UND Football Expectations

[UND-FB-FAN]

http://www.undsports.com/fls/13500/Athletic%20Dept/BusOps/FY%202014%20NCAA%20AUP.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=13500

NCAA Report

Reporting Year (FY): 2014

Total Operating Revenues:

Football ---> $571,570

Men's Basketball ----> $402,211

Men's Hockey------> $4,140,720

Total Operating Expenses:

Football -----> $3,129,340

Men's Basketball -----> $ 1,085,943

Men's Hockey ----> $5,633,741

Excess of Revenue over Expenses:

Football----> - $2,557,700

Men's Basketball ----> - $683,732

Men's Hockey -----> - $1,493,021

To summarize, look at expenses, which covers vital program quality indicators such as coaching salaries, recruiting costs, and equipment/uniform costs. UND hockey uses $2 million more than UND football. That is where the change needs to happen; too large of a discrepancy. Hockey can still be king at a $1 million difference.

And if the annual loss of money surprises you, then read this: http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx

Winning athletic programs may ultimately affect total university revenue by increasing enrollment numbers; thus, collegiate athletics are very much so thriving. Of course, it is limited to fan favorite sports; football and basketball. Grand Forks is the exception as it is a hockey town.

If I add to this, it would be - as some posters pointed out - that the UND hockey operations revenue is under-reported. That is, the REA likely appropriates funds to the athletic department; however, with that said, I think that would still be listed under contributions. Bottom-line: even UND hockey is a losing money operation; however, student fees cover that up real quickly. It's a matter of "how much" do the programs lose relatively speaking. Currently,football loses the most, but winning and upping attendance would have an effect on that.

[jdub27]

UND athletics doesn't report any REA revenue, including tickets. UND athletics gets booster club memberships directly and a charitable contribution by the REA

Its complicated to figure UND athletics accounting. Almost need a CPA.

 

UND receives the revenue from ticket sales for UND sports, though they contract with REA to handle them.  If you were referring other events, then no, UND wouldn't report any of those.

 

I believe the number the only UND-related ticket numbers that might not be included would be the suites at the Alerus and REA.  I'm not sure how those are handled, though I know that the total revenue brought in by the ones at the REA is significant and only growing due to the large waiting list they continue to have for them.

[JohnboyND7]

Actually agree with you, as women's hockey is critical for Title IX. That why Idalski's salary is higher than even most men's coaches.

What is the equivalent women's sport for NDSU pedestal sport of football? No one women's sport shares Fargodome Taj Majal facilities that were built just for football: meeting rooms etc. How does NDSU women's sports meet Tier I, II, and III, if football is tier I, basketball tier II, and the rest of men's sports tier III. By the logic you've layer out, all NDSU women's are Tier III. Maybe Womens basketball could be argued as a Tier II program, but it doesn't near the emphasis that the men's program does.

How does NDSU correct its serious Title IX issues, in both not having a Tier I Womens program and being grievously off balance in proportionality. Its practically a miracle the Obama's Dept of Education hasn't called NDSU on the carpet regarding Title IX.

Women's basketball shares facility with men.

Softball and volleyball each have their own place to play.

Probably an overly simplistic view though.

[UND1983]

Mods: I would say this thread has gone way off track. Any chance of moving the Title IX crap somewhere else?

[UND Fan]

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Mods: I would say this thread has gone way off track. Any chance of moving the Title IX crap somewhere else?

Fully agree!  Guys - please have the courtesy to start a new thread for this.

[darell1976]

103 days until Wyoming!!

[Irish]

Fully agree!  Guys - please have the courtesy to start a new thread for this.

