Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Goon]

I wonder if the NCAA is thinking, "Wow...these people have dropped a lot of coin and they are serious about this. Let's settle this." I am so proud that we have people that want to stand up and fight for the name. GO SIOUX!

We could have been one of the other schools that buckled to PC pressure.

[Chewey]

We could have been one of the other schools that buckled to PC pressure.

Both very good and astute points.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

We could have been one of the other schools that buckled to PC pressure.

[Chewey]

I am disappointed in the U of I too. I can't imagine why, after fighting so hard and long, they went all wobbly. It's really, really sad. If I were a UofI alum, perhaps I'd do the Chief on a public streetwalk right by the basketball/football stadium 1/2 hour before every game. Free Speech/Time, Place and Manner. I don't see how they could prohibit that. Though it can no longer be done in the places owned by the U, even though it is a public entity, it can certainly be done on public street corners, etc. Has anyone thought of doing this? This would be a good poke in the eye to the PCers and the NC00.

Still, with respect to UND, I'm afraid that the NC00 and the PC loons will strike again in the future. That seems to be what they did with the Chief and at other institutions. They are like so many cockroaches. The idea is to take what you can get now and come back for the rest later. I think with the UofI it was a matter of attrition rather than anything else. This is why I am opposed to a "settlement." If UND has some goods on the NC00, why not use the goods to expose the NC00 to benefit not only UND but other schools as well? I can't imagine why there would be an incentive to settle if there is a lot of embarassing stuff to be exposed. If this is all true, UND is at an incredibly unique point. Didn't th NC00 try to humiliate or shame UND into getting rid of the name by calling it a "racist" and "hostile and abusive" institution? Didn't the PC loons allied with the NC00 do the same thing? Didn't the NC00 try to scum UND to other schools so that other schools would not play UND? Why should UND now be so magnanimous?

While my contibution was considerable to me, I understand that it is probably minute in comparison to the ones who are contributing a lot more to this noble cause. I do not regret my contribution at all but I sure wish UND would not settle and would go for the knock out punch on this bully.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I am disappointed in the U of I too. I can't imagine why, after fighting so hard and long, they went all wobbly.

Very simple: politics. Our governor controls the University's Board of Trustees. He needs minority votes in order to stay in power, and he handed over control of the nominees to the board to the President of the State Senate; someone who has a large minority constituency and loves to play up the "victim" approach in order to get his base motivated to vote. The latest two board members were a minority rights lawyer (law partner of Johnny Cochrane) and someone who authored "The Diversity Game" and sells it to grade schools. They made it clear that Chief had to go. The University's budget was being held hostage.

The alums were 85-95% in favor of Chief. This was all pandering to the victim constituency.

If I were a UofI alum, perhaps I'd do the Chief on a public streetwalk right by the basketball/football stadium 1/2 hour before every game. Free Speech/Time, Place and Manner. I don't see how they could prohibit that.

They can't. I'm sure there will be plenty of shirts, not to mention headdresses this fall. And the traditonal halftime show will go on, and you'll see plenty of dancing in the stands also. You may not see this unless you're there, because the TV networks won't show anything of the sort; but it will be there.

I'm afraid that the NC00 and the PC loons will strike again in the future.

You can bet on this. We've got the fringe element who don't like the name, they'll be out protesting for sure.

The NCAA has done nothing but empower lunatics.

[GeauxSioux]

Pause in Nickname Lawsuit Welcomed

A spokesman for the NCAA says the organization welcomes a pause in the lawsuit over the University of North Dakota`s Fighting Sioux nickname.

A Grand Forks judge has ordered both sides to stop making document requests for almost a month. The goal is to give attorneys for UND and the NCAA more time for negotiations.

NCAA spokesman Chuck Wynne says the order is welcome. He says settlement talks have been going on -- and the NCAA is hoping a compromise can be reached.

[rochsioux]

How can a compromise be fashioned ? I have thought for some time that this lawsuit will never go to trial. If nothing has changed (such as additional tribal approval) since the NCAA denied their final appeal and UND filed the lawsuit, how do you compromise on an issue like this ? UND wants to keep the nickname and the NCAA says it is hostile and abusive and is doing everything it can to force schools to change.

The only possible compromise I can envision is one where the NCAA allows UND to host post-season events but not allow them to use the nickname or imagery, with the exception of buildings that UND does not own. This would have the main effect of not allowing UND to wear their regular jerseys with the logo during the post-season. If this had been the original NCAA rule then I doubt a lawsuit would have been filed. This allows UND to host post-season which eliminates the competitive unfairness of the original ruling. For the NCAA this takes aways a "big stick" from them to try and get schools to change; however, they don't really need it anymore since almost every school on the original hit list has either changed or received an exemption. IMO, it is highly unlikely that any school that already comitted to changing their nickname would backtrack. For UND, this would allow them to keep the name and host post-season, the biggest cost would be additional post-season uniforms. With the unpredictable outcome of any lawsuit I would guess this would be acceptable since they would get most of what they want and the athletes would not be subject to losing home field advantage that was earned during the season.

