bison73 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 My favorite quote from Bisonville the last day: "If UND somehow manages to beat us, that's going to wipe out the accomplishments of our last decade!" #thepowerofUND Yes we have delusional people who post there as well.
bison73 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 the reason why the bar kept moving on these games being played was that the ndac/gt/teammakers did not want this game at any price at any venue ever? yet something changed and by the demeanor of the ndac officials at the press conference it seems like it was out of their hands...like they know something but can't tell the fans of the ndac?? something doesn't add up here? Your grasping air here. Many many TM wanted the game. Contracts were offered. Timelines and the playing field changed. GT put the latest contract on the table and it was accepted.
Oxbow6 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 You and I agree to disagree then if you think that UND would be losing sleep over a mid-season non-conference loss to NDSU in a year that saw the team go on to win its first FBS national championship. The rings wouldn't need an asterisk. I'd take your hypothetical scenario next year or in '19 in a second.
82SiouxGuy Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 You and I agree to disagree then if you think that UND would be losing sleep over a mid-season non-conference loss to NDSU in a year that saw the team go on to win its first FBS national championship. The rings wouldn't need an asterisk. Nice attempt to mistate everything I have said. My point is that a lot of people look at the individual games as separate events. You can have individual feelings about the individual games, a lot of people do. Winning the 2nd game, even if it is the national title game, doesn't eliminate the bad feelings about losing a rivalry game during the season, although it can make it easier to take. If UND and NDSU were still playing for the Nickel Trophy and NDSU won the Nickel while UND beat them for the national title, UND fans would be very happy about winning the national title, but losing the Nickel would still bother a lot of them. It would be like winning the war, but losing a key battle along the way. And you are the only one that needs to bring an asterisk into the discussion.
MafiaMan Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Well of course there's disappointment over losing a big game. Tell me, though, are any of NDSU's 3 national titles in FCS somehow tainted because of a regular season loss? Nobody in the locker room after a national title game win is feeling any heartbreak over losing a rivalry game held earlier in the season. Edited because of my chubby fingers typing B instead of C.
Redneksioux Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Well of course there's disappointment over losing a big game. Tell me, though, are any of NDSU's 3 national titles in FBS somehow tainted because of a regular season loss? Nobody in the locker room after a national title game win is feeling any heartbreak over losing a rivalry game held earlier in the season. I think to most people their fbs regular season wins are bigger than their fcs titles. Gameday went to Fargo before their 3peat and after their win at Kansas st right?
82SiouxGuy Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Well of course there's disappointment over losing a big game. Tell me, though, are any of NDSU's 3 national titles in FBS somehow tainted because of a regular season loss? Nobody in the locker room after a national title game win is feeling any heartbreak over losing a rivalry game held earlier in the season. If NDSU had ever won a national title in FBS, that might be something different. They play in FCS just like UND. They have beat FBS teams, but don't compete for FBS titles. Does NDSU have a true rival that they've been playing the past 3 years? They have a manufactured rival in SDSU, and have developed a little bit of a rivalry with UNI, but neither of those match up to the rivalry with UND. They don't have the history attached to a long term rivalry. Rivalry games are different than big games. And I'm not talking about the feeling in the lockerroom immediately after a title game. This discussion has been about fans, not the team. And the emotions or feelings long term are different from the immediate rush of feelings that happen right after a win. Emotions 3 months, 6 months or 10 years after the end of the title game will be different than what they are when the final whistle blows. But that is another nice effort to change the discussion. 1
MafiaMan Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 If NDSU had ever won a national title in FBS, that might be something different. They play in FCS just like UND. They have beat FBS teams, but don't compete for FBS titles. I'm fully aware of the divisions of college football - the FBS/FCS error in my post was the result of my lack of concentration.
bison73 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I think to most people their fbs regular season wins are bigger than their fcs titles. Gameday went to Fargo before their 3peat and after their win at Kansas st right? I think the importance of the FBS win depends on who the school is and how good that school is. Back in the old days a loss to UND would sting and hurt but in no way would it deminish a National Championship. Now a days with the current players not knowing what the rivalry is all about a UND loss wouldnt really hang with them very much at all. It will take some time for the meaning of this contest to anchor itself in the consciousness of the players.
MafiaMan Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 If NDSU had ever won a national title in FBS, that might be something different. They play in FCS just like UND. They have beat FBS teams, but don't compete for FBS titles. Does NDSU have a true rival that they've been playing the past 3 years? They have a manufactured rival in SDSU, and have developed a little bit of a rivalry with UNI, but neither of those match up to the rivalry with UND. They don't have the history attached to a long term rivalry. Rivalry games are different than big games. And I'm not talking about the feeling in the lockerroom immediately after a title game. This discussion has been about fans, not the team. And the emotions or feelings long term are different from the immediate rush of feelings that happen right after a win. Emotions 3 months, 6 months or 10 years after the end of the title game will be different than what they are when the final whistle blows. But that is another nice effort to change the discussion. A "manufactured rival" in South Dakota State University? You realize that they have played each other 101 times since 1903, right? And now you're telling me the FANS would be upset at a UND national title that included a regular season loss to NDSU?