Yes, let's get back to blaming hockey for football's failures.  Actually, there are many reasons why we find ourselves having to climb out of an 8 year Musshole.  A poor hiring decision in the first place, a shortsighted contract extension, loss of revenue caused by play on the field (Muss put out the cockiest, mouthiest 3-8 team I have ever seen) to name a few.  It's not Hockey's fault that they are one of the premier programs in the country and have demanding, dedicated fans.  Actually, our incredible tolerance for mediocrity and crap teams contributed greatly to the great slide.  In every other sport but hockey we not only accept, but some vocally defend poor programs (see Men's BB).  I hate to say it, but there is absolutely no way in God's green earth that the school to the south would have tolerated Muss for 8 years.  That's the problem.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

Yes, let's get back to blaming hockey for football's failures. Actually, there are many reasons why we find ourselves having to climb out of an 8 year Musshole. A poor hiring decision in the first place, a shortsighted contract extension, loss of revenue caused by play on the field (Muss put out the cockiest, mouthiest 3-8 team I have ever seen) to name a few. It's not Hockey's fault that they are one of the premier programs in the country and have demanding, dedicated fans. Actually, our incredible tolerance for mediocrity and crap teams contributed greatly to the great slide. In every other sport but hockey we not only accept, but some vocally defend poor programs (see Men's BB). I hate to say it, but there is absolutely no way in God's green earth that the school to the south would have tolerated Muss for 8 years. That's the problem.

So then, if we want to not focus on the relatively insufficient finances for football and basketball, what is the reason why UND football does not have a top 3 salary pool in the Big Sky Conference (it's No. 4 I believe) and why is UND baketball stuck with a mediocre coach at best in Jones and not made important upgrades to the Betty?

UND football is on the right path, I honestly believe it, but there's still no reason to now become complacent. Let's look at the facts: UND has yet to have a winning record as a member of the Big Sky Conference. There's no end to the potential coming up, but the winning still needs to be done. Finances need to be raised, and when hockey sucks up over $5.6 million per year, there's definitey some budget there that could be used on football uniform costs, HPC Phase II costs, and/or Betty Upgrades.

[The Sicatoka]

Mods: I would say this thread has gone way off track. Any chance of moving the Title IX crap somewhere else?

 

 

Fully agree!  Guys - please have the courtesy to start a new thread for this.

 

Done (as well as I could). I tried to keep the football related things here but had to use some on-the-fly judgments. 

[JohnboyND7]

So then, if we want to not focus on the relatively insufficient finances for football and basketball, what is the reason why UND football does not have a top 3 salary pool in the Big Sky Conference (it's No. 4 I believe) and why is UND baketball stuck with a mediocre coach at best in Jones and not made important upgrades to the Betty?

UND football is on the right path, I honestly believe it, but there's still no reason to now become complacent. Let's look at the facts: UND has yet to have a winning record as a member of the Big Sky Conference. There's no end to the potential coming up, but the winning still needs to be done. Finances need to be raised, and when hockey sucks up over $5.6 million per year, there's definitey some budget there that could be used on football uniform costs, HPC Phase II costs, and/or Betty Upgrades.

Zero reason UND shouldn't be a perennial top 3rd of the conference team. Only UM, MSY, and EWU should really ever be in the way.

Time to drop sports and pursue actual excellence. Welcome to division 1.

[darell1976]

Why was UND dominant in basketball, football, and hockey at the same time in the 90's and early 2000's? Winning a national title in WBB and hockey in back to back months (1997) and football and hockey winning it in back to back years (hockey in 2000 and football in 01). Now you have hockey going to the frozen four every year, football is struggling but hopefully moving forward WBB went to the dance 2 years ago while MBB struggles to stay above .500. Is it the administration? Coaches? Competition?

[JohnboyND7]

Why was UND dominant in basketball, football, and hockey at the same time in the 90's and early 2000's? Winning a national title in WBB and hockey in back to back months (1997) and football and hockey winning it in back to back years (hockey in 2000 and football in 01). Now you have hockey going to the frozen four every year, football is struggling but hopefully moving forward WBB went to the dance 2 years ago while MBB struggles to stay above .500. Is it the administration? Coaches? Competition?

Money.

[dmksioux]

Why was UND dominant in basketball, football, and hockey at the same time in the 90's and early 2000's? Winning a national title in WBB and hockey in back to back months (1997) and football and hockey winning it in back to back years (hockey in 2000 and football in 01). Now you have hockey going to the frozen four every year, football is struggling but hopefully moving forward WBB went to the dance 2 years ago while MBB struggles to stay above .500. Is it the administration? Coaches? Competition?

As Johnny said, money. In DII, UND had one of the biggest budgets and were competing against smaller schools (budget wise). If we want to compete, we need to start spending the same amount of money as some the "bigger schools" are at this level. I know UND's budget is one of the bigger ones at the FCS level, but take out M/W hockey and where do we stand?

