Big Sky Athlete Stipends

[fightingsioux4life]

There are more than 8 hours in a day.

And there are more than a few coaches that will pressure their players to not get jobs during the summer so they can focus entirely on lifting weights, ect.  With the thinly veiled implication that starting jobs may be at stake depending upon their decision.

 

Being a college athlete is a 12 month endeavor today.  And that is not necessarily a good thing.

[Siouxperfan7]

At the P5 school level, the season isn't over in the summer.   At most P5 universities there are player led two a days and film studies that go on all summer long in addition to "optional" off-season workouts.  These are optional in name only as the coaches definitely know who is and is not in attendance.  This does not leave time for a job in the off-season, other than "no-show" jobs provided by boosters which is one of the underneath the table ways these athletes are being compensated right now.

 

It sucks for the students who's working two jobs to pay for school, but the fact of the matter is that someone is going to compensate that student-athlete for his efforts.  This is just the NCAA finally admitting that they'd prefer it be the universities themselves as opposed to the Nevin Shapiro's and Luther Vandrosses of the world.  

 

2 a days all summer long?  Who does that.  Sure there is off season workouts, film studies, etc.  But you are telling me that they don't have time to have a summer job?  Please. 

[dlsiouxfan]

2 a days all summer long?  Who does that.  Sure there is off season workouts, film studies, etc.  But you are telling me that they don't have time to have a summer job?  Please. 

 

Pretty much the entire SEC, Big 12, and PAC 12.  Ohio State as well.  It's not padded and it's run by the players themselves but they are happening and make no mistake about it they are not "optional".

[Siouxperfan7]

And there are more than a few coaches that will pressure their players to not get jobs during the summer so they can focus entirely on lifting weights, ect.  With the thinly veiled implication that starting jobs may be at stake depending upon their decision.

 

Being a college athlete is a 12 month endeavor today.  And that is not necessarily a good thing.

 

I agree being a student athelete is a 365 day comitment.  But it is not a 24/7 365 all the time.  Atheletes don't work out all day every day.  I am no strength conditioning expert by any means, but I am pretty sure that is not good for your body.  My point is that these kids have plenty of time to earn extra money if they want as opposed to be given money just because they feel like they earn it.  Welcome to life as a college student.  You don;t have a lot of money.  But when you are out of college than hopefully you will.  No reason that schools need to paying these guys extra money so they can get their Beats by Dre headphones because they don't want to get a job to be able to buy it themselves.

[Player21]

And there are more than a few coaches that will pressure their players to not get jobs during the summer so they can focus entirely on lifting weights, ect.  With the thinly veiled implication that starting jobs may be at stake depending upon their decision.

 

Being a college athlete is a 12 month endeavor today.  And that is not necessarily a good thing.

When I played we had a coach in charge of listing job openings for guys in town working out with the team.  Jobs aren't looked very highly upon while school is in session, but during the summer it was encouraged when I was in town.  The only organized activities in the summer is lifting, I believe other than the weight staff, the other coaches have limits as to how much time can even be spent with the athletes.  Long story short, pretty much everyone who was in town had a job or took summer classes, some even did both.

[fightingsioux4life]

I agree being a student athelete is a 365 day comitment.  But it is not a 24/7 365 all the time.  Atheletes don't work out all day every day.  I am no strength conditioning expert by any means, but I am pretty sure that is not good for your body.  My point is that these kids have plenty of time to earn extra money if they want as opposed to be given money just because they feel like they earn it.  Welcome to life as a college student.  You don;t have a lot of money.  But when you are out of college than hopefully you will.  No reason that schools need to paying these guys extra money so they can get their Beats by Dre headphones because they don't want to get a job to be able to buy it themselves.

You totally ignored the important point in my post: "there are more than a few coaches that will pressure their players to not get jobs during the summer so they can focus entirely on lifting weights, ect.  With the thinly veiled implication that starting jobs may be at stake depending upon their decision."  And please don't try and tell me that "They wouldn't do that" because they definitely would, especially if they were on the hot seat and needed a big season to keep their job.  Coaches are kings of their particular castles and they can and will determine roster spots however they want.  No athlete is going to risk his roster spot and/or starting spot to make a little extra spending money.

 

Welcome to life as a student-athlete.

