Change the name gaining support

[Feff]

It's not the name that is scaring off recruits, it is being on NCAA sanctions. No hope of home playoff games is a major turn-off. Constantly having to be associated with a school under sanctions, turn-off. Why would you want to go to a sanctioned school when there are other, non-sanctioned schools recruiting you? So therefore, the recruiting reason is very valid and far from BS. You've heard this from Mussman (having gone through recruitment) and Lennon (outside perspective now). To claim it's not affecting the athletics here is BS.

[82SiouxGuy]

This is soooooo political! The new way to get things done in this society "scare them into doing what we want them to do"!

When I heard the womens hockey team may get home ice for playoffs and it would have to be on another site because of the name stuff, (which makes no sense, the mens team play home playoffs here?) I thought maybe it is time to move on without the name and let the tribes try and repair this for another later date.

Than they will be off the "hostile and abusive list" which will let them play these schools that now can't play them and the teams when the WCHA break apart to play them also, IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE CALLED THE FIGHTING SIOUX!! Its because of the list!!

But when they want to shut down a state wide vote, as to stop the voting process from doing what the voters want, and make it so the other people get what they want! (Like what already happened to the tribes)! I say no way! This is what caused all this to begin with, not letting the tribes vote! No way! Not me!

Also all this talk of recruiting being down because of the name is BS, IMO! Has there ever been a student/athlete that has said "I want to attend UND but with them being called the Fighting Sioux, I think I will pass"? Doubt it!

Also happon is spelled happen, just saying........

Two things about your post. First, if a law is unconstitutional it shouldn't be a law. That goes for laws that are made by the legislature and laws that are made by referendum or inititiative (by the people). The Constitution is the framework of the government and the basis for the rest of the laws. If a law doesn't fit within that framework, if it goes against what is in the Constitution, then it should not be a law. That is the basis for the case going to the Supreme Court and why they are asking to prevent the vote in June. The will of the people does not overrule the Constitution unless it is to add an amendment to the Constitution.

I doubt that there are very many people that have refused an athletic scholarship to UND because they don't like the nickname Fighting Sioux. But I have no doubts that there are people that have gone to other schools instead of UND because of the sanctions that UND is under while they use the nickname and logo. That problem is just going to get bigger and bigger the longer the nickname is kept. If you had a choice of a full scholarship between 2 schools, and one of them is under NCAA sanctions, why would you decide to go to the school with the sanctions?

You are right, the issues with the Big Sky and with other schools are because of the sanctions and not because of the nickname. But the sanctions are in place because of the nickname. And the sanctions aren't going away until the name goes away. Why is that so hard for people to understand? None of these efforts to force UND to keep the name are going to make the NCAA change their mind about the nickname and sanctions.

[choyt3]

This is soooooo political! The new way to get things done in this society "scare them into doing what we want them to do"!

When I heard the womens hockey team may get home ice for playoffs and it would have to be on another site because of the name stuff, (which makes no sense, the mens team play home playoffs here?)

The UND men's team plays league playoff games at home, not NCAA playoff games. That's the difference.

[bigskyvikes]

The UND men's team plays league playoff games at home, not NCAA playoff games. That's the difference.

Isn't the game we are talking about the WCHA playoff for women's hockey? Or don't they have a season ending tourny like the men's?

[Hayduke]

Folks, I just can't get too excited about this new campaign idea. Overall, this is a defensive plan, desperate and reactionary.

There's also a meme being pushed that it's the pro-namer's fault and they're a bunch of slack-jawed idiots. Possibly some, but not the vast majority. Do not forget, this predicament was brought on by the NDSBoHE, UND admin, and ND political leadership. The fact that they now have to go into full emergency mode damage control is not something I can enthusiastically root on. Kinda like watching the medical team administer aggressive chemo after three years of misdiagnosis and inaction.

Flame Carlson all you want, but at least he resisted a little when the red rubber ball with the leather strap came out. And, by the way, that law is the people speaking through their representatives. And the signed petition, well that's the people speaking directly. The fact that what more than 2/3rds of the state wants is now damaging to UND is not the fault of those people. It is most certainly NOT the fault of Spirit Lake, who was crapped on by the Board two years ago, and they have every right to be p!ssed. I actually like seeing them still fighting; representing a never give up attitude which is what I always read about on this board.