Other than this I can't see how any compromise can be reached assuming UND is serious about keeping the nickname/logo and wants to ensure their athletes have a fair playing field to compete.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Here's an example of a writer with an agenda.

Illini halftime show won't change except for no chief

No drastic changes are being made to the halftime show at Illini football games this year, despite the loss of the school's longtime mascot, Chief Illiniwek.

"Other than some minor dampness issues, the maiden voyage of the Titanic went off without a hitch..."

[ScottM]

Here's an example of a writer with an agenda.

Illini halftime show won't change except for no chief

"Other than some minor dampness issues, the maiden voyage of the Titanic went off without a hitch..."

Maybe they can invite Florida State and Chief Osceola up instead, and make the NC$$ happy.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Maybe they can invite Florida State and Chief Osceola up instead, and make the NC$$ happy.

That's been brought up before-if FSU played in Champaign and brought their band, Osceola could ride around on horseback while brandishing a flaming spear and everything would be just fine: but if Illiniwek even peeked out from the dressing room, the local Native-American loons would be "humilated" and "sink back in their seats in shame".

As noted above, they have done nothing but empower imbeciles and single-agenda troglodytes.

[Chewey]

That's been brought up before-if FSU played in Champaign and brought their band, Osceola could ride around on horseback while brandishing a flaming spear and everything would be just fine: but if Illiniwek even peeked out from the dressing room, the local Native-American loons would be "humilated" and "sink back in their seats in shame".

As noted above, they have done nothing but empower imbeciles and single-agenda troglodytes.

Very well said. It's unfortunate that a lot of the weenies that are the decision-makers are not elected. It's up to the alumni to organize and replace them with responsible, independent-minded people who have spines.

[Diggler]

Very well said. It's unfortunate that a lot of the weenies that are the decision-makers are not elected. It's up to the alumni to organize and replace them with responsible, independent-minded people who have spines.

Wait wait wait. It's up to me? In that case.

[SoCalSiouxFan]

I wonder if the NCAA is thinking, "Wow...these people have dropped a lot of coin and they are serious about this. Let's settle this." I am so proud that we have people that want to stand up and fight for the name. GO SIOUX!

I agree. But they also may be thinking that they will have to drop a lot of coin if they lose, especially if they have to face a Grand Forks jury. If you go to the ND attorney general web page and look up the complaint at http://www.ag.state.nd.us/NCAA/Complaint-State-Court.pdf you can see on the last two pages that the complaint is for money damages and injunctive relief as follows:

For money damages, in an amount to be proved at trial;

For treble money damages, in an amount to be proved at trial;

For pre and post judgment interest as allowed by law;

For temporary, preliminary and permanent injunctive relief;

For reasonable attorney

[MplsBison]

A mistrial would seem to be the only reasonable conclusion of any trial held in Grand Forks.

That's way too easy.

I'd say a fair trial could only be held outside of the state of ND.

[PCM]

A mistrial would seem to be the only reasonable conclusion of any trial held in Grand Forks.

That's way too easy.

I'm sure it is for a supreme court justice such as yourself.

[CDog]

A mistrial would seem to be the only reasonable conclusion of any trial held in Grand Forks.

That's way too easy.

I'd say a fair trial could only be held outside of the state of ND.

I can only assume you were joking with this statement. State and District court cases do not get moved from state to state. As an aside, this truly shows the NCAA's arrogance: How did they think this was going to play out. They had to know that North Dakota was going to file a lawsuit, and if they thought it was going to be filed somewhere other than North Dakota, well, then they either are very arrogant or very stupid. Or both.

[ScottM]

A mistrial would seem to be the only reasonable conclusion of any trial held in Grand Forks.

That's way too easy.

I'd say a fair trial could only be held outside of the state of ND.

No such thing as a "mistrial" in a civil case, you watch too much "Law & Order". Moreover, if the NC$$ questioned the "fairness" of the venue, they had every opportunity to object, and move for a change.

[MplsBison]

Then I don't quite understand what this lawsuit could possibly establish.

The NCAA is a nationwide private club.

To join that club you have to follow their rules.

If they say you can't have an Indian mascot, what could any ruling by a court in the state of ND possible do?

