The 2015-2016 NFL Mega-Thread

[darell1976]

I think you're over reacting because your team has been buried behind them for the better part of a decade. NE has won the division 11 of the last 12 seasons and 12 of the last 14. No wonder your bitter.

What kind of punishment do you think Miami deserves for their tampering with Suh?

No team is clean: www.yourteamcheats.com

I hate the Pats but if it was Peyton Manning deflating balls drop the hammer on him. Brady and Belicheat lied they knew nothing and Kraft demanding an apology from the NFL all 3 can be banned.

[jdub27]

I hate the Pats but if it was Peyton Manning deflating balls drop the hammer on him. Brady and Belicheat lied they knew nothing and Kraft demanding an apology from the NFL all 3 can be banned.

 

Belichek and Kraft had no knowledge of this incident.  And they can't even prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Brady did after spending 4 months investigating.  I'm not defending Brady (I believe he likely told the equipment official that he preferred the footballs less inflated but even that can't be proven) but again, you are blowing this out of proportion because of your hatred for NE continuously pounding Miami.   

 

What should Miami's punishment being for blatant violations of the tampering rules?

[MafiaMan]

Belichek and Kraft had no knowledge of this incident. And they can't even prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Brady did after spending 4 months investigating.

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" probably doesn't apply in the NFL courtroom. What's next, poor Tom Brady claiming he was being blackmailed by the ballboy? If Tom didn't pony up some autographs and nakey-nakey pictures of Gisele, he was going to get "rugby" balls on the field?

[darell1976]

Belichek and Kraft had no knowledge of this incident. And they can't even prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Brady did after spending 4 months investigating. I'm not defending Brady (I believe he likely told the equipment official that he preferred the footballs less inflated but even that can't be proven) but again, you are blowing this out of proportion because of your hatred for NE continuously pounding Miami.

What should Miami's punishment being for blatant violations of the tampering rules?

Maybe lose a draft pick and a fine like spygate. They didn't tamper with equipment during an important game like the AFC championship game then lie to everyone about it. Totally different situations.

[Blackheart]

I honestly could care less about all this deflate-gate crap.

[MafiaMan]

I honestly could care less about all this deflate-gate crap.

Well, I couldn't care less about how little you care.

[Fetch]

I careless than anyone 

[nosidel]

A lot of people try to cheat to get an advantage.  They will try things until they get caught, and get punished.  But the punishment has to fit the crime.  Deflating the football is probably on par with throwing spit balls.  Probably not as bad as corking a bat.  It was a minor advantage.  Spygate was equal to baseball teams stealing signs.  Neither is as important as you seem to think.

 

In light of the fact that the Patriots won the Super Bowl. What punishment could possibly fit this "crime", other than taking away their tainted Super Bowl win? We can't know how much the deflated balls helped them win the Super Bowl. But, as long as that Super Bowl victory stands they will have benefited -- if only in a small way -- from their cheating. IMO, there's just no other punishment that can deter the Pats, and other teams, from engaging in this sort of behavior. Taking away draft picks, suspending or fining players and coaches, and so on still leaves the team with the NFL's ultimate prize -- a Super Bowl ring.

[82SiouxGuy]

In light of the fact that the Patriots won the Super Bowl. What punishment could possibly fit this "crime", other than taking away their tainted Super Bowl win? We can't know how much the deflated balls helped them win the Super Bowl. But, as long as that Super Bowl victory stands they will have benefited -- if only in a small way -- from their cheating. IMO, there's just no other punishment that can deter the Pats, and other teams, from engaging in this sort of behavior. Taking away draft picks, suspending or fining players and coaches, and so on still leaves the team with the NFL's ultimate prize -- a Super Bowl ring.

Did a baseball team ever get a World Series title taken away because their pitchers were accused of throwing spit balls, or in any other way doctoring a baseball?  The answer is no.  As you said, there is no way to know how much the deflated balls affected the actual outcome.  Therefore you can't go back and negate any of the results.  That would be a gross imposition of a penalty.  Kind of like the death penalty for jaywalking.  The team will be fined and probably lose a lower level draft pick.  Brady himself may not be penalized since they don't seem to have definite proof that he was involved.  Taking away the Super Bowl title will not even be considered.

