Conference Realignments - Take 2

[darell1976]

ORU becomes the 20th team to leave the Summit since UNI was the first...in 1991. 20 years..20 teams. Do the average..who leaves next year?

[dmksioux]

With ORU out of the Summit, perhaps that opens a door for the UND baseball team...if they want to go to the Summit.

[GeauxSioux]

Folks, UND has some housekeeping to get taken care of (moniker fiasco) before it is officially (first conference game, any sport, played) in the Big Sky.

I'd like that taken care of before I start worrying about other schools and conferences.

Agreed. First step is in a few weeks. July 1st, for official membership, can't come soon enough.

[darell1976]

Agreed. First step is in a few weeks. July 1st, for official membership, can't come soon enough.

EXACTLY 250 DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matt]

Why? Because the Summit is becoming the NCC 2.0 that Sica and the often maligned Star2 said it would become.

ORU was the program that one could point to in the Summit and say that the Summit has a school with national recognition and prominence. Losing ORU is big hit to the conference. With the way conferences have been changing over the past 2 years, who else may be leaving the Summit?

I'm not sure that matters as much now as it did at the beginning of the transition. The easier path to the national tournament trumps that IMHO. The big problem that it does present is stability. Douple needs an accurate measure of the commitment level of the remaining schools. For the lukewarm schools, Douple needs a plan which could be implemented the moment say, an Oakland wants to leave.

[darell1976]

I'm not sure that matters as much now as it did at the beginning of the transition. The easier path to the national tournament trumps that IMHO. The big problem that it does present is stability. Douple needs an accurate measure of the commitment level of the remaining schools. For the lukewarm schools, Douple needs a plan which could be implemented the moment say, an Oakland wants to leave.

Some Bison fans think they will get in to the MVC with a MVC all sports thing (meaning SDSU, USD, and WIU would go too), and some are throwing up thinking of Mankato and St. Cloud as possible future members. I know some hate the idea of asking UND to help them get into the Big Sky.

[bincitysioux]

Whats the odds that Western Illinois tries to leave the Summit for the MVC? I would think the MVC would take WIU over both SU's.

The MVC would have no interest in ANY current Summit school. Would hurt their RPI too much. The MVC doesn't give a rip about the MVFC............

[darell1976]

The MVC would have no interest in ANY current Summit school. Would hurt their RPI too much. The MVC doesn't give a rip about the MVFC............

Tell that to the fans with the green and yellow glasses. IMO...UND is looking good!!!!!

[bincitysioux]

Douple needs an accurate measure of the commitment level of the remaining schools.

I think history shows that no Summit member has ever been committed to that conference. Maybe Western Illinois, but that is it. Every other member wishes they were in a different league.

[darell1976]

http://en.wikipedia....e_Summit_League

University of Akron 1990–1992 Mid-American Conference

University at Buffalo 1994–1998 Mid-American

Conference

Centenary College of Louisiana 2003–2011 American Southwest Conference

Central Connecticut State University 1994–1997 Northeast Conference

Chicago State University 1994–2006 Independent (now in Great West) Cleveland State University 1982–1994 Horizon League

Eastern Illinois University 1982–1996 Ohio Valley Conference

University of Illinois at Chicago 1982–1994 Horizon League Northeastern Illinois University 1994–1998 Disbanded sports

Northern Illinois University 1990–1994 Horizon League (now in Mid-American Conference)

University of Northern Iowa 1982–1991 Missouri Valley Conference

Missouri State University 1982–1990 Missouri Valley Conference

Troy University 1994–1997 Sun Belt

University of Wisconsin–Green Bay 1982–1994 Horizon League

University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee 1993–1994 Horizon League

Valparaiso University 1982–2007 Horizon League

Wright State University 1991–1994 Horizon League

Youngstown State University 1992–2001 Horizon League

Teams that have left the Summit (SUU is leaving next year). ORU..we'll see.

[johnson]

I think history shows that no Summit member has ever been committed to that conference. Maybe Western Illinois, but that is it. Every other member wishes they were in a different league.

