The Big Sky Concern

[The Sicatoka]

Let's not forget about our friends at Denver either, a major geographic outlier in the Sun Belt Conference...............................

Denver being forced out of Sun Belt Conference

Those pesky, pesky facts ...

[Teeder11]

Those pesky, pesky facts ...

And before anyone says "Denver, Shmenver" and throws out the ridiculous "apples and oranges" argument that UND in a much more dominant position than some small liberal arts college out in the mountains ... Denver is almost a mirror image of UND apart from it does not offer football as a varsity sport. Denver's enrollment is 11,000 to UND's 14,700, it has been competing in Division I hockey as long as UND and has as many national championships, it is dominate in NCAA Division I Lacross, too. Its men's basketball team has wins this year against Big Sky's Portland State, Utah State, Wyoming, Boise State, Western Kentucky and also recently beat a Top 20 ranked Middle Tennessee State on ESPN. They are not just some marginal school that fields cellar dweller athletic teams for opponents to kick around.

[Benny Baker]

Alcorn State kept their hostile and abusive name, are facing sanctions, and did not lose conference affiliation. Just saying that these sorts of anecdotal evidence go both ways.

But above all else, conference membership is what concerns me about the nickname controversy, although Terry Wanless eased those concerns somewhat.

[82SiouxGuy]

Alcorn State kept their hostile and abusive name, are facing sanctions, and did not lose conference affiliation. Just saying that these sorts of anecdotal evidence go both ways.

But above all else, conference membership is what concerns me about the nickname controversy, although Terry Wanless eased those concerns somewhat.

Alcorn State has been in the same conference for years. Also, the SWAC does not participate in the NCAA FCS football playoffs. So the sanctions don't affect Alcorn State to the same extent as they would the UND football and women's hockey teams.

[ScottM]

Alcorn State kept their hostile and abusive name, are facing sanctions, and did not lose conference affiliation. Just saying that these sorts of anecdotal evidence go both ways.

Alcorn State is barely the size of a decent community college. It's not as if they had much to lose with regard to conference affiliations since they are already a standing member of the SWAC. On the plus side, if the "moniker at any cost" crowd has its way, perhaps UND can schedule them too.

[fightingsioux4life]

Alcorn State kept their hostile and abusive name, are facing sanctions, and did not lose conference affiliation. Just saying that these sorts of anecdotal evidence go both ways.

But above all else, conference membership is what concerns me about the nickname controversy, although Terry Wanless eased those concerns somewhat.

I am so sick and tired of this Alcorn State garbage being brought up. Alcorn State is NOT a peer institution of UND. Not. Even. Close. They are also so small and insignificant in athletics and have not accomplished much of anything (and probably never will) that sanctions won't have much of an impact one way or the other. This is a pure apples and oranges red herring argument.

[Hawkster]

But above all else, conference membership is what concerns me about the nickname controversy, although Terry Wanless eased those concerns somewhat.

The problem is, Terry Wanless won't be anywhere near the closed room where this vote will take place The guy calling the shots will be the Sac State President and it wouldn't surprise me if the guy has never been to ND I wouldn't take anything for granted if the name is allowed to stay.

[bincitysioux]

You know what the biggest difference to me is between Alcorn St. and UND's situations?

The commissioner of Alcorn's conference never came out publicly and said their membership could be in jeopardy. The commissioner of UND's conference has.

[Benny Baker]

Steve McNair, whoop whoop!

[Cratter]

Alcorn never had a president come out and ask a conference commissioner to come out against the nickname.

[Benny Baker]

UNC-Pembroke is doing fine with their "Braves" nickname!

[Teeder11]

Alcorn never had a president come out and ask a conference commissioner to come out against the nickname.

Neither did UND. Kolpack and the Foolem tried to connect those imaginary dots and failed miserably.

[Teeder11]

UNC-Pembroke is doing fine with their "Braves" nickname!

"UNC Pembroke's athletic teams are known as the Braves. Due to its heritage as an institution founded for the benefit of Native Americans and support from the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina, the school has largely been immune to the ongoing controversies related to Native American-themed nicknames and mascots.