[cberkas]

Did a baseball team ever get a World Series title taken away because their pitchers were accused of throwing spit balls, or in any other way doctoring a baseball?  The answer is no.  As you said, there is no way to know how much the deflated balls affected the actual outcome.  Therefore you can't go back and negate any of the results.  That would be a gross imposition of a penalty.  Kind of like the death penalty for jaywalking.  The team will be fined and probably lose a lower level draft pick.  Brady himself may not be penalized since they don't seem to have definite proof that he was involved.  Taking away the Super Bowl title will not even be considered.

 

The "Black Sox Scandal" got 8 players on the Chicago White Sox banned from baseball after throwing the 1919 World Series. After what happened to the 1919 White Sox no one is dumb enough to cheat or throw a World Series game/series.

[jdub27]

I suppose Rodgers should be banned for a season too?  I mean, he admits to doing it (second hand) which is about as much concrete proof as they have on Brady did. 

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/aaron-rodgers-phil-simms-overinflates-footballs/253090

 

(For the record, I think that Brady had some knowledge of it, no clue to what extent, but the equipment managers knew he preferred less inflated footballs and like any equipment guy, tried to make the player happy.  I also don't care, teams are always stretching the rules.  I don't consider the PSI of a ball to be any worse than non-stick spray on a football jersey or stick-em on WR gloves).

[Blackheart]

Well, I couldn't care less about how little you care.

C'mon Mafia, just having a little fun.

[The Sicatoka]

I know how to solve all this. Eliminate the air from the ball, then shrink it say down to a disk about three inches in diameter and about an inch thick. Maybe vulcanize it to toughen it. 

[82SiouxGuy]

The "Black Sox Scandal" got 8 players on the Chicago White Sox banned from baseball after throwing the 1919 World Series. After what happened to the 1919 White Sox no one is dumb enough to cheat or throw a World Series game/series.

They had a huge amount of proof, including confessions, to prove that the players were throwing games.  In this case they have some evidence that Brady might have been aware.  The main people that were guilty in this case were low level staff, and there is still no hard evidence that the actions had any real effects on the game results.  Talk about comparing apples and oranges.

[bincitysioux]

As a dyed in the wool, life long New England fan, I am loving this.

[Blackheart]

My 10 year old asked me if the deflate gate was like having too much pine tar on your bat? I think he's pretty close.

[cberkas]

My 10 year old asked me if the deflate gate was like having too much pine tar on your bat? I think he's pretty close.

 

There is a comparison to the "Pine Tar Game".

[MafiaMan]

There is a comparison to the "Pine Tar Game".

Home run disallowed. George Brett ejected from game.

[cberkas]

Home run disallowed. George Brett ejected from game.

 

Then game replayed, from Brett's home run.

[MafiaMan]

Then game replayed, from Brett's home run.

I think that New England's punishment should be to replay the last 30 seconds or so of the Super Bowl. Let's see if Pete Carroll could screw up the play-calling again.

[Blackheart]

I think that New England's punishment should be to replay the last 30 seconds or so of the Super Bowl. Let's see if Pete Carroll could screw up the play-calling again.

Carroll would out-think everybody and call that same horrible pass play again.

[nosidel]

Did a baseball team ever get a World Series title taken away because their pitchers were accused of throwing spit balls, or in any other way doctoring a baseball?  The answer is no.  As you said, there is no way to know how much the deflated balls affected the actual outcome.  Therefore you can't go back and negate any of the results.  That would be a gross imposition of a penalty.  Kind of like the death penalty for jaywalking.  The team will be fined and probably lose a lower level draft pick.  Brady himself may not be penalized since they don't seem to have definite proof that he was involved.  Taking away the Super Bowl title will not even be considered.

