Dear any new Bakken Billionaires

[82SiouxGuy]

The best thing for UND has nothing to do with athletics. It is a school first and foremost, the best thing is based solely on academics and academics only. A school does not need an athletic dept. in order to be a fine institution of higher learning. All of this alleged concern for the school is in reality concern for only the athletics dept, which is fine if you would just be straight up and call it what it is.

We have concentrated our concerns and much of the discussion on the athletic department. But if you have been paying attention, we have also discussed data that proves successful athletic programs help attract students, donations, even help attract grants. The donations and grants are not limited to the athletic department, and the students come for a variety of academic options. Examples are increased applications at Butler the past couple of years, and how Gonzaga grew because they started making it to be a part of March Madness. There are plenty of other examples. More students and more donations are good for the school and help the school grow. Athletics are used as a marketing tool for schools. Look right down the street from where you live, NDSU grew very quickly over several years and part of the reason was getting attention in the Twin Cities area and the rest of the region because of success in football and basketball. You don't absolutely need an athletic department, but it is a very useful tool. Now you want to take that tool out of UND's tool box.

[82SiouxGuy]

Ya know, had they gone away from the Sioux name in the early '70s before I was old enough to care I would most likely to this day be a fan of the UND whatevers. But because they got me hooked on the Fighting Sioux I will react accordingly when they take it away from me.

Another fine example of your narcissistic tendencies.

[JohnboyND7]

Ya know, had they gone away from the Sioux name in the early '70s before I was old enough to care I would most likely to this day be a fan of the UND whatevers. But because they got me hooked on the Fighting Sioux I will react accordingly when they take it away from me.

So you just admitted that you don't just cheer for them cause they are the Sioux? You can easily cheer for them after the name is gone.

[The Sicatoka]

Would Ralph Engelstad been able to make the donations he's made to the Chester Fritz Library collections* (General Patton's papers from WWI, worth millions) if it hadn't have been for a hockey scholarship to UND and his UND education in business?

*I intentionally avoided his other donations to UND.

[Bison06]

You are all neglecting a talking point that should hit near and dear to each and every UND fan that has ever lived. Donations.

How many donations are made each and every year to academic programs from wealthy former athletes who went on to thriving business careers or even played professionally.

I don't know it for sure, but I have no doubt at least some of Ralph Engelstad's money goes to academic programs, I am sure the same is true with T. Boone Pickens at OKST.

Neither of those two would have donated a dime without the athletic programs.

Heck, even a guy like Jim Kleinsasser may become fairly sizeable academic donor in the future and he wouldn't have gone to UND if they didn't have athletics.

Edit: Sicatoka beat me to it.

[82SiouxGuy]

You're too funny. I have always laughed at people who like to make accusations of narcissism because it has always been a double-standard. If you like a person that has certain tendencies you say they have a lot of self-confidence, but if you dislike that person they're narcissistic.

What's really funny is you pick out about the only definition that's positive. And you never see self-confidence related back to narcissism. Here are some synonyms for both terms. They are not directly related. For you it boils down to selfishness, self-interest, self-absorption, etc. Those aren't related to self-confidence. Nice try though.

Main Entry:

narcissism [nahr-suh-siz-em]

Part of Speech:

noun

Definition:

egotism

Synonyms:

arrogance, boastfulness, boasting, bragging, conceit, conceitedness, ego, egocentricity, egoism, egomania, gasconade, haughtiness, insolence, ostentation, overconfidence, presumption, self-absorption, self-admiration, self-importance, self-interest, self-love, self-possession, self-regard, self-worship, selfishness, superiority, swellheadedness, vainglory, vainness, vanity, vaunting

Main Entry:

self-confidence [self-kon-fi-duhns, self-]

Part of Speech:

noun

Definition:

self assurance

Synonyms:

aplomb, inner strength, positive self-image, self-assurance

[82SiouxGuy]

You are all neglecting a talking point that should hit near and dear to each and every UND fan that has ever lived. Donations.

How many donations are made each and every year to academic programs from wealthy former athletes who went on to thriving business careers or even played professionally.

I don't know it for sure, but I have no doubt at least some of Ralph Engelstad's money goes to academic programs, I am sure the same is true with T. Boone Pickens at OKST.

Neither of those two would have donated a dime without the athletic programs.

Heck, even a guy like Jim Kleinsasser may become fairly sizeable academic donor in the future and he wouldn't have gone to UND if they didn't have athletics.

Edit: Sicatoka beat me to it.

And if you look back a few posts further you will see that I mentioned donations for things other than athletics.

