The Sicatoka Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 You're locked onto blaming the current administration. The settlement agreement was signed by the ND AG (Stenejhem) and the NDUS Chancellor (then Goetz) before Kelley or Faison were at UND. The State's lawyer and Kelley's boss (the Chancellor) had settled this before Kelley and Faison got to UND. 1 Quote
yababy8 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 DaveK, Fetch, Chewey, somebody called and left a message for you: “If anyone’s focus is on a jersey or what we’re wearing, that better change right away. We’ve got one focus." -- Mario Lamoureux, captain, University of No rth Dakota mens hockey. Seems Mario believes what is in the jersey is far more important than what is on it. Jersey, no jersey. Nickname, no nickname. Mario wants to win. Get out of his way. If there is anyone who supports the name fight that does not support mario's position I would call them a plant. Sicatoca, your post was paramont to flag burning rhetoric. Common man? Keep in legit! Quote
yababy8 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 You're locked onto blaming the current administration. The settlement agreement was signed by the ND AG (Stenejhem) and the NDUS Chancellor (then Goetz) before Kelley or Faison were at UND. The State's lawyer and Kelley's boss (the Chancellor) had settled this before Kelley and Faison got to UND. How would you rate our diplomacy coefficient at that time? And why should it be that diplomacy stop at the settlement signing? this sounds like a lawyer thinking, we all need to understand the world operates on a greater scale then just legal settlements, just ask native americans, they know a little something about that. our culture is not defined in the court room. it doesn't matter if the Sioux Tribe will win the lawsuit. what matters is that they are suing the NCAA. that is the point. how we win is we get that out into the consciousness of american society. there in lies OUR victory. not in the weather or whether not the team decides to wear their Sioux jersey's. anyone who thinks they should is an idiot! Quote
UNDBIZ Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 it doesn't matter if the Sioux Tribe will win the lawsuit. what matters is that they are suing the NCAA. that is the point. how we win is we get that out into the consciousness of american society. there in lies OUR victory. I hope you are victorious in your quest. However, I don't understand why this can't be done without causing harm (sanctions) to UND. 1 Quote
Goon Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I am sure all athletes feel this way. Its too bad certain fans can't see it this way. At the Wednesday press conference all of the players were asked about the uniform and it's not going to be a distraction. The guys are focused on the WMU Broncos, that's it, I think they would play in a hoody if they had to. Edited March 22, 2012 by Goon Quote
ScottM Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I hope you are victorious in your quest. However, I don't understand why this can't be done without causing harm (sanctions) to UND. I don't know about you, but after reading that diatribe, I thought I heard strains of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" ... or maybe it was the copier near my office. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 How would you rate our diplomacy coefficient at that time? And why should it be that diplomacy stop at the settlement signing? At the time Stenejhem signed he stated that he'd worked with the Tribes in the past and believed something could be worked out with them. That's diplomacy. But Standing Rock would not discuss the matter. Quote
ScottM Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 At the time Stenejhem signed he stated that he'd worked with the Tribes in the past and believed something could be worked out with them. That's diplomacy. But Standing Rock would not discuss the matter. And the SL regime at that time was apathetic, at best. They didn't even want to discuss the matter with Kucphella. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 If there is anyone who supports the name fight that does not support mario's position I would call them a plant. Sicatoca, your post was paramont to flag burning rhetoric. Common man? Keep in legit! Why come after me? Go after Mario Lamoureux. He's the one that said, “If anyone’s focus is on a jersey or what we’re wearing, that better change right away. We’ve got one focus." Seems Mario is more interested in playing and winning than what is on his shirt. Good for Mario. PS - Oh yeah, I'm really a plant. I joined this forum in October 2001. I supported the moniker and logo, until it because a net negative to the University thanks to the NCAA. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 How would you rate our diplomacy coefficient at that time? And why should it be that diplomacy stop at the settlement signing? this sounds like a lawyer thinking, we all need to understand the world operates on a greater scale then just legal settlements, just ask native americans, they know a little something about that. our culture is not defined in the court room. it doesn't matter if the Sioux Tribe will win the lawsuit. what matters is that they are suing the NCAA. that is the point. how we win is we get that out into the consciousness of american society. there in lies OUR victory. not in the weather or whether not the team decides to wear their Sioux jersey's. anyone who thinks they should is an idiot! You can't negotiate with someone if they won't talk with you, or communicate with you in any way. Spirit Lake refused to talk with Kupchella in the days and months after the NCAA policy was announced. Standing Rock hasn't been willing to discuss the issue since 1992. They wouldn't return phone calls, e-mails or even attempts to set up meetings. Many attempts were made. Negotiations take back and forth communications and can't be done by one side. You also have a very difficult time negotiating when one side has everything they want. The NCAA has what they want out of the situation. UND has nothing to give back in the negotiations. You can't make a deal if you can't give something of value. The NCAA got what they wanted out of the settlement negotiations. They have repeatedly said that they don't plan to negotiate any further on this issue. Again, if one side doesn't want to negotiate, then you don't have the opportunity to hold a negotiation. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Negotiations take back and forth communications and can't be done by one side. It doesn't matter how much diplomacy you have if the other side won't talk to you. Quote