The school is a member of the NCAA's Division II and competes in the Peach Belt Conference, with the exceptions of football, track and field, and wrestling, in which it competes as an independent. The school fields 16 varsity sports teams." UNC-Pembroke Wikipedia entry.

"Doing fine" is a relative condition, besides, I hope our aspirations are a bit higher than a Division II independent.

[Dolphinswin]

Why does everyone keep saying that if UND can't schedule wisconsin and UMN it will be a huge loss for the program? Do you think this isn't going to be a loss for the gophers and badgers also? They lose just as much as UND does in the hockey department by not scheduling one of the top college hockey teams. There are plenty of good quality hockey teams in the new conference. This post is late but I just read through some of the posts that regarded hockey.

[Benny Baker]

"UNC Pembroke's athletic teams are known as the Braves. Due to its heritage as an institution founded for the benefit of Native Americans and support from the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina, the school has largely been immune to the ongoing controversies related to Native American-themed nicknames and mascots.

The school is a member of the NCAA's Division II and competes in the Peach Belt Conference, with the exceptions of football, track and field, and wrestling, in which it competes as an independent. The school fields 16 varsity sports teams." UNC-Pembroke Wikipedia entry.

"Doing fine" is a relative condition, besides, I hope our aspirations are a bit higher than a Division II independent.

Oh of course, silly me for thinking that the NCAA would apply their policy consistently. Seven years later, I'm sure its stance respecting the UNC-Pembroke Braves, University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux, and Florida State Seminoles are going to further its overrall goal of prohibiting such nicknames.

Too bad UND didn’t pick a name similar to the University of Louisiana-Lafeyette Ragin’ Cajuns, University of Pennsylvania Quakers, University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish, or Union Dutchmen.

It’ll be ironic in those Big Sky matchups against Northern Arizona knowing that one of the Lumberjacks’ logos is of a human person.

[82SiouxGuy]

Oh of course, silly me for thinking that the NCAA would apply their policy consistently. Seven years later, I'm sure its stance respecting the UNC-Pembroke Braves, University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux, and Florida State Seminoles are going to further its overrall goal of prohibiting such nicknames.

Too bad UND didn’t pick a name similar to the University of Louisiana-Lafeyette Ragin’ Cajuns, University of Pennsylvania Quakers, University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish, or Union Dutchmen.

It’ll be ironic in those Big Sky matchups against Northern Arizona knowing that one of the Lumberjacks’ logos is of a human person.

As my father taught me when I was a child, life isn't fair. You just have to learn to deal with it, especially if you can't change it. In this situation UND does NOT have the power to change it.

As far as those other names, don't be surprised if they move on more of them at some time in the future.

[Dolphinswin]

Also, the d-1AA isn't anything special, just makes schools feel better about them being D1.

[zonadub]

It’ll be ironic in those Big Sky matchups against Northern Arizona knowing that one of the Lumberjacks’ logos is of a human person.

and the Portland Vikings

[Cratter]

Neither did UND. Kolpack and the Foolem tried to connect those imaginary dots and failed miserably.

Kolpack talked to a commissioner of a conference and wrote this....but I get it you, a "nobody," will "discredit it."

UND asked an athletic conference it once considered joining to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a member until the controversial nickname and logo issue was resolved, according to Summit League Commissioner Tom Douple.

That quote was from a Newspaper! and not a blogger! Who should one believe....you, anonymous poster, or a newspaper reporter?

Its true. Learn to accept it even if you don't like it.

[Cratter]

Why does everyone keep saying that if UND can't schedule wisconsin and UMN it will be a huge loss for the program? Do you think this isn't going to be a loss for the gophers and badgers also? They lose just as much as UND does in the hockey department by not scheduling one of the top college hockey teams. There are plenty of good quality hockey teams in the new conference. This post is late but I just read through some of the posts that regarded hockey.

The Fighting Sioux are college hockey. Anyone that doesn't schedule them are the real losers.

[Cratter]

Oh of course, silly me for thinking that the NCAA would apply their policy consistently. Seven years later, I'm sure its stance respecting the UNC-Pembroke Braves, University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux, and Florida State Seminoles are going to further its overrall goal of prohibiting such nicknames.