[UND-FB-FAN]

Zero reason UND shouldn't be a perennial top 3rd of the conference team. Only UM, MSY, and EWU should really ever be in the way.

Time to drop sports and pursue actual excellence. Welcome to division 1.

Bubba's perennial expectation - which I agree with - is to win the Big Sky Conference. In doing so, UND may not win the conference, but they should at least finish second or third, which would result in a playoff bid. Basically, UND football should be a top 24 team every year and be in the playoffs every season.

It's more than doable and it should be the expectation; thankfully, it is.

[UND-FB-FAN]

Money.

It is a major factor, which is why I started this thread. UND needs to have more support for football and basketball, one way or another.

UND's coaching salaries are mediocre at best when you look at the Big Sky Conference counterparts.

In terms of football, UND thankfully got a really good coach at a home state discount, which is why the football program is moving forward. Still need to up salary for assistant coaches and potential contract extensions.

Basketball, on the other hand, is nowhere where it needs to be. Low-end salaries just within the Big Sky Conference; need improved salaries which should then be given to a new coach.

[The Sicatoka]

Why was UND dominant in basketball, football, and hockey at the same time in the 90's and early 2000's? Winning a national title in WBB and hockey in back to back months (1997) and football and hockey winning it in back to back years (hockey in 2000 and football in 01). Now you have hockey going to the frozen four every year, football is struggling but hopefully moving forward WBB went to the dance 2 years ago while MBB struggles to stay above .500. Is it the administration? Coaches? Competition?

That was a massive run:

Spring 1997: WBB and MIH

Spring 1998: WBB

Spring 1999: WBB

Spring 2000: MIH

Fall 2001: FB

That's six titles in a five year window. And that doesn't count the near misses in the window.

Those are some mighty and lofty expectations to set and meet.

[SiouxVolley]

Why was UND dominant in basketball, football, and hockey at the same time in the 90's and early 2000's? Winning a national title in WBB and hockey in back to back months (1997) and football and hockey winning it in back to back years (hockey in 2000 and football in 01). Now you have hockey going to the frozen four every year, football is struggling but hopefully moving forward WBB went to the dance 2 years ago while MBB struggles to stay above .500. Is it the administration? Coaches? Competition?

Wanless was a highly competent AD who hired great coaches and assistants and upgraded athletes across the board, emphasizing the academic side. He turned around Sac St's basketball and football programs after they were basket cases for years.

To bad Ralph didn't like him.

[darell1976]

Wanless was a highly competent AD who hired great coaches and assistants and upgraded athletes across the board, emphasizing the academic side. He turned around Sac St's basketball and football programs after they were basket cases for years.

To bad Ralph didn't like him.

After him we had Bunning (the worst AD) and now Faison who even though got us into the Big Sky hasn't made much (or any) noise since 2010.

[Irish]

Wanless was a highly competent AD who hired great coaches and assistants and upgraded athletes across the board, emphasizing the academic side. He turned around Sac St's basketball and football programs after they were basket cases for years.

To bad Ralph didn't like him.

Agreed - Bunning was a disaster and golden boy Roger Thomas wasn't much better.  

[bincitysioux]

I would argue that RT was far worse as Athletic Director than was Buning.  He (along with Kupchella) was the main factor in the delay in moving to DI, which hurt North Dakota immensely in the long run.  Then after successfully holding up the transition, he leaves.  No foresight whatsoever.  Great guy, great coach..........poor administrator.  For all the great things he did for this university as a coach, he possibly did it just as much harm as AD.

[UND92,96]

RT had his shortcomings as an AD, but I do have to give him credit for having the guts to actually conduct a search for his successor rather than simply promoting from the within, and thereby avoiding the necessity of the infamous "process" we've come to know and hate. Opening up the job to outside applicants when the program is already successful is becoming increasingly rare, thanks in large part to the aforementioned "process". Had it not been for that decision, who knows if UND would have won it all in 2001, and had all the other success it did from 1999 to 2007?

[BigGame]

UND92,96, I guess my perspective on him opening up the job is a little different than yours.  You have really completing a search and opening the job up or saying it's open but your boy essentially already has the job if he wants it.