New arena in fargo?

[#1siouxfan22]

Tonite on the news they interviewed Gino Gasparini. He said if that arena passes he would love to put a team in fargo. That a better rink would help bring people out to the games and so on. What are peoples thoughts?

[jerseychaser1]

What kind of team would it be and where would it be?

[#1siouxfan22]

USHL and downtown

[Cratter]

Here has been some discussion on the topic already:

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?sh...indpost&p=71168

[SiouxMeNow]

Here has been some discussion on the topic already:

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?sh...indpost&p=71168

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

great...build it and they will come...maybe a USHL franchise would make a splash for a year or two in a new arena (god knows the Coliseum killed the FM Bears and Ice Sharks) -- I don't think proponents should push the plan based on jr. hockey coming to Fargo though...it's kind of a stretch...plus they don't have the greatest track record supporting hockey of any kind. It's no mystery why NDSU is keeping their hands off this one...they don't want the stink that killed the last arena of "fargo taxpayers paying for an NDSU arena" - they're not going DI anyway...too busy playing with themselves in other "big" sports...

[BigGreyAnt41]

I'm always baffled that Fargo can't keep a hockey team considering how popular high school hockey is in that area.

[Supertrex]

What needs to be done with $40mm in Fargo is to build more smaller indoor rinks and a "Little Ralph"...not a so-called multi-use entertainment facility that will not be available for practice, etc.

You're exactly right about NDSU - they are staying out of it so they don't wreck its chances of passage...the second the proposal is passed (slim chance), they will be pursuing D1 hockey...

[bincitysioux]

I don't know if I think they'll put together a hockey program if it passes, but they will definately move bison basketball downtown if it is built. They are keeping quiet about it because Chapman and Taylor know that the voters will never support it for that reason because NDSU is already burning through their funding in making the move to DI.

[IowaBison]

1. NDSU will not be adding hockey for at least a decade.

2. NDSU will make use of the facility, but it is not in their best interest for the measure to pass. That $40 million would go a lot further for a different facility especially one on campus.

3. "Burning through their funding".. that's funny

[sioux7]

The question I have is why do the tax payers need to be involved? If they can come up with $60 million why can't they come up with $100 million? If they are so confident this think will fly why not do the full $100 million.

[ESPNInsider]

What needs to be done with $40mm in Fargo is to build more smaller indoor rinks and a "Little Ralph"...not a so-called multi-use entertainment facility that will not be available for practice, etc.

You're exactly right about NDSU - they are staying out of it so they don't wreck its chances of passage...the second the proposal is passed (slim chance), they will be pursuing D1 hockey...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally disagree. There is no reason for NDSU to pursue hockey at this point. They have all their money in their D1 transition and it would be silly for them to consider adding hockey. Just because they would have a nice arena in town does not mean they should add hockey. They would then have to add women's hockey also and they would really be stretching their funds. (they are still trying to add more schollies for their other sports)

I would argue that the b-ball teams will not use this facility either. They announced an $8mm dollar plan on upgrading the BSA (not enough but it's a start) and they can always move their games to the Dome. I don't think that they would be hiding it from the city and then after it is passed come out and shock everyone with an announcement, as that would turn many more people against 'SU. I may be wrong but that is my guess.

[sioux7]

Once again with this whole thing is that still NDSU wants to be just like UND. My guess is that most of the people involved with City Scapes is an NDSU booster.

[ESPNInsider]

Once again with this whole thing is that still NDSU wants to be just like UND.  My guess is that most of the people involved with City Scapes is an NDSU booster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you talking about? They just left D-II if they wanted to be just like us they would have stayed and added hockey? Doesn't make sense

[sioux7]

[NDSU grad]

Once again with this whole thing is that still NDSU wants to be just like UND.  My guess is that most of the people involved with City Scapes is an NDSU booster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of the very articles about Cityscapes mentioned the gentlemen involved. If my feeble mind serves me correctly, I believe the president (or CEO or whatever) is a UND alum, while the second-in-command is an NDSU alum.

[ESPNInsider]

[mikejm]

I will vote against the project. A 7500 seat downtown arena is not a good investment when there are likely only two tenants who'll come close to filling the place: SU basketball (m/w).

IMO the entire development is not about providing a venue for sporting events, etc. It is to bring public funds into a project that would not work if it had to pay for the land acquisiton on its own. There has been a pretty remarkable (relatively speaking) number of very high-priced condominiums built and sold in downtown Fargo the last few years, and Cityscapes wants in on the deal. They only own a tiny corner of the block they want to build on, and most of the rest of the land owners there don't want to sell. By bringing in a public facility, they can get the public to not only help buy down their development costs, but also use eminent domain to force owners who don't want to sell out.

One of Fargo's city commissioners has suggested spending $5 million or so to install big-time ice making equipment in the FargoDome. If I'm going to pay for a hockey rink that will rarely sell-out, I'd much rather have the tab at $5 mil than the $40 their asking for.

There are many other problems with the Cityscapes proposal that should kill it: parking is a huge deficiency; as is traffic flow into and out of downtown if they ever did sell out 7500 seats.