[fightingsioux4life]

When I played we had a coach in charge of listing job openings for guys in town working out with the team.  Jobs aren't looked very highly upon while school is in session, but during the summer it was encouraged when I was in town.  The only organized activities in the summer is lifting, I believe other than the weight staff, the other coaches have limits as to how much time can even be spent with the athletes.  Long story short, pretty much everyone who was in town had a job or took summer classes, some even did both.

And when was this?  Any time recently?  I have a hard time believing that what you said happens at big-time FBS schools, but I suppose it's possible at the FCS level and lower.  College sports has become year-round not for the benefit of the athletes, but of the people that make money off of them (TV networks, athletic departments, the NCAA).  It's time to start reigning some of this stuff in.  And if that ticks off the NFL, too bad.  They can use some of their billions to start their own developmental league like the NBA did.

[bincitysioux]

I know that the information is really limited and cloudy right now but I wish there would have been more to that article. Not even sure what but it seemed lacking. Maybe throwing out some current UND budget numbers or something. Though with the subsidy stuff, probably not the direction to go either. I am at least glad that they are writing about it. It is going to be an absolutely massive issue and I know UND is looking at every possible way so that they are able to stay competitive.

FCS is currently the biggest domino and there are a lot more have-nots than haves at this point and that could play a very instrumental part in what happens.

I think the most important number from that article is the fact that UND is apparently playing with 2 more scholarships than FCS allows! What a scandal! Kudos to the Herald for digging up that juicy nugget.....

[jdub27]

But I've been wrong before and I'll likely be wrong many times in the future. I will say that if FGIA are disallowed by the FCS, you're going to see another mass movement of top FCS schools moving to the FBS. And NDSU will be at the front of the group. We've spent the last decade becoming an G5 school in all but name; being restricted to regular GIA levels would be a giant step backwards.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Possible but with the conference invite needed and whatever new "rule" they can come up with in the way, it will definitely lead to turbulent waters.

[jdub27]

I think the most important number from that article is the fact that UND is apparently playing with 2 more scholarships than FCS allows! What a scandal! Kudos to the Herald for digging up that juicy nugget.....

Didn't even catch that, nice. 

[Hammersmith]

Holy mother of god. I looked up UND's current COA adjustment. This is the amount that sets the upper limit of the scholarship. The number that's thrown around most often is $3500. It varies from college to college, and each school is required to put it somewhere on its website. UND's was hidden pretty deep. (I'm not saying UND is trying to hide it for some reason, just that it's not as easy to find as most schools). I looked up a handful of schools this weekend for a discussion on AGS. NDSU was $3400, UNI was $2300, Lehigh was $2100, Texas was $4300. UND gives a number of $5800. That's insane. It means UND would be able to spend an additional $365,400 in football scholarships. That probably works out to about 20 additional scholarships. UND is ending up gaming the system before there was a system to game.

 

(that wasn't an attack btw, more of a sardonic quip)

[iluvdebbies]

I think the most important number from that article is the fact that UND is apparently playing with 2 more scholarships than FCS allows! What a scandal! Kudos to the Herald for digging up that juicy nugget.....

Schollygate.

[Player21]

And when was this?  Any time recently?  I have a hard time believing that what you said happens at big-time FBS schools, but I suppose it's possible at the FCS level and lower.  College sports has become year-round not for the benefit of the athletes, but of the people that make money off of them (TV networks, athletic departments, the NCAA).  It's time to start reigning some of this stuff in.  And if that ticks off the NFL, too bad.  They can use some of their billions to start their own developmental league like the NBA did.

My senior year was 2009.  And I thought the discussion was about how the stipends will impact things at UND.  I don't have experience at the FBS level so you may be right, they may require more out of their guys at the FBS level, but at UND, which I'm sure is pretty similar around the FCS, athlete's lift for a couple hours a day then are encouraged to work or take classes.  Once a week we would also get together and do some 7 on 7 but that was it.  I do have a friend that played FBS and I remember him either taking classes or working a part time job during the summers if that helps with what happens at the FBS level.....

[dlsiouxfan]

Holy mother of god. I looked up UND's current COA adjustment. This is the amount that sets the upper limit of the scholarship. The number that's thrown around most often is $3500. It varies from college to college, and each school is required to put it somewhere on its website. UND's was hidden pretty deep. (I'm not saying UND is trying to hide it for some reason, just that it's not as easy to find as most schools). I looked up a handful of schools this weekend for a discussion on AGS. NDSU was $3400, UNI was $2300, Lehigh was $2100, Texas was $4300. UND gives a number of $5800. That's insane. It means UND would be able to spend an additional $365,400 in football scholarships. That probably works out to about 20 additional scholarships. UND is ending up gaming the system before there was a system to game.

