Herd Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 A few points: -UND has already beat those schools for recruits, this year and in the past. By no means every battle, but with how UND has performed the past few years and the lack of emphasis that was put on those states, more than they should have. Why is it going to change all of the sudden to no recruits? -The Summit has been up the last few years, but they have historically been the same. Not sure where your confidence of them remaining where they currently are forever comes from. And until either one of them gets more than one bid or consistently gets ranked higher than the other in the tournament, you're blowing hot air. Oh, and the Summit has a losing record in the head to head match-ups against the Big Sky this year. -The new SF arena will probably draw very well, but it will be 90%+ SDSU and USD fans. Will NDSU even have 500 fans? Maybe if they make it to the championship game, but otherwise, I'd take the under. I'm not sure how picking your site, some well below 5000 seats, a week in advance competes with selling tickets a year in advance for a 12,00 seat arena (in 2015), and a beatiful one at that. There might be an advantage for SDSU/USD, but don't have an issue with that. They will get the seed they earn during the regular season. Having an annual tournament site provides $ and stability. The B1G and MVC use thier championship sites to market the championship and make money, and Sioux Falls can do the same for the Summit. Looking at the history of the Summit and Big Sky has nothing to do with 2014 and the future. The Summit has trimmed its fat and have more under 150s and fewer >250s rpi that ever before. I think the core of Denver, Omaha, ORU, SDSU, NDSU, USD will keep the Summit in the top 1/2 of conferences strength wise. The Summit's current bracketology is a 12/13, while BSC is projected to play in. This is based on the teams, but also the League ranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 You've stretched too far again. UND never applied in 2005; hence, UND did not get into the BSC in 2005. That's all that can be said. Beyond that is conjecture. NDSU never applied to the BSC in 2010 so again, we'll never know, and anything more is again conjecture. With regard to 2005, it is easily concluded that 1+ 1 = 2. But you are either unwilling or unable to arrive at this simple arithmetic conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I'm not sure how picking your site, some well below 5000 seats, a week in advance competes with selling tickets a year in advance for a 12,00 seat arena (in 2015), and a beatiful one at that. There might be an advantage for SDSU/USD, but don't have an issue with that. They will get the seed they earn during the regular season. Having an annual tournament site provides $ and stability. The B1G and MVC use thier championship sites to market the championship and make money, and Sioux Falls can do the same for the Summit. Looking at the history of the Summit and Big Sky has nothing to do with 2014 and the future. The Summit has trimmed its fat and have more under 150s and fewer >250s rpi that ever before. I think the core of Denver, Omaha, ORU, SDSU, NDSU, USD will keep the Summit in the top 1/2 of conferences strength wise. The Summit's current bracketology is a 12/13, while BSC is projected to play in. This is based on the teams, but also the League ranking. I won't argue the stability point and convenience of the Summit's setup (again, mainly for SDSU and USD fans), but for a one bid league, it makes the regular season almost pointless. Other than for seeding purposes, the Summit regular season means absolutely nothing, in fact every (eligible) team makes the tournament. What is NDSU's reward for winning the regular season this year going to be? Playing in front of a hostile crowd in South Dakota. Sounds like a great deal! I guess Saul is guaranteed a spot in the NIT if NDSU performs in Sioux Falls like they have the last 4 years, so we don't have to worry about him whining about it this year, so I guess that is a benefit. Bigger conferences have no problem setting their tournaments at neutral sites because if the number one seed loses, they are likely going to the tournament regardless. There isn't as big of a downside nor backlash because it is unfair. As for the rankings and bracketology, again, it is one year. Get multiple bids or win a game, then get back to me. You're saying the past doesn't matter, but until either of those two things happens, the Summit autobid will continue to be ranked in the 13-16 range as it has in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 At least NDSU gets a bye this year...more than they would have gotten in previous seasons. The way the Summit runs their tournament is definitely flawed. Top seeds should always get byes...tournament should be Thursday-Sunday. IMO the Horizon has the best setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 With regard to 2005, it is easily concluded that 1+ 1 = 2. But you are either unwilling or unable to arrive at this simple arithmetic conclusion. Again with conjecture. Yes, 1 + 1 = 2; but, we only have one "1", namely UND did not apply. You're assuming a second "1" (that UND would not get in) which is strictly conjecture. I'm saying there's only one "1" and thus 1 = 1, or, there was no application to join so we'll never know what may have happened. Same would apply for NDSU in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 At least NDSU gets a bye this year...more than they would have gotten in previous seasons. The way the Summit runs their tournament is definitely flawed. Top seeds should always get byes...tournament should be