Exactly, every school looks at it as a good place to get your feet wet before moving on to better opportunities. I disagree with a few who are saying that NDSU tried to distance themselves from the NCC. We have discussed on this board before that an attempt was made to move the whole conference up. I don't disagree that the move wouldn't have worked but many options were discussed before the SU's left. Bringing in USD and Omaha helps keep the League as stable as it can. They are pulling the conference footprint closer and have a history with a few schools who are already in the league. With ORU leaving it hurts but it is far from a death blow. It has been mentioned that the path to the NCAA's just got a little easier for the time being and as the schools get themselves better established in DI better opportunities will probably surface. With all the moving around going on right now I wouldn't be surprised if more conferences start looking to expand in the future once the big boys settle down and make their moves. ORU stuck with this League for years through all the changing that has occurred and I just don't see anyone hitting the panic button anytime soon because of their departure. If schools were leaving and none were being replaced then I would start to worry. Some schools may not be exactly what you want but I feel the majority of them are committed to their athletic departments and things will continue on just like they always have in the ever changing Summit.

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/338238/

In all probability, the Summit League will be losing a member today and North Dakota State will be losing an opponent

North Dakota State athletic director Gene Taylor said he could not comment on Oral Roberts’ status in the Summit League, but did say the Eagles were not represented at a meeting of conference athletic director’s in Chicago on Monday.

[star2city]

I'm not sure that matters as much now as it did at the beginning of the transition. The easier path to the national tournament trumps that IMHO. The big problem that it does present is stability. Douple needs an accurate measure of the commitment level of the remaining schools. For the lukewarm schools, Douple needs a plan which could be implemented the moment say, an Oakland wants to leave.

All the Summit schools have lukewarm commitment: all want into a better basketball conference. The one exception may be WIU, but only because it is a basket case in basketball. The Summit will forever be a DII move-up league, where new move-ups replace those gone on to greener pastures. The problem is if the schools move on too fast, there won't be seven full-NCAA members to go with all the DII schools transitioning. Since no Horizon or OVC or Sunbelt school would ever move to the Summit, Douple's emergency plan almost has to be what's left of the Great West (Chicago St, UTPA, HBU, NJIT, UVU) plus maybe Longwood. Get to 12 members fast, hold on tight and pray the Horizon doesn't rob you blind@!

Douple will want to add another DII transition school, but it would almost have to come from the Great Lakes Valley Conference, not from the GLIAC, MIAA, or NSIC. The GLIAC and MIAA would have some very capable schools, but none would consider the Summit unless the Summit added football. NDSU, SDSU, and WIU will prevent the Summit from adding football (they value the MVFC too much). When the Summit is that dysfunctional that its own members would demand it sponsor football for its own future, that league has major problems.

[darell1976]

http://waynenelson.areavoices.com/tag/big-sky-conference/

Revenue sharing is another benefit for UND's move to the Big Sky. The league will provide a revenue sharing bonus of about $135,000 per athletic team.

I never knew this about the Big Sky...I bet they use this money for travel.

[darell1976]

http://www.bloggingthebracket.com/20...ne-else-leaves

Under this new rule, to hold an auto bid to the tournament, a Division I conference must have seven men's basketball playing members with no continuity of membership requirements. Six of those schools must conduct conference play in five or more other sports.

. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...+Summit+League

UNO isn't full members until 2015....Summit will be down to 8 teams starting in 2012 as its now offical ORU is now off to the Southland starting next season.

[Matt]

All the Summit schools have lukewarm commitment: all want into a better basketball conference. The one exception may be WIU, but only because it is a basket case in basketball. The Summit will forever be a DII move-up league, where new move-ups replace those gone on to greener pastures. The problem is if the schools move on too fast, there won't be seven full-NCAA members to go with all the DII schools transitioning. Since no Horizon or OVC or Sunbelt school would ever move to the Summit, Douple's emergency plan almost has to be what's left of the Great West (Chicago St, UTPA, HBU, NJIT, UVU) plus maybe Longwood. Get to 12 members fast, hold on tight and pray the Horizon doesn't rob you blind@!