MafiaMan Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I think to most people their fbs regular season wins are bigger than their fcs titles. Gameday went to Fargo before their 3peat and after their win at Kansas st right? That win over a FBS school was so huge that you've already forgotten who it was against...and Gameday came to Fargo based on the cumulative results of their past 2+ seasons.
82SiouxGuy Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 A "manufactured rival" in South Dakota State University? You realize that they have played each other 101 times since 1903, right? And now you're telling me the FANS would be upset at a UND national title that included a regular season loss to NDSU? I never said that anyone would be upset at a UND national title. Yet again you make things up. The title would be a separate event from a regular season loss to NDSU. The fans would be happy about the national title, and still can be upset about losing to NDSU. Two separate events, 2 separate emotions. It isn't all or nothing. Playing a team over a long time doesn't automatically make them rivals. UND played Augustana more than 60 times starting in 1942, were they a rival? UND played Morningside more than 65 times starting in 1925, were they a rival? UND played SDSU more than 80 times since 1906, were they a rival for UND? My answer is no to all 3. UND and USD were closer to rivals, but I don't think that most people ever considered them real rivals for UND. NDSU and SDSU were conference mates, but weren't heated rivals. When they both lost their rival, they created a trophy and "manufactured" a rivalry. As another example, Northwestern has played the University of Minnesota 89 times since 1892. Does anyone consider them rivals? They belong to the same conference, they aren't rivals. 1
bison73 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I never said that anyone would be upset at a UND national title. Yet again you make things up. The title would be a separate event from a regular season loss to NDSU. The fans would be happy about the national title, and still can be upset about losing to NDSU. Two separate events, 2 separate emotions. It isn't all or nothing. Playing a team over a long time doesn't automatically make them rivals. UND played Augustana more than 60 times starting in 1942, were they a rival? UND played Morningside more than 65 times starting in 1925, were they a rival? UND played SDSU more than 80 times since 1906, were they a rival for UND? My answer is no to all 3. UND and USD were closer to rivals, but I don't think that most people ever considered them real rivals for UND. NDSU and SDSU were conference mates, but weren't heated rivals. When they both lost their rival, they created a trophy and "manufactured" a rivalry. As another example, Northwestern has played the University of Minnesota 89 times since 1892. Does anyone consider them rivals? They belong to the same conference, they aren't rivals. SDSU was "just another game" when I played. When we stopped playing each other--yes-- they manufactured a rivalry and hyped the game with a trophy.
GeauxSioux Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 My view from 2000 miles away... When I first read that UND agreed to two games in Fargo, I thought the UND athletic department made a mistake. I didn't think they should capitulate and should wait until the terms were more even. I have changed my mind. It obviously has impacted UND in a positive way and NDSU in a negative. It has created a positive buzz for UND. Why did the NDSU big wigs look like someone peed in their Wheaties at the press conference? It "appears" that there were some big time supporters that weren't pleased with NDSU making this deal. They tried to distance themselves from the agreement at the press conference. It wasn't us, uh, it was Taylor who put it together and it was just to fill a slot in 2015. There was no excitement about the game or what it means to the state of North Dakota. There were NDSU folks who thought that they had created separation between them and UND and this agreement killed that. UND doesn't even have to win the game next year. Separation real or imagined is gone. All because a bunch of guys playing golf said lets get a deal done. 2
Hayduke Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 GeauxSioux, good points. I Agree. From my view it also seems that it is creating a positive buzz for UND football. I wanted the home and home also, but maybe this will help win or lose the game(s).
fightingsioux4life Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Thank you Brian Faison. Thanks to you caving in, every single game with FU will be held in the Not-So Fabulous Fargodome from now on (unless we end up in the same conference again). You can mark it down right now, it's been decided. UND continues to bow down and kiss the grits of FU and all their media lackeys in Imperial Cass County. We are treating them like an FBS program. While they believe they are FBS in their own minds, they are not FBS in our world. But we are genuflecting to them anyway. Being somebody's plaything won't get you respect, but that is what we are doing here. I hope I am wrong, but I think this is a sad day for UND. 4
fightingsioux4life Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I keep reading about the "respect" UND deserves...NDSU is the 3 time defending NC and UND is coming off a stellar 3 win season. Earning respect has to start somewhere, it isn't just given...2015 is that chance. So that means we just cave in and do what they tell us? NDSU is NOT an FBS program and yet, we are treating them like they are. And no, we shouldn't have to "earn" the respect we should have as a long-time rival with NDSU and as one of two four-year research institutions in the state. This whole sorry episode proves how much contempt FU has for UND. And we just bend over and take it? Thanks a lot Faison.