Thursday-Sunday. IMO the Horizon has the best setup. NDSU will be rewarded because UNO is not eligible and there are only 7 eligble teams. Summit's tournament won't move days either, unless they don't want it televised I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I think they could switch dates and get a deal with another sports cable network, that said none of the other networks have the impact that ESPN does. I do agree the Summit doesn't do enough to protect its top teams. If it was up to me I'd scrap the Summit model and move to what the Horizon does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Agree that they have a good model that puts emphasis on the regular season, even if you aren't going to be the 1 seed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Just looking for someone, anyone, that is an honest person to make an honest statement about the 2005 and the 2009 periods, instead of pretending that UND would have been added in 2005, and NDSU wouldn't have been added in 2009. I guess that person is not you. The facts are . . . UND did not apply for membership in 2005 UND was accepted by the Big Sky in 2009 NDSU/SDSU was not accepted by the Big Sky in 2005 NDSU/SDSU had no desire to join the Big Sky in 2009 USD had offers to both the Big Sky and the Summit/MVFC in 2009, and chose the Summit MVFC Nearly every school that applied to the Big Sky in 2009 was added The Assumptions of any Reasonable person . . . UND/USD would have received a big NO on Big sky membership in 2005, just like NDSU/SDSU received NDSU would have been added, along with UND, in 2009 if NDSU would have had a desire to join the Big Sky So NDSU wanted to join the Big Sky in 2005 but had no desire to join if asked in 2009. What changed in those 4 years? Just because NDSU settled for the Summit/MVFC, doesn't mean that they need to rip on UND and oither schools for taking advantage of the situation in 2009. The FACT is that NDSU wanted to be in the Big SKy in 2005, obviously. HAd they still been looking for a conference in 2009, they would have deffinitely wante dto join the Big Sky. YOu are telling me that NDSU has ZERO desire to join the Big SKy if given the chance? I suppose you will come back with all the successes in the Summit/MVFC to prove your point that you are doing just fine where you are at. But face it, NDSU , GT, and most of the fanbase wanted to be in the Big SKy in the past and a part of them would still like to be a part of it now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 So NDSU wanted to join the Big Sky in 2005 but had no desire to join if asked in 2009. What changed in those 4 years? Just because NDSU settled for the Summit/MVFC, doesn't mean that they need to rip on UND and oither schools for taking advantage of the situation in 2009. The FACT is that NDSU wanted to be in the Big SKy in 2005, obviously. HAd they still been looking for a conference in 2009, they would have deffinitely wante dto join the Big Sky. YOu are telling me that NDSU has ZERO desire to join the Big SKy if given the chance? I suppose you will come back with all the successes in the Summit/MVFC to prove your point that you are doing just fine where you are at. But face it, NDSU , GT, and most of the fanbase wanted to be in the Big SKy in the past and a part of them would still like to be a part of it now. Especially come tournament time. Imgaine NDSU with that brand new basketball arena, and no chance at host a playoff game in it. Nope they need to travel 225 miles to Sioux Falls where they are overwhelmed with Jack fans, its no Frisco during the basketball tournament. 2013 #3 NDSU loses to #1 SDSU 2012 #5 NDSU loses to #4 WIU 2011 #7 NDSU loses to #2 ORU 2010 #6 NDSU loses to #3 ORU 2009 #1 NDSU beat #3 Oakland Tough to win a tournament when its NOT on your home court, over 200 miles away and close to 2 other schools in your conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Especially come tournament time. Imgaine NDSU with that brand new basketball arena, and no chance at host a playoff game in it. Nope they need to travel 225 miles to Sioux Falls where they are overwhelmed with Jack fans, its no Frisco during the basketball tournament. 2013 #3 NDSU loses to #1 SDSU 2012 #5 NDSU loses to #4 WIU 2011 #7 NDSU loses to #2 ORU 2010 #6 NDSU loses to #3 ORU 2009 #1 NDSU beat #3 Oakland Tough to win a tournament when its NOT on your home court, over 200 miles away and close to 2 other schools in your conference. Funny how Bison fans love to rip on UND fans and their "hockey only" crowd. Granted it will not be for a National Championship, but how many NDSU fans traveled to Sioux Falls last year to watch their team play SDSU for a berth in the NCAA tournament?!!! Lots of "Football only" fans down in Fargo!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Funny how Bison fans love to rip on UND fans and their "hockey only" crowd. Granted it will not be for a National Championship, but how many NDSU fans traveled to Sioux Falls last year to watch their team play SDSU for a berth in the NCAA tournament?!!! Lots of "Football only" fans down in Fargo!!! They think because they won a NC in football they should be in the MVC, too bad its a "basketball" conference. Wichita State couldn't give two cents about NDSU football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Funny how Bison fans love to rip on UND fans and their "hockey only" crowd. Granted it will not be for a National Championship, but how many NDSU fans traveled to Sioux Falls last year to watch their team play SDSU for a berth in the NCAA tournament?!!! Lots of "Football only" fans down in Fargo!!! When's the last time your bb team got 5700? 