Douple will want to add another DII transition school, but it would almost have to come from the Great Lakes Valley Conference, not from the GLIAC, MIAA, or NSIC. The GLIAC and MIAA would have some very capable schools, but none would consider the Summit unless the Summit added football. NDSU, SDSU, and WIU will prevent the Summit from adding football (they value the MVFC too much). When the Summit is that dysfunctional that its own members would demand it sponsor football for its own future, that league has major problems.

In this case, "commitment level" for Douple would have to be a probability that an offer from another league is coming and/or a potential timeframe. The dilemma for Douple then becomes does he reach out proactively to schools he'd rather not get in bed with, or wait until his hand is forced?

[darell1976]

In this case, "commitment level" for Douple would have to be a probability that an offer from another league is coming and/or a potential timeframe. The dilemma for Douple then becomes does he reach out proactively to schools he'd rather not get in bed with, or wait until his hand is forced?

Or let his members do his dirty work (ex. Gene Taylor talking to UND).

[SIOUXFAN97]

somewhere in fargo gene taylor keeps reaching for that phone to make that call but pride and the thought of that phone call from chapman if he does keeps him from going through with it...

although i like the thought of the bison staying in the ncc 2.0 the thought of the bsc adding idaho, ndsu, and maybe some like the univeristy of san diego or some other cali schools would be nice?

[JohnboyND7]

The MVC would have no interest in ANY current Summit school. Would hurt their RPI too much. The MVC doesn't give a rip about the MVFC............

What if the MVFC schools tell the MVC that all the Summit teams could leave the MVFC which would put the MVC-football schools in a lot of trouble?

Say NDSU, USD, SDSU tell the MVFC that they could possibly go to the Big Sky(I'd hate playing in the Sky, but it'd be an option) and that could get UNI, SIU, ISU-R, ISU-B, and Missouri St. into some trouble as far as football. Perhaps those members complain enough, which could get NDSU, SDSU, and USD into the MVC for all sports. Yeah, it'd hurt their RPI, at the very least temporarily, but those are 5 teams right there, who would probably like their football teams to be in stable situations. That'd put pressure on the other schools to accept the Dakota 3 and perhaps Western Ill.

Am I dreaming? Maybe, I don't really know all the work and lobbying that would have to go into that, but at least I'm thinking here!

That said, I think the Summit will be fine.

[darell1976]

What if the MVFC schools tell the MVC that all the Summit teams could leave the MVFC which would put the MVC-football schools in a lot of trouble?

Say NDSU, USD, SDSU tell the MVFC that they could possibly go to the Big Sky(I'd hate playing in the Sky, but it'd be an option) and that could get UNI, SIU, ISU-R, ISU-B, and Missouri St. into some trouble as far as football. Perhaps those members complain enough, which could get NDSU, SDSU, and USD into the MVC for all sports. Yeah, it'd hurt their RPI, at the very least temporarily, but those are 5 teams right there, who would probably like their football teams to be in stable situations. That'd put pressure on the other schools to accept the Dakota 3 and perhaps Western Ill.

Am I dreaming? Maybe, I don't really know all the work and lobbying that would have to go into that, but at least I'm thinking here!

That said, I think the Summit will be fine.

With 8 members until 2015...lose 2 more and no more AQ. Better hope Oakland, IUPUI or IPFW stays put for 4 years. Or else get on the phone with former NCC members Mankato and St. Cloud.

[bincitysioux]

What if the MVFC schools tell the MVC that all the Summit teams could leave the MVFC which would put the MVC-football schools in a lot of trouble?

Say NDSU, USD, SDSU tell the MVFC that they could possibly go to the Big Sky(I'd hate playing in the Sky, but it'd be an option) and that could get UNI, SIU, ISU-R, ISU-B, and Missouri St. into some trouble as far as football. Perhaps those members complain enough, which could get NDSU, SDSU, and USD into the MVC for all sports. Yeah, it'd hurt their RPI, at the very least temporarily, but those are 5 teams right there, who would probably like their football teams to be in stable situations. That'd put pressure on the other schools to accept the Dakota 3 and perhaps Western Ill.

