NDUS Budget Cuts (changed name to be system-wide)

[UNDBIZ]

2 minutes ago, NDMoonStars said:

Variety of options for UND and NDSU. What it likely will come down to is a mix of some of the following things (these are all theoretical possibilities):

• I think 1-2 more sports can perhaps be cut Unlikely either school drops below 16 sports.  A change in sports offerings (replacement of high cost sports with a lower cost sport) is certainly possible.
• Continued faculty/staff buyouts
• Reduction in graduate programs (Ph.D/Ed.D especially, but could be MA also)
• Elimination of smaller undergraduate programs
• Increase in teaching load for tenure track/tenured faculty
• Continued loss of jobs (without replacement) in administrative offices (this really only has a marginal benefit in terms of costs though)
• Reduction in research grant outlays
• Continued closing down of older buildings, dorms, etc., as fewer students are on campus at UND (I think the same is true at NDSU to a slightly lesser degree)
• Increase of tuition on Minnesota residents, but this would be marginal short-term benefit and potentially large long-term cost  Minnesota reciprocity pricing is a statewide item negotiated with the state of Minnesota.  I believe it's currently negotiated at no more than 112% of resident tuition.

Basically the same things that have already happened are likely to occur, but most likely with more elimination of programs. More drastic things are possible, but not that likely to occur IMO. 

That likely gets an additional 10% cut assuming no larger structural or fiscal changes occur such as changing the Constitution to shut down 2-3 smaller universities or taking money from the Legacy Fund to offset a portion of this (I don't anticipate that happening; perhaps interest, but it doesn't solve the longer term fiscal issues). Depends really on what the Legislature decides to do as the ball will be in their court.

Unpopular, but theoretical larger things that could happen (probably not likely but theoretical possibilities):

• Elimination/modification of/partial exemption to law only allowing tuition increases of 2.5% per annum I think(?), but that is really a long-term answer (although I think larger increases of MN resident tuition can be done, with potential loss of students from Minnesota) Law was a 4% maximum increase per year for 2017-18 and 2018-19, excluding professional and graduate programs, which had no max.
• Constitutional amendment with full court press from both state legislature and governor actively campaigning for change 
• Use of some money from Legacy Fund to reduce burden to some extent (not likely and would have relatively small impact I think, but would allow additional attrition from retirements and not replacing people who retire)
• Differential cuts (different colleges/universities get cut different amounts percentage-wise rather than evenly distributed across universities/units within universities; perhaps the best, but politically toughest option)

Responses/clarifications on a few of your suggestions.

[NDMoonStars]

1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

Responses/clarifications on a few of your suggestions.

#1: Not sure what minimum number of sports are total to be in Summit League or D1 (I want to say it's 14, but don't quote me on this).

#2: Then that option can't happen (not sure if it couldn't be changed in both ends with renegotiation though, where ND schools raise rates on MN students and MN raises rates on ND students). Many MN universities also are in serious need of additional revenue.

#3: I thought it was 4% combined for the two years. If it is 4% per year, then that issue is less of a concern and also harder to justify changing.

[darell1976]

13 minutes ago, NDMoonStars said:

#1: Not sure what minimum number of sports are total to be in Summit League or D1 (I want to say it's 14, but don't quote me on this).

#2: Then that option can't happen (not sure if it couldn't be changed in both ends with renegotiation though, where ND schools raise rates on MN students and MN raises rates on ND students). Many MN universities also are in serious need of additional revenue.

#3: I thought it was 4% combined for the two years. If it is 4% per year, then that issue is less of a concern and also harder to justify changing.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/4104257-und-committee-looks-requirements-big-sky-summit-league

A move to the Summit would require UND to only sponsor seven sports—two of which must be men's and women's basketball—and then five additional core sports that UND can choose.

[NDMoonStars]

2 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/4104257-und-committee-looks-requirements-big-sky-summit-league

A move to the Summit would require UND to only sponsor seven sports—two of which must be men's and women's basketball—and then five additional core sports that UND can choose.

I think there are additional requirements (higher) for D1 more set by the NCAA(?) beyond Summit League requirements. I could be wrong on this though. I have always thought the magic number is in the neighborhood of 14.

[NDMoonStars]

http://www.prettytough.com/whats-the-difference-between-divisions-i-ii-and-iii-schools/

If this is correct, must have 7 sports for men and 7 for women with two team sports for each gender (or can have six for men and eight for women).

[darell1976]

9 minutes ago, NDMoonStars said:

I think there are additional requirements (higher) for D1 more set by the NCAA(?) beyond Summit League requirements. I could be wrong on this though. I have always thought the magic number is in the neighborhood of 14.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification

it is 14 for DI

[petey23]

2 hours ago, darell1976 said:

How about we cut some 4 year schools down to a 2 year. We need only 4 of them in this state (UND, NDSU, Minot St and Mary). If our state is hurting that much that it’s cut, cut, cut every year maybe looking at this needs to be brought to Burgum’s attention.

Mary and Jamestown are private

[SWSiouxMN]

1 hour ago, NDMoonStars said:

#1: Not sure what minimum number of sports are total to be in Summit League or D1 (I want to say it's 14, but don't quote me on this).

#2: Then that option can't happen (not sure if it couldn't be changed in both ends with renegotiation though, where ND schools raise rates on MN students and MN raises rates on ND students). Many MN universities also are in serious need of additional revenue.

#3: I thought it was 4% combined for the two years. If it is 4% per year, then that issue is less of a concern and also harder to justify changing.

Can't speak on 2 or 3, but another potential issue for #1 is that if UND agreed to sponsor x sports in the Summit and they cut them, they could face another financial penalty or worse.  They had to pay one for cutting Swim and Dive teams (it was about $300,000) if I recall.