So, sure, despite all that you can put me in the camp of wanting UND athletics to flourish in D-1. If it takes dropping the name, I'm for that too. But, most certainly you will NOT find me cheering on any political leadership who has been in the drivers seat for the past 5 years now sounding like they have all the answers if only the boneheaded public had a clue and went along with their completely and utterly hosed up plan. A plan which now includes the star studded campaign of current and former coaches, who must feel terrible that it's come to this.

What a colossal failure of unrivaled epicness.

taz

Good post.

Hey, I like Archie Fool Bear. He's a passionate man who is doing what he believes to be right. He's a good guy.

Those folks, like most of my relatives in North Dakota think that dropping the nickname is a bad, bad idea. They see it as caving in to the NC$$. Can't say I blame them, honestly. When all the facts come out, reluctantly, the citizens that understand the issue will vote to do what it takes to retire the name. Then, cross their fingers that SL takes it to the NCAA in court.

HAD TO ADD SOMETHING... But, don't count on it. Realistically, let's wait a few years then change the name if needed.

[Hayduke]

Isn't the game we are talking about the WCHA playoff for women's hockey? Or don't they have a season ending tourny like the men's?

The women's team is borderline on getting home ice for the NCAA playoffs. If they do, with the current nickname situation, they will forfeit the right to host and go on the road.

The WCHA playoffs do not matter. They will have home ice for the first round of that tourney.

[choyt3]

Isn't the game we are talking about the WCHA playoff for women's hockey? Or don't they have a season ending tourny like the men's?

The UND women's team is hosting Bemidji State next weekend in the WCHA first round. Games will be afternoon games at REA due to ND state hockey tourney.

[bigskyvikes]

The women's team is borderline on getting home ice for the NCAA playoffs. If they do, with the current nickname situation, they will forfeit the right to host and go on the road.

The WCHA playoffs do not matter. They will have home ice for the first round of that tourney.

Got it, thank you. I thought the NC$$ could be held here if they didn't wear Sioux jerseys which the don't? This stuff is getting so old and confusing, I wish it would all go away!

[GeauxSioux]

Push to Save Fighting Sioux Name Leaves North Dakota in Costly Limbo

Until this is resolved, either by referendum in June or by a state Supreme Court decision before that, the university finds itself in a costly pickle. Faison said the athletic department spent $750,000 on the original transition. He declined to predict the cost of changing back.

“To do it twice, it’s hard to estimate, but it’s going to be costly, no question,” Faison said in a telephone interview from Grand Forks. “And we may be turning around and doing it again.”

Meanwhile, Faison and other university officials are trying to convince voters that retaining the nickname would do irreparable harm to North Dakota’s athletic teams. Faison fears it will jeopardize the university’s move from the Great West to the Big Sky Conference on July 1 in all sports but men’s hockey. Faison said he had that impression from a conference call with Big Sky athletic directors last week.

“The reality is, our ability to be in a Division I conference is definitely at risk here,” Faison said, adding, “We cannot survive as a Division I independent in this area.”

[ringneck28]

Got it, thank you. I thought the NC$$ could be held here if they didn't wear Sioux jerseys which the don't? This stuff is getting so old and confusing, I wish it would all go away!

It will all go away once ND Supreme Court rules the law unconstitutional. THat is the one hope we all have. If NDSC does not rule unconstitutional, there is such a misconception of what this vote will do for UND that I am afraid UND can kiss any chance of not having this hurt UND away. I had a talk with some co workers and they had no idea that I would vote against this bill, because I am as big of a UND fan in my work as any. Then I explained how it hurts UND if we vote yes for this. They didn't know what this is really about.

Lets put it in terms UND hockey fans can understand and most out here in western ND don't. If you ever want to see UND play Minnesota again after we leave WCHA, vote no to this.