zonadub Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I said the very same thing nut Southpaw wants to run this board and won't put up with that kind of talk. He says he doesn't want speculation. As if sports message board are all speculation. That's why people visit them. Bresciani has to postion NDSU to be in good graces with the Big Sky. The Big Sky won't put up with an AD who has it in for one of its schools. NDSU had to do an about face to go FBS with the Big Sky. NDSU doesn't want to saddle the next AD with having to make up to UND. This is the only opening as they start interviewing AD candidates next week and NDSU doesn't want this brought up to the candidates. If NDSU gets in the Big Sky, the league will schedule NDSU in Grand Forks in 2017 or 2018 and NDSU will still have to pay UND for the 2019 FargoDome that they normally would have got for free. Really disappointed in how this re-scheduling turned out, unless SiouxVolley is correct. His posts on this, while out-of-the-box, seem to be reasonably predictive and could explain why Faison allowed this to happen. The fly in the ointment, so to speak, would be that NDSU would be aligned as one of UND's rivals and be scheduled every year anyway.
fightingsioux4life Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 This is very disappointing. I am fine with playing FU again. But to agree to two consecutive games in Fargo is ridiculous. What's next? A splash page at UND's website proclaiming NDSU as the top university in North Dakota? Might as well play all the other sports in Fargo too I guess. What a slap in the face to the Grand Forks community and UND Alumni. Or they demand that we get off the airwaves in Fargo because it's "their turf".
zonadub Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 ... every single game with FU will be held in the Not-So Fabulous Fargodome from now on ... Just don't see this happening.
MafiaMan Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 So that means we just cave in and do what they tell us? NDSU is NOT an FBS program and yet, we are treating them like they are. And no, we shouldn't have to "earn" the respect we should have as a long-time rival with NDSU and as one of two four-year research institutions in the state. This whole sorry episode proves how much contempt FU has for UND. And we just bend over and take it? Thanks a lot Faison. As much as I don't like it, NDSU had handled this like a boss. They have ignored UND to the point that UND has practically become irrelevant. Brilliant move, in my opinion. UND jumps up and down ranting and raving "Play us! Play us! We're FCS!" and NDSU replies back "meh." Then, just to tweak UND some more, NDSU schedules the series with Weber State - and UND (the fans here in particular) predictably blows a head gasket. Bubba seems smart enough to know that the only way to fix the Muss-mess is to take on Goliath - on whatever terms - and defeat him.
Irish Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 So that means we just cave in and do what they tell us? NDSU is NOT an FBS program and yet, we are treating them like they are. And no, we shouldn't have to "earn" the respect we should have as a long-time rival with NDSU and as one of two four-year research institutions in the state. This whole sorry episode proves how much contempt FU has for UND. And we just bend over and take it? Thanks a lot Faison. Couldn't agree more - pathetic groveling on UND's part - but hey, we were willing to put up with 7 years of Muss, so we must have an incredible tolerence for pain - maybe if we just tried to relax ... 1
UNDvince97-01 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Leave the thinking and decisions to the good ole boys We are not happy we weren't involved in this decision These are supposed to be ran by us What are you talking about? Will you please stop? I agree with homer - intentional or not, you sound like an idiot.
darell1976 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 So we have UND fans pissed that there is no return game in Grand Forks. We have NDSU fans pissed that they are playing a lower level team (even though they are playing Weber State). If UND goes to Fargo next year and wins, NDSU fans will be very pissed, because they know UND is catching up to them in football and that has to be a big fear in them because of recruiting. As of now NDSU can out-recruit UND easily by flashing that NC ring at them. But if NDSU falls this year, add UND beating them next year and recruits won't automatically choose NDSU. (UND has out recruited them in the past and just needs something to kickstart that again) If Bison fans think they can stay at the top forever...just look at App State and Montana, even the biggest teams fall. Coaching is a big part of winning, UND hasn't had that since 2007, and NDSU had a bad coach in Babich in their recent history. Both coaches are 0-0 in DI head coaching, NDSU currently has better players than UND, but, UND is getting a lot of recruits that Bubba wants. So if fans (mostly NDSU) think this game will be an 80-0, sure if it was 2013...2015 may tell a whole new story. 1
MafiaMan Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 The Weber State comparison is getting old. 2013: Sac State: 43-6 over Weber, 31-7 over UND Eastern Washington: 41-19 over Weber, 35-14 over UND Portland State: 45-24 over Weber, 14-10 over UND Montana: 42-6 over Weber, 55-17 over UND Montana State: 34-16 over Weber, 63-20 over UND Utah at least has some mountains to visit while on the trip...
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