Too bad UND didn’t pick a name similar to the University of Louisiana-Lafeyette Ragin’ Cajuns, University of Pennsylvania Quakers, University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish, or Union Dutchmen.

It’ll be ironic in those Big Sky matchups against Northern Arizona knowing that one of the Lumberjacks’ logos is of a human person.

It's a racist policy. The NCAA is only singling out Native Americans!

[iramurphy]

It's a racist policy. The NCAA is only singling out Native Americans!

I agree with you but short of the litigation by the Spirit Lake Tribe they don't seem to care what we think.

[Teeder11]

Kolpack talked to a commissioner of a conference and wrote this....but I get it you, a "nobody," will "discredit it."

That quote was from a Newspaper! and not a blogger! Who should one believe....you, anonymous poster, or a newspaper reporter?

Its true. Learn to accept it even if you don't like it.

You're cute. You make me smile.

Listen, I don't know Tom Douple. Probably a nice enough guy, but I have never been in the same room with him nor do I know him enough to put total and utter faith in what he allegedly said to Jeff Kolpack, who I know only slightly better through my years spent in journalism (I know his brother much better than him.) What I do know is that I have complete trust in Dr. Kelley and Brian Faison, who I can visit and speak with on a daily basis if I I want. Hey, no one is going to win this one. I choose to trust someone I know. Others choose to put faith in a newspaper reporter and a conference commish with an axe to grind against UND. As a former reporter, I can tell you that, unfortunately, we do get things wrong, misquote, misconstrue, misunderstand so-called facts all the time. We also are known to not let the facts get in the way of a good story sometimes. Now, I'm not saying that Jeff did any of that, as I am more inclined to believe that Douple just flat out lied (in his pissed off state following UND's decision to go Big Sky). But again, that's my gut feeling based on who I feel is more deserving of my trust. I don't have proof that Douple lied any more than anyone else has proof that Kelley urged Douple to take a hard stand against the nickname. It's a "he said she said" scenario, and in that case, I will side with the people I know.

You want to match quotes? OK, but I don't know what it proves... it's one person's version of what happened over the other's, and it seems no one was around to corroborate any of it. So it's left up to us amateur internet jockeys to write and revise the history as we see fit. So, in that spirit, here goes:

Statement by University of North Dakota Athletic Director Brian Faison:

"I'm here today to respond to a report that the University of North Dakota "pressured" the Summit League to take stand against the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

The University of North Dakota never asked the Summit League, or its commissioner, to take a stand against the nickname and logo.

In fact, the commissioner of the Summit League stated publicly, on more than one occasion over the past two years, that the university had to resolve the nickname and logo issue before they would consider us for membership. This resolution of the nickname and logo issue was always a precondition for league membership.

My position has always been that we need a resolution. My job was to find the best conference for the University of North Dakota, and that is the Big Sky Conference."

---------

UND spokesman Peter Johnson said Monday and repeated Tuesday that university President Robert Kelley “categorically denies” UND officials ever made such a request to the Summit League.

“False. Not true at all,” Johnson said. “Neither the president or the athletic director or anybody else from UND ever talked to (the Summit League) from that angle. In no way, shape or form did we ask (Douple) to make that an issue.”

[Cratter]

Very well written on your part. You do a great job.

That fargo radio station loves to talk to people about the UND nickname, KFGO?, (Wanless, Fullerton).

Why don't they get Douple on the radio?...or maybe they tried and "No Comment" to me speaks volumes.

Until then, I will always claim, "the UND president came out and asked a conference commissioner to come out against the nickname. "

[82SiouxGuy]

Kolpack talked to a commissioner of a conference and wrote this....but I get it you, a "nobody," will "discredit it."

That quote was from a Newspaper! and not a blogger! Who should one believe....you, anonymous poster, or a newspaper reporter?

Its true. Learn to accept it even if you don't like it.

My problem with that was they didn't actually quote Douple. It was an impression that the reporter got from an individual. No actual allegation. What actually happened could have been very simple and innocent or very incriminating. And Douple wouldn't answer any follow-ups. He also refused interviews on KFGO in Fargo and KNOX in Grand Forks, plus I believe he refused to talk to the Grand Forks Herald. Not enough smoke for me to call it a fire.