Downtown Fargo has quiety undergone a fairly impressive re-birth over the last 10 years or so without a public "investment" of this scope. I will be voting "no" early and often Tuesday.

As to Fargo's ability to attract and then support a USHL team, take a look at the average attendance for Gino's league, and compare it to the NAHL. The F-M Jets are a fun little team, but they averaged less than 800 attendance (in what is admitedly a crappy building). I've heard that somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the season ticket holders at REA are from Fargo, which I believe because I-29 traffic on game nights is pretty heavy between F-m and GF.

If the Jets can't pull 1000 fans from a market of this size, what makes anyone think the USHL will do twice that? And that would still put the F-M team at the bottom of the USHL attendance!

I've lived in F-M for almost 20 years now, and I am not convinced this town will ever support a big-time hockey program, be it Juniors or DI. And from what I know from personal conversations with SU athletic administrators, hockey isn't even a blip on their radar screen.

USHL Attendance

Lincoln 4,425

Indiana 4,045

Tri-City 4,032

Green Bay 3,690

Omaha 3,545

Sioux Falls 3,430

Cedar Rapids 2,729

Waterloo 2,633

Des Moines 2,581

Sioux City 2,303

Chicago 1,962

League Average: 3,216

NAHL Attendance

Texas 3,709

Wichita Falls 1,948

Bozeman 1,870

Fairbanks 1,828

Billings 1,761

Texarkana 1,412

Springfield (IL) 1,089

Helena 992

Soo 978

Bismarck 885

Fargo-Moorhead 782

Springfield (MO) 608

Minnesota 597

Youngstown 533

Toledo 495

Cleveland 469

Santa Fe 438

Central Texas 378

US National 255

League Average: 1,087

Sorry for the long-winded post, but this arena proposal is a bad deal. Leave big time hockey to the Sioux and REA and good old Grand Forks.

[jloos]

I will vote against the project. A 7500 seat downtown arena is not a good investment when there are likely only two tenants who'll come close to filling the place: SU basketball (m/w).

IMO the entire development is not about providing a venue for sporting events, etc. It is to bring public funds into a project that would not work if it had to pay for the land acquisiton on its own. There has been a pretty remarkable (relatively speaking) number of very high-priced condominiums built and sold in downtown Fargo the last few years, and Cityscapes wants in on the deal. They only own a tiny corner of the block they want to build on, and most of the rest of the land owners there don't want to sell. By bringing in a public facility, they can get the public to not only help buy down their development costs, but also use eminent domain to force owners who don't want to sell out.

One of Fargo's city commissioners has suggested spending $5 million or so to install big-time ice making equipment in the FargoDome. If I'm going to pay for a hockey rink that will rarely sell-out, I'd much rather have the tab at $5 mil than the $40 their asking for.

There are many other problems with the Cityscapes proposal that should kill it: parking is a huge deficiency; as is traffic flow into and out of downtown if they ever did sell out 7500 seats.

Downtown Fargo has quiety undergone a fairly impressive re-birth over the last 10 years or so without a public "investment" of this scope. I will be voting "no" early and often Tuesday.

As to Fargo's ability to attract and then support a USHL team, take a look at the average attendance for Gino's league, and compare it to the NAHL. The F-M Jets are a fun little team, but they averaged less than 800 attendance (in what is admitedly a crappy building). I've heard that somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the season ticket holders at REA are from Fargo, which I believe because I-29 traffic on game nights is pretty heavy between F-m and GF.

If the Jets can't pull 1000 fans from a market of this size, what makes anyone think the USHL will do twice that? And that would still put the F-M team at the bottom of the USHL attendance!

I've lived in F-M for almost 20 years now, and I am not convinced this town will ever support a big-time hockey program, be it Juniors or DI. And from what I know from personal conversations with SU athletic administrators, hockey isn't even a blip on their radar screen.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but this arena proposal is a bad deal. Leave big time hockey to the Sioux and REA and good old Grand Forks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nicely put. I am a huge hockey/Fargo guy, but this proposal is simply retarded. This is the worse case of putting the cart before the horse - let's build a rink then find a team to play in it What it is, is a proposal for Bollinger and others to get richer off the taxpayers.

You would think they would have learned their lesson with the Express, Sugarkings, Bears, IceSharks, (soon the Jets) and other junior hockey programs that haven't lasted more than a couple of years. Fargo has a ton of hockey fans - but the majority of them spend their weekends watching their kids and/or the Sioux. Most would rather watch a MHD game than a Jets game (MHD had much better attendance).

Plus they would take down Lauerman's - which is the best bar in the F-M area.

The only thing I disagree with in your post is the SU BB would never come close to filling the arena - again the MHD HS hockey team had more attendance than the 'D1' BB program at SU.

[redwing77]

Tonite on the news they interviewed Gino Gasparini. He said if that arena passes he would love to put a team in fargo. That a better rink would help bring people out to the games and so on. What are peoples thoughts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thought here is that there is no way it will work. Fargo isn't a hockey town. A location doesn't lose a team for a number of years and then suddenly get a new one when a new arena jumps up in front of them.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a USHL team back in Fargo, but the attendance right now would do two things:

1. Taper off dramatically as the arena grows into "just a part of the community" (newness wears off over time)

2. Spell the end of the NAHL team currently in Fargo unless the "new" team Gino is talking about is the Jets switching conferences.