Am I dreaming? Maybe, I don't really know all the work and lobbying that would have to go into that, but at least I'm thinking here!

That said, I think the Summit will be fine.

Like I said, the MVC doesn't give a rip about the MVFC. The MVC is generally a top 10 basketball conference, these days even considered a high-major as far as that sport is concerned rather than a mid major. Protecting their status in basketball comes before anything else. Even the very remote threat of the demise of the MVFC wouldn't force that conference to consider lowering their standing in the college basketball world one bit. My guess is not even football playing members like UNI or SIU would go to bat for getting the Dakota Big 3 into the MVC, even if their football league was at stake. Someday down the road, the Dakota Big 3 may get into the MVC, but when/if they do, it won't look anything like the current MVC.

The Summit will continue to exist for years to come. There will be plenty of independents, DII move-ups, and Great West teams that would jump at the chance to join if the Summit needs members in the future to ensure their viability. I think they'll be just fine staying at 9 until the right school comes along. A little nervousness will be justified when or if the Horizon starts losing members................

[Cratter]

But it least it doesn't have 20 former members...................

And it has only been around since the 80's. Everyone wants out of the Summit. I think they should rename it the Great West Conference . NDSU fans have wet dreams over the MVC (but who wouldn't?)

If I am a NDSU I hate the fact that Omaha is in the summit. They are the next team that would probably get into the MVC. Large city. Current rivalry with Creighton. Basketball is there main sport like other MVC schools.

Come on NDSU. Let's put our pasts aside and come to the Sky. We welcome and want you. Trade the bunnies and jacks for the Griz and 'Cats.

[zonadub]

And it has only been around since the 80's. Everyone wants out of the Summit. NDSU fans have wet dreams over the MVC (but who wouldn't?)

If I am a NDSU I hate the fact that Omaha is in the summit. They are the next team that would probably get into the MVC. Large city. Current rivalry with Creighton. Basketball is there main sport like other MVC schools.

Come on NDSU. Let's put our pasts aside and come to the Sky. We welcome and want you. Trade the bunnies and jacks for the Griz and 'Cats.

and we have seen that the Big Sky is capable of making a decision and moving when the AD's & Presidents feel it is the right move to make

[star2city]

In this case, "commitment level" for Douple would have to be a probability that an offer from another league is coming and/or a potential timeframe. The dilemma for Douple then becomes does he reach out proactively to schools he'd rather not get in bed with, or wait until his hand is forced?

With West Virginia joining the Big 12, the Big East schools keep getting picked off. There's talk the Big 12 may add Louisville and Cincinnati to get back to 12. If that happens, the Big East may effectively split just by the football teams pealing off. If the Big East has to start adding basketball schools from the Horizon and/or Atlantic 10, the Summit membership could really be pummeled.

With some Great West schools available in an emergency, the Summit probably invites one more DII school. If it needs more numbers because of the Big East dominoes, then it adds Great West schools. It looks like Houston Baptist will be the next invite to the Southland, so that would leave UVU, UTPA, Chicago St, and NJIT as emergency backups.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/ncaa_football/111025-southland-conference-to-visit-houston-baptist-university

Sounds like the Oakland and IUPUI Presidents are in charge of the search. Bellarmine (Louisville) supposedly wants a DI invite, and hasn't been able to get one from the OVC or Atlantic Sun.

[star2city]

And it has only been around since the 80's. Everyone wants out of the Summit. I think they should rename it the Great West Conference . NDSU fans have wet dreams over the MVC (but who wouldn't?)

If I am a NDSU I hate the fact that Omaha is in the summit. They are the next team that would probably get into the MVC. Large city. Current rivalry with Creighton. Basketball is there main sport like other MVC schools.

UNO isn't getting into the MVC as long as Creighton is there.

Come on NDSU. Let's put our pasts aside and come to the Sky. We welcome and want you. Trade the bunnies and jacks for the Griz and 'Cats.

The Big Sky will be waiting on Idaho for at least another year. If Idaho says "no", NDSU might be asked.