Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 If we don't get an up or down vote from the Standing Rock tribe this will be meaningless. I would like to ask the locals this question: if one of the tribes does hold a referendum and the supporters of the nickname win, do you think that will at least put pressure on the leadership of the other tribe to schedule a similar referendum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxmama Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I would like to ask the locals this question: if one of the tribes does hold a referendum and the supporters of the nickname win, do you think that will at least put pressure on the leadership of the other tribe to schedule a similar referendum? I think as long as Ron His Horse Is Thunder is in charge, it will go nowhere...fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think as long as Ron His Horse Is Thunder is in charge, it will go nowhere...fast. Kim Jong His Horse is Thunder ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think as long as Ron His Horse Is Thunder is in charge, it will go nowhere...fast. I was worried that this would happen when the NCAA said they needed 2 tribes instead of 1 since the Spirit Lake Tribe in a way has been more favoriable to the name than the Standing Rock. So i think we are only going to get 1 out of the 2 tribes support. And its not enough. And since Ron the @ss hole thunder is still in charge, there won't be a vote on the Standing Rock because he knows they would side with the nickname and that would make him look like the goon that he is. But i give a lot of credit to the Spirit Lake for trying to get a vote across they have my respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I was worried that this would happen when the NCAA said they needed 2 tribes instead of 1 since the Spirit Lake Tribe in a way has been more favoriable to the name than the Standing Rock. So i think we are only going to get 1 out of the 2 tribes support. And its not enough. And since Ron the @ss hole thunder is still in charge, there won't be a vote on the Standing Rock because he knows they would side with the nickname and that would make him look like the goon that he is. But i give a lot of credit to the Spirit Lake for trying to get a vote across they have my respect. Don't hold your breath. I think there will be no tribal support at all. If anything, Goon is right. Too little, too late. Such a defeatist attitude, sure, but that's how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Kim Jong His Horse is Thunder ... That is not only unfair, but totally uncalled for. Anyone who sticks up for basic rights in this abusive issue will be portrayed in a negative light by certain people here. It grows old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7>5 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 That is not only unfair, but totally uncalled for. Anyone who sticks up for basic rights in this abusive issue will be portrayed in a negative light by certain people here. It grows old. What? What is unfair about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 What? What is unfair about it. You are comparing a Sioux leader to one of the worlds worst tyrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxjoy Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Anyone who sticks up for basic rights in this abusive issue I try to avoid posting on this topic, but I had to say something here. How does not allowing people voice their opinion (by refusing a referendum) equal sticking up for basic rights? It is just my opinion, but I believe that freedom of speech is a pretty important basic right, and His Horse is Thunder is denying this right to the people of Standing Rock. I think referendums can go a long way in the nickname debate. A lot of this "well I heard that..." and "the people that I know on the rez say..." will be either supported or eliminated by actual votes. If the general population of the reservations support the nickname, it will be known. If the general population of the reservations don't support the nickname, it will be known. My 2 cents. Well, maybe 3 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You are comparing a Sioux leader to one of the worlds worst tyrants. I think the comparison is very fitting. Two leaders, although on different scales, abusing their power to silence the (potential) voice of their own people. Not allowing the voice of people to be heard due to one's own belief while that person is in power is exactly what Jong and Ronnie do. And enough with the "abusive issue". Go take a walk on a res in ND...they do just fine with "abusive issues" on their own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think the comparison is very fitting. Two leaders, although on different scales, abusing their power to silence the (potential) voice of their own people. Not allowing the voice of people to be heard due to one's own belief while that person is in power is exactly what Jong and Ronnie do. There you go being all rational and logical again ... it's going to make Rex's walnut-sized brain melt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7>5 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You are comparing a Sioux leader to one of the worlds worst tyrants. Well they are very similar they both do waht is in their best interest and not what is in the best interest of the people. The rule by dictatorship. So they are the same. If Ron McNeil(AKA Ron His Horse) would do what is best for the tribe then he will have some of my respect until then. He can piss off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I try to avoid posting on this topic, but I had to say something here. How does not allowing people voice their opinion (by refusing a referendum) equal sticking up for basic rights? It is just my opinion, but I believe that freedom of speech is a pretty important basic right, and His Horse is Thunder is denying this right to the people of Standing Rock. I think referendums can go a long way in the nickname debate. A lot of this "well I heard that..." and "the people that I know on the rez say..." will be either supported or eliminated by actual votes. If the general population of the reservations support the nickname, it will be known. If the general population of the reservations don't support the nickname, it will be known. My 2 cents. Well, maybe 3 cents. Exactly. If the tribal members believe that they are being "abused" by the nickname, doesn't TREX actually think that such a sentiment would be expressed through a vote? RHHT's position that "I think it is abusive and, therefore, it is for everyone" is exactly the sort of thing that petty tyrants do. True, RHHT does not have people killed and does not participate in the spreading of nuclear weapons but this sort of sentiment is something that he'd probably share with good old Kimmy Jong and the boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 There you go being all rational and logical again. Just wish I could hear that from my wife once in a while ...but V-day is just around the corner so maybe there's a chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ...but I believe that freedom of speech is a pretty important basic right, and His Horse is Thunder is denying this right to the people of Standing Rock. Attempting to silence anyone who disagrees with you by demonizing them, saying they fail to support "basic human rights": oldest trick in the book. You'll be the sole judge of what is and isn't a "basic human right". And as far as the namecalling? Politics ain't beanbag. Ron/Thunder is a politician, and there is a long tradition of "anything goes" in political mudslinging. For all we know, right now some Kim Jong Il supporter is mad because he's being compared to Ron/Thunder. People have a right to make political comparisons, and they also have a right to disagree with those comparisons; its as simple as that. However, silencing someone else's opinion is most definitely NOT a right in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 A referendum is meaningless. Even if both tribes allowed it (which they won't) and it came out in favor of allowing the name to continue, it will not be recognized by the NCAA under the terms of the settlement agreement. And even if it were recognized, it would not be viable consent for UND to operate under. A new referendum could come up a year later. The only way that tribal approval would work is if UND and the tribes reached a long-term written agreement with "incentives" to the tribes. Reaching such an agreement would require serious people putting together a serious proposal. Sadly, that is not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 A referendum is meaningless. Even if both tribes allowed it (which they won't) and it came out in favor of allowing the name to continue, it will not be recognized by the NCAA under the terms of the settlement agreement. And even if it were recognized, it would not be viable consent for UND to operate under. A new referendum could come up a year later. The only way that tribal approval would work is if UND and the tribes reached a long-term written agreement with "incentives" to the tribes. Reaching such an agreement would require serious people putting together a serious proposal. Sadly, that is not happening. I am not so sure here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I would consider scholarships that are available only to members of two tribes an existing "outreach program". So if the tribes want to talk about expanding those programs and in return, giving the NCAA the okay for the nickname I'd say that's open for negotiation. But I can't agree with the idea that the University should have started outreach long ago. IMHO, outreach does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I would consider scholarships that are available only to members of two tribes an existing "outreach program". So if the tribes want to talk about expanding those programs and in return, giving the NCAA the okay for the nickname I'd say that's open for negotiation. But I can't agree with the idea that the University should have started outreach long ago. IMHO, outreach does exist. I am all for that if that helps UND keep the name. I get the opinion that RHT is open to that either. I wish someone would ask the question though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I support all the programs the NA people get at UND even though that isn't going to solve the NA problem with their society and the fact that it is ethnic favoritism. If the nickname changes, I'll still support them. I just won't be in favor of increasing the funding to them. If the tribes want to take a more active control in NA life at UND, they should step up financially too. Whats that? They don't have the money? Well, then, that's fine. The programs won't go away. In fact, I'd suggest they not spend money on UND. Instead, spend money on their tribal elementary, middle, and high schools to get more than 48-55% of their student population to go to school, do well in school, and graduate. I found somewhat more up to date stats and noticed that only the Latino population, a known transient community, has a lower graduation rate in ND. I think the rest of the ethnicities average around 85-88%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Spirit Lake council mulls nickname voteJohn Chaske said his group met with the tribal council Wednesday, and it appeared three council members are willing to put the issue on the ballot in April. Another council member was absent, he said, and a decision on the referendum requires all to be present. Chairwoman Myra Pearson has expressed her opposition to the nickname in the past, but she would only vote in the event of a tie. Ninety percent of the tribal members he talks to support the nickname, Chaske said. “There are some that are dead set against it,” he said, “but it looks good.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Stuff that didn't make it into the above article: (from "The City Beat" - Tran's blog) Nickname vote coming up? Part 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray77 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Probably much of the same, but this was published today: Supporter of UND nickname says Spirit Lake Tribal Council will consider holding tribal vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Did anyone catch this, are we tying scholarships to the name? I hope that the solution does not specifically, formally tie scholarships to the nickname. I can see the the idea of revenue sharing from the proceeds of the sales of t-shirts, etc. BUT: scholarships should be handled on a statewide basis, with leadership from the statewide Board of Higher Education; the participation and eligibility should not be limited to UND, but ND State, any other state-supported four-year colleges, the community (junior) colleges, etc. should also play a part here. If this is a good idea, it stands on its own regardless of your nickname. And I feel the same way about the "tolerance" classes: if this is a good idea for college-level students, it's an even better idea to teach it in high schools. And those classes should have some leadership from the people on the reservations. Furthermore, I'd love to see a way to ensure that some of the scholarship money results in a "return on investment" directly to the reservation: in other words, some civil engineers who study in North Dakota on these scholarships should return to the reservations to help with roads, etc. Same for the medical, education and business disciplines. In practice, I'm not sure how that could be enforced but IMHO it's a laudable goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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