[Fetch]

This whole Alumni thing is almost like a cult

When & how did graduates become so compelled to spend their $ on their alma maters

They must have professional fundraisers extraordinaire

Universities do everything they can to get their communities to become their sports fans (Face it the Alums. don't stick around) But then those Fans should not have strong opinions & should Love the University - shame on you for thinking Fighting Sioux Fans are not your equals - when in fact they are the vast majority of the ones who pay to see the sporting events - not to mention pay the taxes to build & maintain the facilities

Just more I'm smarter than you arrogance because I'm a alumni & your not

Vote YES to show these snobs who really supports this State & Community

[WYOBISONMAN]

He admitted the name should go years and years ago, maybe after being away from coaching he will show up in ND. If he can find his way up here.

Jackson has been back to Williston on numerous occasions.

[82SiouxGuy]

This whole Alumni thing is almost like a cult

When & how did graduates become so compelled to spend their $ on their alma maters

They must have professional fundraisers extraordinaire

Universities do everything they can to get their communities to become their sports fans (Face it the Alums. don't stick around) But then those Fans should not have strong opinions & should Love the University - shame on you for thinking Fighting Sioux Fans are not your equals - when in fact they are the vast majority of the ones who pay to see the sporting events - not to mention pay the taxes to build & maintain the facilities

Just more I'm smarter than you arrogance because I'm a alumni & your not

Vote YES to show these snobs who really supports this State & Community

Alumni are compelled to spend money on their alma maters because those schools play such an important role in their lives. The transition from childhood and the teenage years to adulthood is very important. College can help through those years. And college often gives people some very important tools to succeed in adulthood. Perhaps you didn't go to college if you don't understand that. Or maybe you weren't listening when Ralph Engelstad gave credit to the University of North Dakota for all of the success he had in his life, and gave credit to the hockey program for giving him the access to the University. Notice the order of credit.

You are wrong if you really believe that alums don't stick around. Thousands of people in the Grand Forks area are UND alums. A lot do leave. A lot stay. And some that leave, come back. Even the ones that leave will come back for events at the school. You may be surprised by the number of people with seasn tickets to UND hockey that are alumni but live in other parts of North Dakota and Minnesota. So it isn't just non-alums buying tickets for events.

You probably haven't been paying attention, but very few buildings on campus are built with tax money. The Ralph was built by an alum. Almost every building on campus was built with donations. They are maintained, in part, by tax money. That is the cost of doing business. (Don't forget that without the other buildings and the school itself you wouldn't have those teams to like.) You might be talking about the Alerus Center. It was built with tax money and is owned by the city of Grand Forks. It is also used for a lot more than UND events.

If you can't figure out why alums are more connected to UND than people that just watch sporting events, you are really out of touch. And since you obviously can't see how the sanctions are going to hurt the athletic department, the teams (that you say you like) and the school itself, than you may be behind help.

[Fetch]

Now research & write something nice about non UND Grad. Sioux Fans who I believe are the vast majority of paying customers & tell the arrogant writers who come on here to cool the rhetoric about us not loving the University.

Hard to love those that have done so much to cut & run away from a fight. When there is still a chance.

This whole thing is now about Fear & Politics - Not about saving the Name & discrediting & mud slinging

You get what you give ........online

[ScottM]

This whole Alumni thing is almost like a cult

When & how did graduates become so compelled to spend their $ on their alma maters

They must have professional fundraisers extraordinaire

Universities do everything they can to get their communities to become their sports fans (Face it the Alums. don't stick around) But then those Fans should not have strong opinions & should Love the University - shame on you for thinking Fighting Sioux Fans are not your equals - when in fact they are the vast majority of the ones who pay to see the sporting events - not to mention pay the taxes to build & maintain the facilities

Just more I'm smarter than you arrogance because I'm a alumni & your not

Vote YES to show these snobs who really supports this State & Community

We get it, you hate the university. Move along now.

[Fetch]

You don't get it & this weak attempt to rebut shows that

but I bet the Devil made you do it

& I do believe this is not a University site or it would have been gone long ago

[PhillySioux]

Fetch,

Yes or no question....