 

In baseball, there are penalties for throwing spitballs. If a pitcher is caught throwing a spitball, those penalties will be enforced without regard to any effect that the spitball might actually have had on the game. For instance, If a pitcher is caught throwing a spitball and the batter hits a grand slam home run on that pitch, the pitcher is ejected and suspended anyway. And the team at bat gets to choose whether to keep the Grand Slam.

 

The difference here is that New England WAS caught using deflated balls during the game, and yet no penalty was enforced at the time. So, whatever effect the cheating may have had on the game has been allowed to stand. Unfortunately, New England went on to win the Superbowl, which they could not have done had they not won the game in which they were caught cheating. So, we are now left with a situation that simply cannot be remedied short of taking away the SB win. Any other penalty will leave New England having benefitted from its cheating. 

 

I don't expect that the NFL will take away the SB win, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't.

[82SiouxGuy]

In baseball, there are penalties for throwing spitballs. If a pitcher is caught throwing a spitball, those penalties will be enforced without regard to any effect that the spitball might actually have had on the game. For instance, If a pitcher is caught throwing a spitball and the batter hits a grand slam home run on that pitch, the pitcher is ejected and suspended anyway. And the team at bat gets to choose whether to keep the Grand Slam.

 

The difference here is that New England WAS caught using deflated balls during the game, and yet no penalty was enforced at the time. So, whatever effect the cheating may have had on the game has been allowed to stand. Unfortunately, New England went on to win the Superbowl, which they could not have done had they not won the game in which they were caught cheating. So, we are now left with a situation that simply cannot be remedied short of taking away the SB win. Any other penalty will leave New England having benefitted from its cheating. 

 

I don't expect that the NFL will take away the SB win, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't.

The NFL had a situation during a Viking game last year where both teams were heating the footballs.  This is against the same part of the rule book as the inflation level of footballs.  In the Vikings game the officials told both teams to stop doing it because the footballs are supposed to be left in the conditions other than being covered from moisture.  They didn't have any other penalties for either team, probably since both teams were doing the same thing. 

 

The officials figured out that there was a problem during the New England game.  They could have made an effort to fix the problem then, and could have penalized the Patriots during the game.  They didn't.  No one knows whether the deflated footballs actually affected the results of the game.  If the "advantage" didn't affect the results of the game they shouldn't take the game away from the team.  Therefore they can't take the Super Bowl away from them either.  You can't retroactively change the results of the games unless something very radical happens, like multiple players throwing games.

[fightingsioux4life]

C'mon Mafia, just having a little fun.

MafiaMan is the only person I have seen that is crabbier than usual on Fridays.

[nosidel]

The NFL had a situation during a Viking game last year where both teams were heating the footballs.  This is against the same part of the rule book as the inflation level of footballs.  In the Vikings game the officials told both teams to stop doing it because the footballs are supposed to be left in the conditions other than being covered from moisture.  They didn't have any other penalties for either team, probably since both teams were doing the same thing. 

 

The officials figured out that there was a problem during the New England game.  They could have made an effort to fix the problem then, and could have penalized the Patriots during the game.  They didn't.  No one knows whether the deflated footballs actually affected the results of the game.  If the "advantage" didn't affect the results of the game they shouldn't take the game away from the team.  Therefore they can't take the Super Bowl away from them either.  You can't retroactively change the results of the games unless something very radical happens, like multiple players throwing games.

 

Of course it can't be proven that the deflated balls affected the outcome of the game, but it can't be proven that they didn't either. Seemingly small changes in initial conditions can have a surprisingly large effect on results. Ask yourself this: if deflating the footballs is/was an insignificant factor in the outcome of the game why would anyone do it?

 

The case of the Vikings game you mention is different because there was no intent to benefit either team at the expense of the other. Both teams wanted the footballs heated and were apparently unaware of the rules.   

 

IMO, there's no way to restore integrity to the outcome of the AFC championship game, and the Super Bowl, other than vacating the Patriot's championship. It's tainted forever.