star2city Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Turtle Mountain tribe explores off-reservation gaming in Grand Forks Personally, I've never been a proponent of gambling as an economic engine (in spite of what Las Vegas and even Biloxi, Mississippi have become) not only because of the social cost, but also because it negatively affects the local business culture in ways detrimental to manufacturing and service industries (all IMHO, of course). It will be interesting how this develops locally and at the state level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 I'm all for a GF casino. Less distance to drive. Casinos equal big bucks for the community. Bring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1siouxfan22 Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 GF could use a casino it would bring alot more people to the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Wait a second.... are casinos even legal in North Dakota off reservation? If they are, would it really benefit Grand Forks.. it kind of sounds like it will benefit the turtle mountain reservation more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Wait a second.... are casinos even legal in North Dakota off reservation? If they are, would it really benefit Grand Forks.. it kind of sounds like it will benefit the turtle mountain reservation more than anything. There were rumors that Ralph was trying to keep the some of the American Indian tribes happy so that he could work out a casino deal with them in the Grand Forks area. I don't know if there is any legal way that, or the current situation, could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Herald editorial in favor of casino. Pretty shy on substantitive support of the position, but a little useful background info. It does address the legality a little, U2Bad1, but not in detail: Yet the Chippewa of Turtle Mountain want to benefit from Indian gaming just as other reservation communities have done. Grand Forks is a possibility for them because it lies within lands historically claimed by the tribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 If a casino opens in Grand Forks, the charities that are currently benefitting from charitable gaming are going to lose lots of money. Money that they count on as part of their annual budgets. I have a dozen other concerns about this too, but this is a community forum, not a political one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Casinos have the potential to bring serious economic development, but there are huge costs that never get factored in. Go to any off-reservation town that has a full-fledged casino in it, and count the number of payday lenders, pawn shops and subprime finance companies. It's a nice "halo effect" for those of us who work in consumer finance. We do a ton of business in and around casino towns in Nevada, California, Illinois and other states. Most of our bankruptcy filings in these areas indicate a gambling issue at some level, which often includes the deadbeat's home. It's not a pretty sight to see some 70 year old retiree evicted from their home of 40 years because they couldn't stay away from the slots or tables. It always amuses me that casinos trot out "gamblers anonymous" brochures on their premises, but sure as hell don't limit how much money you give them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighting Sioux Fan Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 What does Grad Forks need a casino for? Their is a real good casino just an hour away from GF in Thief River Falls! That casino should do a shuttle bus program where it picks up people from GF, drives them there and brings them back. A casino may bring jobs, but how well do most of those jobs pay? Grand Forks already has too many businesses that do not pay a lot of money, mostly retail and restaurants. The cost to buy or rent a place to live in GF has become very expensive compared to the area. A casino would also bring in bad stuff like more debt to people. GF already has plenty of pay day loans shops and other similar places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 What does Grad Forks need a casino for? Their is a real good casino just an hour away from GF in Thief River Falls! And 1 1/2 hours away in Devils Lake, and 1 1/2 hours away in Mahnomen, etc., etc. ScottM, you make some very good points. While I don't deal with such economic situations day to day, I have seen some of these problems develop with one of our employees. Just like driving drunk... out of control gambling can make you drive your car into a bridge abutment. Yes, I'm serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 So they can build a casino in Grand Forks because the tribe once held the land which contains grand forks?? So why doesn't the standing rock tribe try to build a casino in Bismarck?? I think pretty much any indian reservation in ND can stake a claim to most of our state if this is allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Casinos have the potential to bring serious economic development, but there are huge costs that never get factored in. Go to any off-reservation town that has a full-fledged casino in it, and count the number of payday lenders, pawn shops and subprime finance companies. It's a nice "halo effect" for those of us who work in consumer finance. We do a ton of business in and around casino towns in Nevada, California, Illinois and other states. Most of our bankruptcy filings in these areas indicate a gambling issue at some level, which often includes the deadbeat's home. It's not a pretty sight to see some 70 year old retiree evicted from their home of 40 years because they couldn't stay away from the slots or tables. This study from Creighton University confirms the above statement: Every year Americans lose as much money on legal gambling as they spend on movies, amusement parks, spectator sports, and video games combined—which is one reason that opponents of legalized casinos claim that gambling leads to financial ruin for many Americans. Yet proponents claim that legalized gambling is a boon to local economies. According to a recent study by scholars at Creighton University, in Omaha, Nebraska, both the critics and the boosters are right. Looking at the gambling boom years of the 1990s, when casino revenues more than tripled nationally, the researchers conclude that counties with casinos suffered individual bankruptcy rates more than double the rates in demographically similar counties without casinos. But the bankruptcy rate for businesses in these "casino counties" was 35 percent lower than in their betting-free counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 (edited) So they can build a casino in Grand Forks because the tribe once held the land which contains grand forks?? No, legally they can't without state and federal government approval, which won't be easy. Turtle Mountain wants a casino near a population base, which Grand Forks, being between Fargo and