[82SiouxGuy]

Lots of people go to college and never set foot inside any of the athletic venues.

You still didn't answer his question. You made a statement earlier that some of the top schools in the country didn't have an athletic department. He provided a list of the top schools in the country, all of them have athletics and most or all belong to the NCAA. Where are your examples of top schools without athletics?

[Bison06]

And if you look back a few posts further you will see that I mentioned donations for things other than athletics.

Whoops, my apologies, missed that. Carry on

[jodcon]

Whoops, my apologies, missed that. Carry on

That's OK, it's hard to keep track of every post in the running DaveK/82SiouxGuy (and others) debate.

[UNDBIZ]

Lots of people go to college and never set foot inside any of the athletic venues.

1. Not at UND. 2. How would you know???

[82SiouxGuy]

1. Not at UND. 2. How would you know???

I think he's confused. Lots of people attend sporting events and never set foot in a classroom.

[UNDBIZ]

I think he's confused. Lots of people attend sporting events and never set foot in a classroom.

Well he should know that, he's one of them.

[watchmaker49]

I think he's confused. Lots of people attend sporting events and never set foot in a classroom.

In Grand Forks I would say the majority of them never went to UND.

[watchmaker49]

Lots of people go to college and never set foot inside any of the athletic venues.

Very true.

[Fetch]

Big Deal

But I do think a lot of folks who have been die hard Fighting Sioux Fans for 10 20 30 or even 40 yrs or more are going to think to heck with it.

Not as much in Hockey - but other sports are going to see the effect

& if the Hockey team has a few bad yrs it will happen there too - Plus the new Hockey League is still untested

The Brand / Name took a long time to develop

A lot of people like myself see the effort was weak & fractured & too many like the know it alls on here, now think it will just not effect fan base - I think they are wrong - what is to come if the name is removed will be far worse than the modest sanctions

[bincitysioux]

So you were never a fan of North Dakota Football.

A fan?

Ummm, no.

DaveK hates North Dakota Football and Hockey, there is no way around it. It is as clear as the sky is blue. He obviously cannot stand UND and wishes to see every facet of the institution fail on a grand scale.

Where his disdain for the University comes from is known only to him, as he refuses to enlighten the rest of us as to why he so clearly wants to see North Dakota football and hockey crumble into the ashes............................

[The Sicatoka]

I suspect there is more nickname fatigue out there than many of us realize.

[Chewey]

I suspect there is more nickname fatigue out there than many of us realize.

That may work well for the "No" vote. Tie that sentiment to the NCAA and you have a very good basis.

[The Sicatoka]

I see the fatigue camp voting to make it go away.

[82SiouxGuy]

That may work well for the "No" vote. Tie that sentiment to the NCAA and you have a very good basis.

Most of the people I know with name fatigue want the whole thing gone, and some have wanted it gone for several years. When I say gone I mean they want the name gone. Because if the name stays they are going to have to hear about it over and over again every time the sanctions affect a team. They don't care about the NCAA. They just don't want to hear about the issue any more.

[Hawkster]

Whoops, my apologies, missed that. Carry on

Hey bison06, this has nothing to do with anything you've posted. I'm just wondering what your avatar says? There is no way for me to read that fine print. You probably would have made a good lawyer. Ha Ha.

[82SiouxGuy]

You have now officially gone way off the deep end, beyond the point of no return. I would actually feel sorry for you if you weren't such a self-righteous jerk, but as it is I share a good laugh at the expense of your misfortune.

Interesting post, LakesDave. Having a bad night? You might want to try some warm milk. A good nights sleep will help.

[82SiouxGuy]

This misguided notion that only students/alums can have any real attachment to a college sports team is one of the most flawed arguments that I have ever heard of. There are a lot of big sports fans who never attended college and at the same time a lot of college educated people who could give a rat's a$$ about sports. I happen to have a cousin who grew up in GF and is a big Sioux fan but attended college at the U of M. This cousin is not a fan of Gopher sports in spite of being a student at the U of M. Those of you who think that being a student at whatever college makes you a super fan of the sports teams at said college are idiots, plain and simple. Being a college student and being a sports fan are not one in the same, they're apples and oranges.

A little bit of an anger issue maybe? Congratulate your cousin on getting a decent education and having good taste in sports teams. But I'm not sure what relevance any of this post has to the issues.

[UNDBIZ]

This misguided notion that only students/alums can have any real attachment to a college sports team is one of the most flawed arguments that I have ever heard of.

You don't have an attachment to the team, your attachment is only to the team's nickname. Most students/alums have an attachment to the school itself, but that's something you apparently will never understand.