 

(that wasn't an attack btw, more of a sardonic quip)

 

I'm sure there isn't a way to determine this but is the aviaition school skewing that number?  I know they pay a ton of flight costs and other expenses over and above tuition that really no other major has. 

[Hammersmith]

I'm sure there isn't a way to determine this but is the aviaition school skewing that number?  I know they pay a ton of flight costs and other expenses over and above tuition that really no other major has. 

Nope. That's a separate number. The cost estimator asks if you are applying in one of the special-fee majors. And those fees are given on a different line anyway. The line I'm referring to is listed as "Personal Living Expenses". It does not include tuition, fees, room, board, and books.

[dlsiouxfan]

My senior year was 2009.  And I thought the discussion was about how the stipends will impact things at UND.  I don't have experience at the FBS level so you may be right, they may require more out of their guys at the FBS level, but at UND, which I'm sure is pretty similar around the FCS, athlete's lift for a couple hours a day then are encouraged to work or take classes.  Once a week we would also get together and do some 7 on 7 but that was it.  I do have a friend that played FBS and I remember him either taking classes or working a part time job during the summers if that helps with what happens at the FBS level.....

 

I spoke with one of my former coaches at UND a few years ago and we started talking about a coaches clinic that he had attended that summer at an SEC school.  During his downtime he toured the stadium with one of the assistants from that program and he couldn't help but notice what was essentially a full practice going on inside the stadium.  He asked the coach about how they were doing this with NCAA rules on practice time. 

 

The coach told him that the practice was player led and if a few of the seniors ask for practice scripts on the last day of spring ball there is no rule that prevents the coaching staff from providing them a few.   The coaches can't watch the practice while it's happening or supervise in any way, but the cameras in the press box and around the stadium run 24/7 for security reasons so there is film of the practice and there isn't any rule against someone watching that film later on. 

 

He also asked if any of the players had to miss these practice for summer jobs and the coach just said "This is there job".  

[Player21]

I spoke with one of my former coaches at UND a few years ago and we started talking about a coaches clinic that he had attended that summer at an SEC school.  During his downtime he toured the stadium with one of the assistants from that program and he couldn't help but notice what was essentially a full practice going on inside the stadium.  He asked the coach about how they were doing this with NCAA rules on practice time. 

 

The coach told him that the practice was player led and if a few of the seniors ask for practice scripts on the last day of spring ball there is no rule that prevents the coaching staff from providing them a few.   The coaches can't watch the practice while it's happening or supervise in any way, but the cameras in the press box and around the stadium run 24/7 for security reasons so there is film of the practice and there isn't any rule against someone watching that film later on. 

 

He also asked if any of the players had to miss these practice for summer jobs and the coach just said "This is there job".  

We got similar call sheets for our 7 on 7 time during the summer.  The QB's would get them during spring ball just like you said, but it never got to the point where we had full practices like that.  Interesting that if it is that organized that the managers wouldn't also "volunteer" their time to film it instead of having to watch it from the security cameras.  Good insight there, again I have no experience personally with FBS, and we never had anything close to that while I was playing.

[the green team]

Just some additional insight regarding student-athletes, getting summer work.  Let's say a business I know of in town, was going to hire a couple of basketball players a couple of summers ago.  They wanted those players to work 7am to 2pm, primarily Monday through Friday.   What happened was that basketball players couldn't do that shift because of strength and conditioning on a fair amount of  those weekday mornings.   So then the idea was to have them do the 2 to 8 shift on those days, and now with college basketball the players can be coached 2 or 3 times a week in skills sessions with a coach and a group of 4.  That was scheduled in the afternoons.  Plus they had team pick up games X amount of times per week that were "strongly" suggested.   So as the business- they had to go with someone other than the athletes because the other job candidates (non-athletes) could be available during those shifts.  Those are common obstacles for today's student athletes getting summer work and potential employers who are looking to fill those jobs in the summer. Not saying it can't happen, but it certainly challenging in today's day and age.