Either way, let's look at some facts:

1. The arena committee doesn't have a clear concept of how parking is going to work. They simply have no plan on this very important matter.

2. They are no longer billing it as a "Downtown hockey arena" but instead marketing it as a "Multipurpose" facility of some sort, so even they know that the hockey thing is a pipedream.

Lastly, the common feeling in Fargo is that it is going to get voted down like 80-20 against.

[ScottM]

Good grief, how many junior hockey teams has Fargo-Moorhead had? Has somebody been watching "Field of Dreams" under the influence of O'Douls "beer"? There are too many hockey options within an hour's drive for another hockey team to enter that market, whether it's high school, college (including Concordia) or the local park board teams. Fargo is not a "hockey town", and throwing more money into another USHL franchise and arena DT is not going to change that. Frankly, I think the only way this might change is if 'SU ever committed the money and resources to developing a D1 hockey program, which would probably require a major benefactor. But for the foreseeable future I think Chaps' eyes are on travel expenses and jet fuel futures for his new D1 collosus.

[CoteauRinkRat]

There are many other problems with the Cityscapes proposal that should kill it: parking is a huge deficiency; as is traffic flow into and out of downtown if they ever did sell out 7500 seats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I can't get over is how the backers of the proposal have been on tv and radio, and have been quoted in the paper saying that parking isn't that big of a problem in downtown Fargo and that is a big misconception they are trying to get over.

What world are these people living in anyways?

[RD17]

It's funny...I happened to be in Fargo one evening last week and ate at the Old Broadway in downtown Fargo. For those that don't know, the "OB" is a restaraunt/bar and is right across the street from the proposed arena site. The OB stands to gain from not only the new arena, but also the elimination of competition (Lauerman's and the Sports Bar would have to be torn down in the construction). Not surprisingly, the OB had quite a few signs up touting the benefits of the new arena and encouraging people to vote for it.

The other thing I can't comprehend about this whole arena deal is how the proponents can say there won't be a parking problem. The same city block where they want to build the arena is about half parking lot right now and some of the most important parking space in downtown Fargo! Makes no sense to me.

As an aside, an arena proposal seems to me to be something the city of Moorhead should be looking at. I realize that Moorhead doesn't have anywhere close to the sales tax base that Fargo has, but if a plan could be worked out to build a decent 5,000-6,000 seat hockey arena/convention center and place it along the interstate in South Moorhead it would revitalize the entire area. There is already one new hotel (Courtyard by Marriott, I think) in that area and I'm sure another hotel developer could also be convinced to move in and build an attached hotel.

Bring in an USHL team or even convince MSUM or Concordia to start a DI hockey program and you have one permanent tenant. Plus it could be a venue for Minnesota high school tournaments (both hockey and basketball) and give the city of Moorhead something of "their own" to take pride in and support. Plus, I think Moorhead is more of a hockey town anyway and more likely to support a team if it plays its games in the city. Maybe this is all somewhat far-fetched, but the more I think about it, the more it makes some sense.

[#1siouxfan22]

Well done, I like the Moorhead idea with a USHL team in it.

[dakotadan]

That's like saying, "Why did GF build the Alerus when they could have built a bunch of football fields around town.  They just wanted to be like Fargo."  No, there was a need for a convention center, as in Fargo there is a need for a mid-size convention center right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does Fargo need another convention center for? The civic center in downtown Fargo just went through a major remodel. The fargodome is having to come up with more creative events to hold to keep its schedule full. Plus, there are 2 brand new venues sitting just north of fargo. The Red River Valley is getting watered down for venues. I agree that F/M could use a decent hockey facility. But if they needed a new mid-size convention center, why did they spend all of that money remodeling the civic center which this would essentially replace.

[star2city]

As an aside, an arena proposal seems to me to be something the city of Moorhead should be looking at. I realize that Moorhead doesn't have anywhere close to the sales tax base that Fargo has, but if a plan could be worked out to build a decent 5,000-6,000 seat hockey arena/convention center and place it along the interstate in South Moorhead it would revitalize the entire area. There is already one new hotel (Courtyard by Marriott, I think) in that area and I'm sure another hotel developer could also be convinced to move in and build an attached hotel.

Bring in an USHL team or even convince MSUM or Concordia to start a DI hockey program and you have one permanent tenant. Plus it could be a venue for Minnesota high school tournaments (both hockey and basketball) and give the city of Moorhead something of "their own" to take pride in and support. Plus, I think Moorhead is more of a hockey town anyway and more likely to support a team if it plays its games in the city. Maybe this is all somewhat far-fetched, but the more I think about it, the more it makes some sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This would really make a lot of sense for Moorhead. This year, MHD H S hockey probably could have sold out their games in that size arena. In Minnesota, it seems the state is more willing to chip in funding for arenas, especially if a state university benefits . (Are not both Bemidji and Duluth getting new arenas that are at least partiallly paid for from state funds?)