82SiouxGuy Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I will vouch for 82. He's a great guy. We just don't always agree on things;) Thanks. I think it's mainly one topic where we haven't agreed.
82SiouxGuy Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Getting back to the actual topic, how about another parking option. According to the web site, UND sells season parking passes at the Wellness Center for $175. The distance from there to the Student entrance at REA is pretty close to what someone would walk from a parked vehicle to the shuttle, plus from the shuttle to the front door at REA. The advantage is that most of the walk would be protected from a north wind by the building. In addition, yesterday I was told by a student that you can park in that lot for $10 per game. They saw signs up as they walked to the game on Saturday. You should probably call the Parking Office to verify that, but if it is true it provides the same basic parking opportunity as formerly parking in the ramp and taking a shuttle. It is also similar to parking in any of the REA lots along Columbia Road without having to pay the higher Champions Club fees. And to put a little perspective into the discussion, parking at the south end of the Tabula lot is about the same distance is parking at the very south end of the Alerus Center parking lot. Most of the parking used for REA events is within the same walking distance as parking at the Alerus Center for events. The main difference is that there is more parking in the medium distances at the Alerus Center.
Redneksioux Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I didn't make it to the Vermont series, but for the Sunday night game vs Manitoba there was more on-street parking available east of the Ralph. Past few years the city has not allowed parking on certain sides of streets and they didn't have any signs up(when I parked before the Manitoba game at least). Personally I prefer parking off the street east of the Ralph because how quick you can get out of there after a game.
YaneA Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Actually, we have met a couple of times. The last was when I picked up the hats that Mafia made. But we have never had much of a conversation in person. Sorry that it didn't register that we had met. Wear your toque in good health. We'll just have to disagree about the value of the shuttle to those who lament its demise and long for its return. For me, with all my quirks, it was the very best option to get to and from the games. I will adjust, but I refuse to be happy about it.
Cratter Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I can vouch UND charges $10 for wellness center parking if you don't want to walk that far....same goes for the Albatross ($10 parking) which reopened today. Having that building open is a nice asset for UND hockey fans to grab a drink before/after games. Park close to the arena and after have a beer while traffic dies down.
Cratter Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Sorry that it didn't register that we had met. Wear your toque in good health. We'll just have to disagree about the value of the shuttle to those who lament its demise and long for its return. For me, with all my quirks, it was the very best option to get to and from the games. I will adjust, but I refuse to be happy about it. I'm with ya. There is "reasons" for everything and the world doesn't necessarily change for the better. Pay to park here and there. No smoking at events anymore....the future will be no smoking anywhere indoors. Parking prices will go up. I will get older. The government will continue to secretly spy on all its citizens. Drunk driving bac will be lowered eventually til it's .04 or less. Alcohol prices will increase to more ridiculous amounts. And people will continue to try to outlaw alcohol. (There's a group of people in gf pushing alcohol served at sporting events/tailgating is bad because kids are around and it's a "bad" influence on them. So you need to consume that alcohol in an enclosed space - rea club lounges. But unfortunately for them money speaks louder than words). You will never know how many people will quit going to the games because of "the small stuff" like this and eventually reach a breaking point and just decide to watch at home. Despite what the Ralph and paper says the Saturday game against Vermont was not nearly sold out(easily 300 open seats as not one soul was sitting in the northern upper student section)!! And if just five, five people decide to go to a game that wouldn't have before that's an "extra" $200 a game. Easily enough for the Ralph to give to UND to continue the shuttle!?
82SiouxGuy Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Sorry that it didn't register that we had met. Wear your toque in good health. We'll just have to disagree about the value of the shuttle to those who lament its demise and long for its return. For me, with all my quirks, it was the very best option to get to and from the games. I will adjust, but I refuse to be happy about it. I never said it wasn't valuable to people that used it. I enjoyed using it when I didn't have better options. For instance, it was better than parking behind Tabula even though it was double the price. My point is that I don't blame UND for stopping the service if they were losing money on it. I don't believe that UND should have to subsidize a service for a selected few. And there must not have been enough people using it if they were losing money. If they were making money on the service I'm sure that they would have been happy to keep it going.
Cratter Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 The Ralph/UND needs to build a parking ramp on that gravel lot between them and the wellness center and charge for parking...it'd eventually pay for itself and be another money maker for them (UND/Ralph). And with a roof charge $20 per spot if you wanted to open your tailgate and have a beer. 1
Cratter Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Here's an interesting thought. If Ralph Engelstad had decided to build that building by the Alerus (be stupid I know) UND might have no problem continuing to run that shuttle. (as UND runs shuttles continuously nonstop all day for students...even running it to the alerus numerous times for football..I never used it but my tuition went to help subsidize it.)
82SiouxGuy Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 The Ralph/UND needs to build a parking ramp on that gravel lot between them and the wellness center and charge for parking...it'd eventually pay for itself and be another money maker for them (UND/Ralph). And with a roof charge $20 per spot if you wanted to open your tailgate and have a beer. I know that the subject of a ramp has come up before and I'm sure that it would be popular. But I don't know if they have enough events to make it pay. Between hockey games and concerts there are probably 25 to 30 events a year where they would need the parking space. Say they have 400 spots in the ramp. Charge $10 per spot, that totals about $100-125,000 per year. Some of that revenue would go to pay employees. That probably isn't enough to pay for the debt service on building the structure. They would need to have more events where they would have 6,000 or more people to make it pay for itself.
Cratter Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Your probably right but the Ralph might be able to save up and pay for it with cash? How much did that addition to the Betty cost and where did the money come from? It's a long term investment that would take years to see dividends but would eventually be a money maker.