 

[darell1976]

2 hours ago, petey23 said:

Mary and Jamestown are private

Is Bismarck State College 4 year?

[NDMoonStars]

 4 year universities are UND, NDSU, Minot State, Valley City State, Mayville State, and Dickinson State. Bismarck State has some 4 year programs, but is mostly 2 year.

[darell1976]

22 minutes ago, NDMoonStars said:

 4 year universities are UND, NDSU, Minot State, Valley City State, Mayville State, and Dickinson State. Bismarck State has some 4 year programs, but is mostly 2 year.

There is no reason they need to be 4 year. Instead of cutting from the major universities, cut these instead.

[CarpeRemote]

The football team virtually bleeds money. Negative revenue of 2.3 million in 2016.

I barely missed a hockey game in my four years but I might have been to the Potato Bowl once, ate a potato, and left at halftime. Small college football is going the way of the dodo at an accelerating rate. 

I will duck now. 

 

[Kab]

Bismarck state is a two year school and I believe has more students than Dickinson,Minot, Mayville or Valley City. Thes 4 year schools all have university titles, they need to get back to being 4year colleges and leave the two universities for advanced degrees.  Why are we duplicating advanced degrees at these schools?

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

2 minutes ago, CarpeRemote said:

The football team virtually bleeds money. Negative revenue of 2.3 million in 2016.

I barely missed a hockey game in my four years but I might have been to the Potato Bowl once, ate a potato, and left at halftime. Small college football is going the way of the dodo at an accelerating rate. 

I will duck now. 

 

Football - a consummate money-loser for many schools - is a bit of a challenge because pretty much every school built its Title IX compliance program around the big, male-only albatross. I suspect the elimination of football will look better on the balance sheet than in real life.

[UND-1]

5 minutes ago, CarpeRemote said:

The football team virtually bleeds money. Negative revenue of 2.3 million in 2016.

I barely missed a hockey game in my four years but I might have been to the Potato Bowl once, ate a potato, and left at halftime. Small college football is going the way of the dodo at an accelerating rate. 

I will duck now. 

 

Uh oh...womens hockey fan/staff alert!  Is that you BobHawks4?  

[UNDBIZ]

4 minutes ago, Kab said:

Bismarck state is a two year school and I believe has more students than Dickinson,Minot, Mayville or Valley City. Thes 4 year schools all have university titles, they need to get back to being 4year colleges and leave the two universities for advanced degrees.  Why are we duplicating advanced degrees at these schools?

Minot State is the only one of the 4 making a legitimate push for graduate degrees. 

[SWSiouxMN]

So if UND had to cut 10%, what would have be ballpark wise in dollar sense?

 

[UNDBIZ]

13 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

So if UND had to cut 10%, what would have be ballpark wise in dollar sense?

Around $13-14 million plus another $4-5 million from the med school. 

[SWSiouxMN]

4 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Around $13-14 million plus another $4-5 million from the med school. 

that's per year or for the 2 year budget?

 

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, SWSiouxMN said:

that's per year or for the 2 year budget?

2 year budget. 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

14 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Around $13-14 million plus another $4-5 million from the med school. 

Cadavers will soon be charged a "cold storage recovery fee."

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

The immediate financial future of agriculture isn't too encouraging. Oil has had a recent slight up kick. Overall solid future revenues, for present ND spending, are discouraging.

Yes, we can live on less. It's like most want the services that our state provides but not necessarily want to pitch in to pay for them?  What gives?

A 5 - 10% cut through out the state for the next biennium yields a continued drop in population.

[CarpeRemote]

16 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Football - a consummate money-loser for many schools - is a bit of a challenge because pretty much every school built its Title IX compliance program around the big, male-only albatross. I suspect the elimination of football will look better on the balance sheet than in real life.

Or would it make it easier to comply if we gave up that many men’s schollies? 

I know enough about Title IX to be dangerous but my wife is an HR attorney who deals with Title IX suits, and I sleep at Holiday Inns. Without a lot of background info she said eliminating a football team is more likely to solve than create IX issues. 

It seems odd a school would allow losing enough money on one poorly supported sport to wipe out the deficits of 7-8 sports.

I feel like an actor in the commercial where we become our parents for even discussing a football cut, and I admit I’m bias because I love our hockey program. From a sports perspective hockey is our identity. I live in the east and and no matter how cocky people are about their behemoth football they defer entirely to UND hockey.  

Side note: I wonder how we are able to lose about double the money on women’s basketball and volleyball than NDSU

[SWSiouxMN]

I find it more likely that FCOA gets cut over another sport. (which either option doesn't seem all that likely to me anyways)

Will be interesting next year to see how much money UND does save on travel costs when they head over to the Summit. 

 

[darell1976]

20 minutes ago, CarpeRemote said:

Or would it make it easier to comply if we gave up that many men’s schollies? 

I know enough about Title IX to be dangerous but my wife is an HR attorney who deals with Title IX suits, and I sleep at Holiday Inns. Without a lot of background info she said eliminating a football team is more likely to solve than create IX issues. 

It seems odd a school would allow losing enough money on one poorly supported sport to wipe out the deficits of 7-8 sports.

I feel like an actor in the commercial where we become our parents for even discussing a football cut, and I admit I’m bias because I love our hockey program. From a sports perspective hockey is our identity. I live in the east and and no matter how cocky people are about their behemoth football they defer entirely to UND hockey.  

Side note: I wonder how we are able to lose about double the money on women’s basketball and volleyball than NDSU

Nothing about football is getting cut.....PERIOD!!