Make it so that you can have an Indian mascot in the state of North Dakota?

So?

How is that going to stop the NCAA from barring UND from hosting post season games? They can simply decide that you don't get to do that for any reason they want. It's a private club.

Is there going to be a lawsuit for every single state?

Or at the least, shouldn't the lawsuit have to be in Indiana?

[THETRIOUXPER]

Then I don't quite understand what this lawsuit could possibly establish.

The NCAA is a nationwide private club.

To join that club you have to follow their rules.

If they say you can't have an Indian mascot, what could any ruling by a court in the state of ND possible do?

Make it so that you can have an Indian mascot in the state of North Dakota?

So?

How is that going to stop the NCAA from barring UND from hosting post season games? They can simply decide that you don't get to do that for any reason they want. It's a private club.

Is there going to be a lawsuit for every single state?

Or at the least, shouldn't the lawsuit have to be in Indiana?

I think at the very least you should know what you are talking about before you start spewing stupidity on a public forum.

[sprig]

I think at the very least you should know what you are talking about before you start spewing stupidity on a public forum.

Appears he may have been thinking when he left the large amount of space between paragraphs. Obviously there was little to obtain, other than blank space, during those periods of thought

[The Sicatoka]

To join that club you have to follow their rules.

Making a long answer short:

Yes, you do, but they do also.

The State's case claims they didn't follow their rules in implementing the policy.

[Gothmog]

Making a long answer short:

Yes, you do, but they do also.

The State's case claims they didn't follow their rules in implementing the policy.

Ahhh, but that's the rub isn't it?

If UND were to win on those grounds, wouldn't they just be setting themselves up for a cleaned-up version of the same policy? One that would be much more difficult to challenge in court because the previous lawsuit resolved most, if not all, of the other legal claims UND had available?

This lawsuit appears to be a lose-lose situation for UND. If they win this round they're just that much less likely to win the next round.

[Stromer]

Ahhh, but that's the rub isn't it?

If UND were to win on those grounds, wouldn't they just be setting themselves up for a cleaned-up version of the same policy? One that would be much more difficult to challenge in court because the previous lawsuit resolved most, if not all, of the other legal claims UND had available?

This lawsuit appears to be a lose-lose situation for UND. If they win this round they're just that much less likely to win the next round.

In theory, yes. However, I don't think they will be able to pass the new and improved version of it. Thus we still win.

[fightingsioux4life]

Then I don't quite understand what this lawsuit could possibly establish.

The NCAA is a nationwide private club.

To join that club you have to follow their rules.

If they say you can't have an Indian mascot, what could any ruling by a court in the state of ND possible do?

Make it so that you can have an Indian mascot in the state of North Dakota?

So?

How is that going to stop the NCAA from barring UND from hosting post season games? They can simply decide that you don't get to do that for any reason they want. It's a private club.

Is there going to be a lawsuit for every single state?

Or at the least, shouldn't the lawsuit have to be in Indiana?

What this lawsuit will establish is that even private clubs have to obey the law. This is a breach of contract lawsuit. The NCAA isn't following their own procedures for developing and implementing a policy such as this. They are supposed to put this to a vote of the membership. They probably realized that they don't have (and never will have) the votes, so they tried to ram it through via the Executive Committee. Private clubs are not omnipotent. The NCAA, however, seems to think it is. They need a big slice of humble pie. And that is what they are going to get.

The NCAA is not just any, ordinary "private club"; they are the only game in town. Either you join the NCAA or you don't have an athletic department. This isn't like private golf clubs, where if you don't like how a club is operated you can just join a different one. If you don't like the NCAA, you don't have an alternative. If the NCAA is allowed to throw their weight around like this, there is no telling what will come up next: policies governing the male-female ratio of the student body, the racial make-up of the student body, the sky's the limit with this outfit. If the NCAA is going to behave like an abusive monopoly, then I suggest some Federal legislation that would strip the NCAA of it's not-for-profit status (this is a bad joke, anyway) and also strip it of any anti-trust protections that they might currently have. I'd love to watch the United States Federal Government put the NCAA in its place. That would inject some humility into Myles Brand; I am not sure what else would.

[Diggler]

Ahhh, but that's the rub isn't it?

If UND were to win on those grounds, wouldn't they just be setting themselves up for a cleaned-up version of the same policy? One that would be much more difficult to challenge in court because the previous lawsuit resolved most, if not all, of the other legal claims UND had available?

This lawsuit appears to be a lose-lose situation for UND. If they win this round they're just that much less likely to win the next round.

But if it's as easy as that, why didn't the NCAA do that to begin with? Skip the middle man and by following their own rules have a pretty strong argument behind the decision they made.