In your opinion, Knowing what is known as of now, is it possible that UND is better served dropping the nickname than retaining it?

[Chewey]

LOL...known uber-liberal Phil Jackson, who can't even admit he is from North Dakota, is on the list? Well I'm on-board now, the nickname must go!

Yes. Phil. He does not even like to acknowledge ties to North Dakota. A white rancher's kid trying to be a Buddhist aught to be offensive to someone.

[gfhockey]

Costed us a home and home with big ten U of Iowa

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/sports/push-to-save-fighting-sioux-name-puts-north-dakota-in-costly-limbo.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2

[ScottM]

Costed us a home and home with big ten U of Iowa

http://www.nytimes.c...gewanted=2&_r=2

But, hey, we can always schedule Alcorn State a few times each season, and maybe Bob's Institute of Bail Bonds and Bartending ...

[gfhockey]

I hear northland tech in east side/trf needs a few games here and there. Bet we could work out a 2 for 1 with them?

[Chewey]

The nickname and logo are not inimical to either UND or UND athletics. Rather, it's NCAA racism, intransigence, imputation of racism to a simple moniker, and arrogance that is the problem. If these alumni, including Phil Jackson who claims to respect native american heritage, were to press the 3 stooges (ND Congressional delegation) and publicly decry the NCAA's behavior and disrespect of native american traditions, it probably would have positive results. To eisegete doom and gloom into the term "Fighting Sioux" is a distortion. The NCAA, not the nickname, is the problem. These same public figures aught to be using their influence to point out how idiotic the NCAA's stance vis-a-vis a nickname with overwhelming support of at least one tribe is.

[82SiouxGuy]

The nickname and logo are not inimical to either UND or UND athletics. Rather, it's NCAA racism, intransigence, imputation of racism to a simple moniker, and arrogance that is the problem. If these alumni, including Phil Jackson who claims to respect native american heritage, were to press the 3 stooges (ND Congressional delegation) and publicly decry the NCAA's behavior and disrespect of native american traditions, it probably would have positive results. To eisegete doom and gloom into the term "Fighting Sioux" is a distortion. The NCAA, not the nickname, is the problem. These same public figures aught to be using their influence to point out how idiotic the NCAA's stance vis-a-vis a nickname with overwhelming support of at least one tribe is.

We get it. The NCAA is the boogieman. It is their fault, not the fault of the nickname.

Here are the facts. The NCAA has a policy against using Native American nicknames and imagery. It is arbitrary and certainly is not fair. At this point in time it is legal and enforcable. The University of North Dakota and the state of North Dakota have agreed in court to follow that policy. Following that policy, continuing to use the nickname will result in the loss of hosting of NCAA playoff games and not being able to use the nickname during said playoffs. It will result in schools refusing to schedule regular season games with UND, possibly going as far as interfering with the relationship just getting started with the Big Sky Conference. As a matter of fact, that loss of scheduled games has already occurred. It is already interferring with the recruitment of athletes to the University of North Dakota. That will continue and possibly increase across all sports. Other sanctions could possibly result from conferences of which UND is or could become a member. I may be missing some current or potential results, but while on sanctions none of them are good.

The Feds aren't coming to the rescue on this issue. It has been an active issue with the NCAA since 2005 and no one has said a word. They aren't jumping in now, it is a lose-lose situation for them. The NCAA is not going to back down from the state of North Dakota. They have already proven that. And they have proven it in many other cases across the country. Continuing to use the nickname is a bad idea as long as the sanctions are in place. The only thing on the horizon that could have a chance at getting rid of the sanctions is the Spirit Lake lawsuit. I don't know if it has a very good chance, and I believe that it is going to take years to get through the courts if it does succeed. People have to let UND drop the nickname now so that the damage of the sanctions is limited, keeping the nickname longer will increase the amount of damage done to the school and the Athletic Department.

[Fetch]

NO

[ScottM]

We get it, you hate fans who are not alums. Move along now.

Don't cry, Dave. My degrees read the "University of North Dakota" and my money goes there. You and Fetch can take the Sioux moniker, and "worship it" as you see fit.