Winnipeg, conveniently provides relative to Belcourt. The claims of historical ties are of minor legal benefit. Edited late additions from Sunday's Herald: Casino legal hurdles Turtle Mountain ties to GF The White Earth and Red Lake Chippewa tribes in Minnesota, being envious of the enormous amounts of gambling profits being made by tribes near the Cities, have been pleading poverty and asking the Minnesota Legislature for approval to build an off-reservation casino in the northwest suburbs or by the Mall of America (with the State of Minnesota getting a piece of the profits). The legislation failed this year, but next year it is considered more likely to pass. Although the Turtle Mountain tribe would want the casino just off I-29, if it had to happen, a location further away such as near Turtle River State Park would better. The twenty miles or so would provide separation from the city and maybe some golf course and more extensive trail rides for horses and/or X-country skiing could be developed. Edited June 13, 2004 by star2city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 The herald article referred to a city which has Riverboat gambling. I believe Bismarck does have a riverboat casino. Is that operated by a Native American Tribe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 The herald article referred to a city which has Riverboat gambling. I believe Bismarck does have a riverboat casino. Is that operated by a Native American Tribe? Bismarck has a riverboat, but i don't believe they have a riverboat with gambling on it. Also, Grand forks is the THIRD largest city in ND.. not second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Also, Grand forks is the THIRD largest city in ND.. not second. That is technically true, according to the 2000 U.S. Census, although I strongly suspect that if the large majority of the roughly 12,000-plus UND students actually listed Grand Forks as their domicile, as I believe they are supposed to since they spend the majority of the year here, the numbers may come out a little differently. From what I understand, most college students tend to list their hometowns as where they lived prior to college, even though they probably only actually reside there for a few months in the summer, at most. As such, the census numbers don't perhaps reflect actual populations of towns with fairly large universities all that accurately. While it's true that most college students leave after their college days are over, another group inevitably takes its place so that 10,500 to 12,500 are a pretty constant number that I don't believe is necessarily reflected by the census. Although it would be nearly impossible to measure, I wouldn't be surprised if Grand Forks actually has more people living within its city limits, at least from August through May, than does Bismarck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 That is technically true, according to the 2000 U.S. Census, although I strongly suspect that if the large majority of the roughly 12,000-plus UND students actually listed Grand Forks as their domicile, as I believe they are supposed to since they spend the majority of the year here, the numbers may come out a little differently. From what I understand, most college students tend to list their hometowns as where they lived prior to college, even though they probably only actually reside there for a few months in the summer, at most. As such, the census numbers don't perhaps reflect actual populations of towns with fairly large universities all that accurately. While it's true that most college students leave after their college days are over, another group inevitably takes its place so that 10,500 to 12,500 are a pretty constant number that I don't believe is necessarily reflected by the census. Although it would be nearly impossible to measure, I wouldn't be surprised if Grand Forks actually has more people living within its city limits, at least from August through May, than does Bismarck. A lot of that population is people who dont even live in grand forks at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 A lot of that population is people who dont even live in grand forks at all. I'm assuming you mean the UND population, as opposed to the reported population of 49,000-plus in Grand Forks. It's true that not every UND student lives in Grand Forks, although I suspect that the vast majority do. And if we further assume (I know the old saying about assuming anything ) that a good percentage of those students are claiming anything other than Grand Forks as their residence for census purposes, then the population of Grand Forks is artificially low. Whether they're counted as such or not, there's something like 10,000 or more UND students here for at least 3/4 of the year, and they're as much of a resident as those of us who live here year-round as far as I'm concerned. If somebody has data to dispute my theory, I'm interested in reading it. I'm generally skeptical of census numbers since I don't believe they are particularly accurate, but I suppose there's no better method at present for measuring population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Prior to the 2000 census, the government would use the enrollment numbers provided by the schools. In the 2000 census, they do have a "group housing" category that has a college/university division. If anyone has some patience, here's the official site-LINK It's more fun to find something than the NCAA site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Does Winnipeg have a casino? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1siouxfan22 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Keep in mind, that of all 12,000 or so of UND's students a lot of those are also taking courses through correspondence. Some of these peeople have probably never even set foot in North Dakota. Add to this number all of the students who claim grand forks as their residence in the census, and I doubt that would account for the 6,000 or so population edge that bismarck has on grand forks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 To the earlier question, Winnipeg has at least one casino. I believe it's at the top of the Fort Garry Hotel. It's where well-heeled Asians and Euros go to lose their Rolex and Mercedes. I doubt a GF casino, like most Indian casinos, would appeal to the same demographics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Canad Inns operates the Club Regent Hotel and Casino in Winnipeg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 I think if the state is going to allow a Casino in ND off reservation it should be a state run casino. The profits could be used to help influence more technology and better types of business to the state. If it is going to be done (I am not really certain if it would be good or bad) the state and all people in the state should see a some type of benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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