yababy8 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 You can't negotiate with someone if they won't talk with you, or communicate with you in any way. Spirit Lake refused to talk with Kupchella in the days and months after the NCAA policy was announced. Spirit Lake hasn't been willing to discuss the issue since 1992. They wouldn't return phone calls, e-mails or even attempts to set up meetings. Many attempts were made. Negotiations take back and forth communications and can't be done by one side. You also have a very difficult time negotiating when one side has everything they want. The NCAA has what they want out of the situation. UND has nothing to give back in the negotiations. You can't make a deal if you can't give something of value. The NCAA got what they wanted out of the settlement negotiations. They have repeatedly said that they don't plan to negotiate any further on this issue. Again, if one side doesn't want to negotiate, then you don't have the opportunity to hold a negotiation. Wrong! what we have is the reality of overwhelming support for the name. Support that includes the preponderance of native american Sioux. This canand should be leveraged. Currently it is not being utilized appropriately. 1 Quote
yababy8 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Why come after me? Go after Mario Lamoureux. He's the one that said, “If anyone’s focus is on a jersey or what we’re wearing, that better change right away. We’ve got one focus." Seems Mario is more interested in playing and winning than what is on his shirt. Good for Mario. PS - Oh yeah, I'm really a plant. I joined this forum in October 2001. I supported the moniker and logo, until it because a net negative to the University thanks to the NCAA. you used the Mario quote to gain position against Fetch, chewey and another poster. Doing that was paramount to pulling the flag burning crap on people. We all three agree and support Lamoureux's statement.... I never associated you with the if in my if then statement. Commons man!<---third today Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Wrong! what we have is the reality of overwhelming support for the name. Support that includes the preponderance of native american Sioux. This canand should be leveraged. Currently it is not being utilized appropriately. That support has no meaning to the NCAA. And it doesn't change anything legally for the settlement or the NCAA. Therefore the support doesn't help to promote any kind of negotiation. There isn't going to be any vote that will be binding on the NCAA. Also, even though there is support on Spirit Lake, the fact is that every Sioux tribe other than Spirit Lake is officially opposed to UND using the nickname. And it is the official position for every other tribe in the region. Those are the factors that the NCAA is going to consider and the factors that they considered when creating the policy. 2 Quote
Fetch Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 this thread should read the latest from the SOB's Quote
Shawn-O Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Someone put a tent over this circus. There are some that will halt donations to UND due to the name change? My pocketbook is shut (not that I'm a big hitter) until it's resolved. At this rate that's until I'm dead. Quote
UNDColorado Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 The reality is that the majority of people who are saying that they will not donate to UND if they drop the name actually never have donated in the first place. I believe the Champions club had a record year. Quote
iramurphy Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Wrong! what we have is the reality of overwhelming support for the name. Support that includes the preponderance of native american Sioux. This canand should be leveraged. Currently it is not being utilized appropriately. We no longer have "overwhelming support" for the name. I believe Quote
Popular Post iramurphy Posted March 23, 2012 Popular Post Posted March 23, 2012 Continued: I believe UND alumni, most GF community and business leaders, most athletes and coaches (past and present) no longer support keeping the name at all costs. .I believe the majority of Native Americans at Spirit Lake and possibly still at Standing Rock do support keeping the name but not so many if it means harm to UND and UND athletics. Too many of the zealots lost your credibility when you weren't willing to lose a hockey game over the issue. It means you don't want UND and the athletes to pay the price for something out of their control and I agree. Chewey is the exception. He would take the loss. I disagree, but at least he is a man of his convictions. I have gotten to the point of lets win the hockey game. This competition is the purpose of intercollegiate athletics. Yababy you haven't offered any solutions. IF you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Shawn O, let me know what you supposedly are going to refuse to donate each year and I will verify it with UND and then find someone to help me cover it. IF people aren't smart enough to see this is not the doing of UND or UND athletics then they just aren't very smart. If you want to punish UND athletes and coaches for things they have no control over then good riddance. Really what is so important about this particular name. It isn't about the Native Americans, they didn't step up when one tribe could have resolved this in 2005. It isn't Kelly, Faison Thomas or Kupchella. They are a cowards target. The enemy is still the NCAA, They are a private organization that voted over 400 to 6 to support this policy, YA baby go negotiate with them, but you maybe haven't noticed some pretty talented people and about $1,000,000 have failed to convince the NCAA, What makes you think more legislation (already tried and failed) or a lawsuit (courts have previously ruled in the favor of NCAA having the right to make their own rules and if you don't like them leave). This is a waste of time, resources and emotional energy. Lets go cheer on our hockey team. Go Sioux! 5 Quote
Shawn-O Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Ira: Donating money at this time just feels like a bad investment, kind of like a corporation. Lots of hard working people at company X, just like these kids in UND athletics work hard. It doesn't make it a sound investment, not until the uncertainty goes away, one way or the other. As for the causes of uncertainty, that has been discussed here ad nauseum. As for my annual donation, it was a measly four figures, I'm sure you and you're coffee buddies can find pocket change to make up the difference. For the record, I did not state my stance on the nickname. Go ahead and judge my level of intellect based on this logic...however much or little the amount, it is a budget item that I will invest as I see fit. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 The enemy is still the NCAA, They are a private organization that voted over 400 to 6 to support this policy, ... That deserved repeating for emphasis. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 you used the Mario quote to gain position against Fetch, chewey and another poster. And it worked. The captain of the team you support is more interested in playing than what's on his shirt that day. Whoever said "overwhelming support" isn't anymore has proof right there. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Someone put a tent over this circus. There are some that will halt donations to UND due to the name change? My pocketbook is shut (not that I'm a big hitter) until it's resolved. At this rate that's until I'm dead. To Shawn-O's point, I've heard many state that they don't care the outcome anymore, they just want this sideshow over with. <-- Moniker fatigue. There's more of it out there than I think any of us would guess. Quote
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