82SiouxGuy Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Your probably right but the Ralph might be able to save up and pay for it with cash? How much did that addition to the Betty cost and where did the money come from? It's a long term investment that would take years to see dividends but would eventually be a money maker. I'm pretty sure that they borrowed money to build the Betty. I think it was on another thread that someone posted a link to the 990 for the Betty. When I glanced at it I thought that it looked like they still owe more than $4,000,000. But that wasn't the reason I was looking at the form so I can't be sure if I read that correctly.
Cratter Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I meant that new addition to the Betty they build this year. They are using it for storage or something. Just like a ramp to store cars
yababy8 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I will vouch for 82. He's a great guy. We just don't always agree on things;) Some day he will concede that he was on the wrong side of right about the name change too.
yababy8 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I'm with ya. There is "reasons" for everything and the world doesn't necessarily change for the better. Pay to park here and there. No smoking at events anymore....the future will be no smoking anywhere indoors. Parking prices will go up. I will get older. The government will continue to secretly spy on all its citizens. Don't forget about the devaluation of white males...
YaneA Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 And my point is discontinuing shuttle on 2 days notice without having TRIED other options is short sighted. Charging only 10 bucks to park in ramp regardless of number of people in car may have created the problem. Charge each person for the ride or raise the parking fee. At some point the expense and revenue numbers would approach one another, you'd think. Other people argue the service, even if operated at a loss, is a valuable sign of good will, customer relations. The Ralph Fanline told me they will pressure UND to return shuttle. Perhaps the Ralph will underwrite part of the cost since it's the Ralph's customers benefitting from the park and ride. 3
jdub27 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Your probably right but the Ralph might be able to save up and pay for it with cash? How much did that addition to the Betty cost and where did the money come from? It's a long term investment that would take years to see dividends but would eventually be a money maker. I'm pretty sure that they borrowed money to build the Betty. I think it was on another thread that someone posted a link to the 990 for the Betty. When I glanced at it I thought that it looked like they still owe more than $4,000,000. But that wasn't the reason I was looking at the form so I can't be sure if I read that correctly. Money was borrowed to pay for the Betty, another asset that UND will someday be taking over debt free. And while the Ralph may be able to cover the shortfall that a parking ramp would create, that cash would come from what is supposed to go to UND and if there is anything I have learned the past week or two, it is that the Ralph is supposedly already not giving UND enough or close to what was promised in terms of dollars. Having to support a parking ramp would just make the problem worse. As for the addition, it is a 3,100 square foot storage space, cost was not large.
82SiouxGuy Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 And my point is discontinuing shuttle on 2 days notice without having TRIED other options is short sighted. Charging only 10 bucks to park in ramp regardless of number of people in car may have created the problem. Charge each person for the ride or raise the parking fee. At some point the expense and revenue numbers would approach one another, you'd think. Other people argue the service, even if operated at a loss, is a valuable sign of good will, customer relations. The Ralph Fanline told me they will pressure UND to return shuttle. Perhaps the Ralph will underwrite part of the cost since it's the Ralph's customers benefitting from the park and ride. The timing was definitely bad. Personally, I don't think it would have helped much to start raising the fee. As the price went up, the number of users would naturally go down. It was already about as high as I was willing to pay for the convenience. If my estimates are close, they would have had to add another $3-4 per person for the shuttle. A family of 4 would have had to pay another $12 per game. There would have been outrage about that also. The only way I see it coming back is if REA (or some sponsor) underwrites the service.
siouxweet Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 if what YaneA said is true about REA pressuring UND I'm willing to bet it will be back before the end of the year.
YaneA Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I texted the Fanline : Please put pressure on UND to bring back hockey shuttle. They responded: Will do. Ongoing discussion If you want the shuttle back but didn't text the Fanline, wtf? Please do so. I gave the number earlier in the thread.
82SiouxGuy Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 I'm pretty sure that they borrowed money to build the Betty. I think it was on another thread that someone posted a link to the 990 for the Betty. When I glanced at it I thought that it looked like they still owe more than $4,000,000. But that wasn't the reason I was looking at the form so I can't be sure if I read that correctly. I went back and checked the 990 from the other thread. The $4,000,000+ was assets, the form listed $0 for liabilities. After looking at it closer, it probably is not for the Betty, it must be a separate 501©3. So I don't know if they still owe any money on the Betty or not.
gfhockey Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 I texted them....must be blocked lol...message didn't send....damn black out nights when und was getting smoked.
YaneA Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Peggy Lucke's response is below. It seems to me that her numbers leave out any revenue figures and focus only on costs but I am a total math idiot so maybe it makes sense. From Ms Lucke: Here's a statement I’m sending in response to a number of emails I received. The hockey shuttle has been subsidized by the parking enterprise between $3000 and $6800 in recent years. Up to the 2013-2014 season, UND Parking Services provided a shuttle service to transport hockey patrons who parked in the UND parking ramp from the ramp to the Ralph Engelstad Arena for all home men’s hockey games. The patrons parking in the ramp were charged a fee ($10) to cover the parking and the cost of the shuttle service. The parking ramp/hockey shuttle service has not been generating sufficient revenue to cover the cost of the service. The buses utilized for the shuttle service are owned by the ND Department of Transportation and leased by the University. During the 2012-2013 hockey season, the cost for the shuttle buses alone was $820 per hockey event night. We are looking at some options to reinstate a shuttle from the Memorial Stadium parking lot. If we are able to make the necessary arrangements, there will be a fee for the service. Peggy Lucke Associate Vice President for Finance and Operations University of North Dakota Twamley Hall 116B 264 Centennial Drive, Stop 8364 Grand Forks, ND 58202-8364
Cratter Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Well there ya go. Why is the university paying to lease a bus from the state? Let alone paying $800 a night to use it? One state government program paying another state government program. Odd. Simple math shows the buses made a profit minus the $1600 for a weekend of use to pay the state of North Dakota.
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