation to keep them running. And no motivation to keep and maintain them means they won't survive long. Rather than actively cutting I think it'd be much more fun to watch them wither and die on the vine, along with anti-moniker crowd's political power on campus.

Careful what you wish for. You don't know what you've got until it's gone.

That's basically what I was aiming at, as it would probably be politically risky to dismantle the programs, so much as refuse to expand them or increase funding over time. Let SCCC take them on instead.

[WiSioux]

I have to agree... if the "treatment" of the Native American (Indian?) students on campus is so bad, then why are they still here. There must be some other school they could have attended... no one is forcing them to come, just paying for it. As most likely everyone on this board will say, I've been at UND for three years now, this is my fourth, and I have NEVER seen a student treated differently from the rest of them. This doesn't apply to Native American student, I've also never seen any other minority, or majority, student treated differently from the rest of the student body. Doesn't there have to be more "proof" than just someone saying it happens? How come nothing has ever been documented? Last I checked that's (which was Law class this morning) isn't that libel or slander?

[Shawn-O]

If the name/logo go for any reason, I still see no reason for UND to continue its pandering on/off campus to these people, and think it might be liberating to abandon all pretense and cut ties to the tribes and reservations, and get rid of those silly programs and channel the funds to more worthwhile endeavours.

Debt service for the REA retrofit immediately comes to mind.

[Goon]

[The Sicatoka]

Debt service for the REA retrofit immediately comes to mind.

How nice of them to offer to "refresh" an arena that isn't even 10 years old yet and is still the best hockey arena on earth.

[Taz Boy]

What better example than this to show why tribal "support" is irrelevant to nickname usage. Wonder what sort of conversations took place during those two days?

In the end, the issue still remains with the NCAA. I think it's pretty much a given the nickname will be dropped at some point in the future. But, the NCAA must lose in court first. Go get 'em, boys.

taz will always be a Sioux fan

[Sioux-cia]

[The Sicatoka]

The answer is clear.

General George Crook, US Army, stated that the Sioux were the greatest light Cavalry the world has ever known.

If not "Go Sioux", clearly, it's "Go Cavalry."

[Chewey]

What better example than this to show why tribal "support" is irrelevant to nickname usage. Wonder what sort of conversations took place during those two days?

In the end, the issue still remains with the NCAA. I think it's pretty much a given the nickname will be dropped at some point in the future. But, the NCAA must lose in court first. Go get 'em, boys.

taz will always be a Sioux fan

I would not be too quick to conclude that it is a given that the nickname will be retired in the future. If true, what would be the point of fighting for it now? I think that the nickname will be retained for the foreseeable future.

[Diggler]

The answer is clear.

General George Crook, US Army, stated that the Sioux were the greatest light Cavalry the world has ever known.

If not "Go Sioux", clearly, it's "Go Cavalry."

You're gonna have that on your tombstone, aren't you?

[The Sicatoka]

You're gonna have that on your tombstone, aren't you?

It already is.

Got a heck of a wireless cable modem connection down here on "the other side".

And yes, it is "down" here.

[Goon]

[Shawn-O]

I would not be too quick to conclude that it is a given that the nickname will be retired in the future. If true, what would be the point of fighting for it now? I think that the nickname will be retained for the foreseeable future.

I absolutely agree with this. The wrench in the works are the white anglo bureaucrats at the "model" schools such as Wisconsin, Iowa, and UMTC. If they continue to mandate to their AD's to not schedule us, do we stay the course? My opinion is yes, but it's worth debating.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

[url="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=48600

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Here's a story that may be of interest: a Sioux tribe member will be getting some scholarship money, courtesy of those who support Chief Illiniwek:

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/200...arship_to_honor

I don't agree with everything that they're doing. but at least it's partially constructive. Which is a LOT more than I can say for 99.999% of the haters.