17,000 fans down in Frisco (for any NC) is something the you guys will never ever achieve. Oh I forgot "GameDay" How many UND fans were at the conference VB tournament? The last MBB BSC tournament? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The new SF arena will get 10k+ for the Summit championship in years to come. 10,000 is a fine goal for a post-season tournament. Did you know UND is currently averaging 11460 during this regular season for a sport "nobody cares about"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 When's the last time your bb team got 5700? 17,000 fans down in Frisco (for any NC) is something the you guys will never ever achieve. Oh I forgot "GameDay" How many UND fans were at the conference VB tournament? The last MBB BSC tournament? Kinda hard when the Betty holds 3,000. Sorry Dan you must not be a math major. Then your rant is football, football, volleyball (which I am sure more than NDSU fans as you guys don't care about women's athletics as they suck, and as for the MBB BSC tournament, I don't know wasn't there probably the same as NDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 10,000 is a fine goal for a post-season tournament. Did you know UND is currently averaging 11460 during this regular season for a sport "nobody cares about"? Just like the Fargo Force outdraws NDSU sports except football and MBB, again a sport nobody cares about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 So NDSU wanted to join the Big Sky in 2005 but had no desire to join if asked in 2009. What changed in those 4 years? Just because NDSU settled for the Summit/MVFC, doesn't mean that they need to rip on UND and oither schools for taking advantage of the situation in 2009. The FACT is that NDSU wanted to be in the Big SKy in 2005, obviously. HAd they still been looking for a conference in 2009, they would have deffinitely wante dto join the Big Sky. YOu are telling me that NDSU has ZERO desire to join the Big SKy if given the chance? I suppose you will come back with all the successes in the Summit/MVFC to prove your point that you are doing just fine where you are at. But face it, NDSU , GT, and most of the fanbase wanted to be in the Big SKy in the past and a part of them would still like to be a part of it now. NDSU never settled for the summit/mvfc. It was easily choice #1, and thought to be unattainable until wku moved up. I don't think very many would want to leave the summit/mvfc for the big sky. It would be a big step back in all sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 NDSU never settled for the summit/mvfc. It was easily choice #1, and thought to be unattainable until wku moved up. I don't think very many would want to leave the summit/mvfc for the big sky. It would be a big step back in all sports. I think your women's VB, and basketball teams are all ready taking steps backwards (looks like a moonwalk). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg2009 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I think your women's VB, and basketball teams are all ready taking steps backwards (looks like a moonwalk). grow up, we've already had this talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 grow up, we've already had this talk. You grow up, you slam the BSC on a UND site and expect that to go without a response. Don't like it Bisonville is that way ----> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 NDSU never settled for the summit/mvfc. It was easily choice #1, and thought to be unattainable until wku moved up. I don't think very many would want to leave the summit/mvfc for the big sky. It would be a big step back in all sports. Huge step back for all sports in what context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The Summit's current bracketology is a 12/13, while BSC is projected to play in. This is based on the teams, but also the League ranking. Projections mean nothing at point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 NDSU never settled for the summit/mvfc. It was easily choice #1, and thought to be unattainable until wku moved up. I don't think very many would want to leave the summit/mvfc for the big sky. It would be a big step back in all sports. In three years when the Big Sky begins its transition to FBS, the Big Sky will be a huge step up. What's NDSU going to do: turn down a FBS UND offering an FCS team a home and home? Taylor will never agree to a UND game. With UND FBS, the bi-sons can no longer offer the excuse that they need to schedule FBS teams, not UND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Again with conjecture. Yes, 1 + 1 = 2; but, we only have one "1", namely UND did not apply. You're assuming a second "1" (that UND would not get in) which is strictly conjecture. I'm saying there's only one "1" and thus 1 = 1, or, there was no application to join so we'll never know what may have happened. Same would apply for NDSU in 2010. Are you sure 1 + 1 = 2, can we really assume that? Wow, next your going to tell me that Bill Clinton and OJ didn't do anything wrong. I'm surprised you didn't lawyer up about 3 posts ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 With regard to 2005, it is easily concluded that 1+ 1 = 2. But you are either unwilling or unable to arrive at this simple arithmetic conclusion. Looks like they are still offering those grad level math courses at the Ag College. You are correct. (In case you guessed). Does anyone other than Sicatoka realize how pointless this argument is? Who cares? We are in Big Sky, Ag School is in Summit and MVFC. Too bad we aren't in same conference. You'd rather be where you are and we are happy in Big Sky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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