[the green team]

Another interesting thing comes to mind regarding this stipend issue for me, is this final bullet that the Portland State administration uses as the reason to axe football?   It's barely hanging on as it is.  This might just be the final straw for them to say we don't need the headache of football anymore.    Especially, if some Big Sky schools do indeed choose to go to a stipend.

[ndsubison1]

What about the kid who is working 2 jobs while trying to pay for his school, books, room and board, etc and down the hall the starting running back for the football team doen't have to pay for any of those because it is covered under scholorship. I get it that football demands are high and these kids don't have time for a part time job as well as going to class. But they are getting their education paid. And its not like the season lasts all year. Can't these kids get jobs in the summer like every other college kid does? So their scholorships might not cover books other stuff. Get a job in the summer to cover the couple hundred bucks you need to have for that.

The NCAA and TV networks aren't making money off of non students athletes. They aren't brining more exposure to their schools. Some of the athletes do work in the summer and between spring ball and fall camp is really the only time they have enough time to work. At least for Division 1 and probably even some lower levels.

[Siouxperfan7]

So what is interesting in this whole debate is where was this argument 10 years ago or the many years before that?  Only when Universities started signing these monster TV deals and making boatloads of money from displaying their college athletic teams did students atheletes feel they needed a cut.  Where were the complaints years ago from student athelets who were struggling financially to pay for ":other costs" at school?  These students are not employees of the University.  They don;t have stock in the University.  They are now owed anymore money simply because the University is brining in more money due to athletics. 

[Cratter]

Is it a bad thing if the rich and powerful use their money to get more rich and powerful? These big time programs can only pay there coach so much. Some are already are on par with the NFL. They can only build so many stadium upgrades. Its good they are giving back to the athletes they are making so much money off of.

Its bad for the small guy. The small guy doesnt need to buy a ferrari if he cant afford it. I think the FCS should vote a no for the stipend.

[Cratter]

So what is interesting in this whole debate is where was this argument 10 years ago or the many years before that?  Only when Universities started signing these monster TV deals and making boatloads of money from displaying their college athletic teams did students atheletes feel they needed a cut.  Where were the complaints years ago from student athelets who were struggling financially to pay for ":other costs" at school?  These students are not employees of the University.  They don;t have stock in the University.  They are now owed anymore money simply because the University is brining in more money due to athletics.

The schools voted for it not some ncaa players association.

[dlsiouxfan]

So what is interesting in this whole debate is where was this argument 10 years ago or the many years before that?  Only when Universities started signing these monster TV deals and making boatloads of money from displaying their college athletic teams did students atheletes feel they needed a cut.  Where were the complaints years ago from student athelets who were struggling financially to pay for ":other costs" at school?  These students are not employees of the University.  They don;t have stock in the University.  They are now owed anymore money simply because the University is brining in more money due to athletics. 

 

So this huge pot of money is being created by student athletes in FB and MBB which is largely being spent on coach and administrator salaries, facility improvements, and subsidization of athletic opportunities for generally more affluent student athletes (i.e.  lacrosse, rowing, skiing, insert other Olympic sport here) and you have issues with a larger share of the pot going back to the athletes generating it?  Is it really that greedy that these athletes would like to be compensated at their market value?  Especially in football where we know a not insignificant share of the athletes will face debilitating conditions later on in life as a result of injuries suffered during their playing days? 

[Siouxperfan7]

So this huge pot of money is being created by student athletes in FB and MBB which is largely being spent on coach and administrator salaries, facility improvements, and subsidization of athletic opportunities for generally more affluent student athletes (i.e.  lacrosse, rowing, skiing, insert other Olympic sport here) and you have issues with a larger share of the pot going back to the athletes generating it?  Is it really that greedy that these athletes would like to be compensated at their market value?  Especially in football where we know a not insignificant share of the athletes will face debilitating conditions later on in life as a result of injuries suffered during their playing days? 

 

Again, the students are not employees of the University.  They aren't buying stock in the program so when the school succeeds financially, they do as well.  They are given a free education.  More than enough compensation considering how much college tuition is these days.  I get your point that the student atheletes are the ones playing on the teams that generate this revenue, but that is my point.  The team is generating the revenue, not the player.  Buckeye Stadium will sellout next year and many years down the road regardless of the players they have playing for them.  The school makes money off the team, so they should be obligated to compensate the team for revenue produced.  Not individual players.