SiouxVolley Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 They'll have 13 for FB and BB. They lose W Ky this year (lost FIU, FAU, Mid Tn, Tx before) and will gain the following FCS teams: App St Ga St Ga S JMU Mo St Idaho and NMSU are affiliates in football and UALR and UTA play non-football sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 They'll have 13 for FB and BB. They lose W Ky this year (lost FIU, FAU, Mid Tn, Tx before) and will gain the following FCS teams: App St Ga St Ga S JMU Mo St Idaho and NMSU are affiliates in football and UALR and UTA play non-football sports. They are the Great West of the FBS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I explained this a billion times but some people are so dumb to listen. The Sun Belt didn't want the MVC or CAA merging with the WAC. Nor does it want Idaho as a permanent partner. So it agreed to Idaho's plan to make the Big Sky FBS down the road and gains a couple million in fees from the Big Sky. The Sun Belt doesn't have to deal with another FBS league in its backyard. Ergo: Mo St, James Madison, Delaware, E Kentucky eastern FCS teams have to bargain with the Sun Belt to go FBS. It's a brilliant deal for Idaho to get a regional FBS league and the Sun Belt to avoid a another regional league. There will be at least 8 Big Sky FBS teams, maybe as much as 14. It makes sense for the Big Sky because they know FCS is dying. When the Big Sky goes FBS, the FCS will be truly a niche regional sport and not national. For Bison fans, I can understand the grief that this will cause them. How do you equate your speculation of 8-14 Big Sky teams joining the Sunbelt with . . . "The Big Sky is Going FBS"?? Sorry, but if 8-14 Big Sky teams join the Sunbelt, it will be . . . "The Big Sky is Dropping Football". Sorry, but all your teams joining another conference does nothing for the Big Sky, it just eliminates football in the conf. I equate this situation to say . . . 6 teams from the the DII NSIC joining a DI conference, say the Summit League. After they would be accepted by the Summit League and completed their DI transition period, they would be DI. Could these six DI teams then leave the Summit league to form their own DI conference which they would call the NSIC?? No, they could not. If they left the Summit league, they would need to join an existing conference. This is why the NCAA does not allow large groups of teams from the same conference just merge into another league at a higher level to lift themselves up. They require each team to transition on their own merits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 How do you equate your speculation of 8-14 Big Sky teams joining the Sunbelt with . . . "The Big Sky is Going FBS"?? Sorry, but if 8-14 Big Sky teams join the Sunbelt, it will be . . . "The Big Sky is Dropping Football". Sorry, but all your teams joining another conference does nothing for the Big Sky, it just eliminates football in the conf. I equate this situation to say . . . 6 teams from the the DII NSIC joining a DI conference, say the Summit League. After they would be accepted by the Summit League and completed their DI transition period, they would be DI. Could these six DI teams then leave the Summit league to form their own DI conference which they would call the NSIC?? No, they could not. If they left the Summit league, they would need to join an existing conference. This is why the NCAA does not allow large groups of teams from the same conference just merge into another league at a higher level to lift themselves up. They require each team to transition on their own merits. I do believe conferences have X number of years to reestablish themselves as "X sport conferences." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I do believe conferences have X number of years to reestablish themselves as "X sport conferences." If the 14 teams in the Big Sky join the Sunbelt, that does nothing to establish the BSC as an FBS League, nothing. It's a zero sum game. The BSC does not gain FBS status by its teams playing in the Sunbelt. Only the NCAA and FBS leaders can establish a new conf. The WAC could have been used for that purpose, but the ship has sailed. WAC FB be dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I explained this a billion times but some people are so dumb to listen. The Sun Belt didn't want the MVC or CAA merging with the WAC. Nor does it want Idaho as a permanent partner. So it agreed to Idaho's plan to make the Big Sky FBS down the road and gains a couple million in fees from the Big Sky. The Sun Belt doesn't have to deal with another FBS league in its backyard. Ergo: Mo St, James Madison, Delaware, E Kentucky eastern FCS teams have to bargain with the Sun Belt to go FBS. It's a brilliant deal for Idaho to get a regional FBS league and the Sun Belt to avoid a another regional league. There will be at least 8 Big Sky FBS teams, maybe as much as 14. It makes sense for the Big Sky because they know FCS is dying. When the Big Sky goes FBS, the FCS will be truly a niche regional sport and not national. For Bison fans, I can understand the grief that this will cause them. "The Sunbelt agreed to make the Big Sky FBS"? Ha, ha, ha . . . You have a vivid imagination. The Sunbelt has no such authority . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/?p=90375 I’ll leave this post with this thought. If Missouri State does decide to leave, that brings the Missouri Valley Football Conference back to 9 teams. On one had you can return to a format where each team plays everybody. On another hand, there could be a possibility that if Mo State is gone, is it inconceivable to think that Patty Viverito and Tom Douple get on the same page and talk to UND? The Summit League would love to get to an even number and that would get them 10. I know Bison fans you can freak out know, but that’s why it’s a blog. Enjoy Putting bad blood (Douple-Kelley) aside. If UND could get into the MVFC and Summit League at the same time effective immediately after MSU bolts for the Sun Belt, should UND accept or stay in the Big Sky? IMO there are so many pros and cons to the Big Sky compared to the MVFC/SL that's its tough to decide. Pros to moving: Travel Conference Tournament in the same city (easier to plan for that week) Rivals Cons to moving: No tv deal like watchbigsky.com (every game available) home court for regular season champs during tournaments and the big one.....Stability. To elaborate on the last one (stability), the MVFC is stable, the Summit has always been a revolving door, but if you have a solid core of 5 UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, and Omaha that would be a good core....HOWEVER, with schools switching conferences who says that Omaha, SDSU wouldn't bolt to the MVC in a heartbeat leaving the rest behind. Denver has a history of switching so they aren't stable, the same with Oral Roberts. WIU is stable, IPFW, IUPUI could be major question marks, could be lured away by a more eastern conference. Just my opinion but its something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 You make a lot of good points. I think the 4 Dakota schools together in the Big Sky is the best overall option after weighing all the positives and negatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/?p=90375 Putting bad blood (Douple-Kelley) aside. If UND could get into the MVFC and Summit League at the same time effective immediately after MSU bolts for the Sun Belt, should UND accept or stay in the Big Sky? IMO there are so many pros and cons to the Big Sky compared to the MVFC/SL that's its tough to decide. Pros to moving: Travel Conference Tournament in the same city (easier to plan for that week) Rivals Cons to moving: No tv deal like watchbigsky.com (every game available) home court for regular season champs during tournaments and the big one.....Stability. To elaborate on the last one (stability), the MVFC is stable, the Summit has always been a revolving door, but if you have a solid core of 5 UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, and Omaha that would be a good core....HOWEVER, with schools switching conferences who says that Omaha, SDSU wouldn't bolt to the MVC in a heartbeat leaving the rest behind. Denver has a history of switching so they aren't stable, the same with Oral Roberts. WIU is stable, IPFW, IUPUI could be major question marks, could be lured away by a more eastern conference. Just my opinion but its something to think about. A move like that would be a major step backwards for North Dakota, no doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 A move like that would be a major step backwards for North Dakota, no doubt about it. In what sport? SL = BSC (1 bid leagues) BSC= MVFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 In every sport. In academics. In profile. In desireability. Big Sky trumps in every aspect. Not even close. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 In every sport. In academics. In profile. In desireability. Big Sky trumps in every aspect. Not even close. Academics?? What does that have to do with sports? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersioux Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Put me in the category that if the summit league/mvfc opportunity comes up that we should take it. Regular Sioux/bison fb games plus more games against old rivals. Let's be honest the only way we play NDSU in fb is if were in the same conference...that fb game will energize our fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Put me in the category that if the summit league/mvfc opportunity comes up that we should take it. Regular Sioux/bison fb games plus more games against old rivals. Let's be honest the only way we play NDSU in fb is if were in the same conference...that fb game will energize our fan base. I would like to point out travel. How many UND fans could travel to Vermillion, Fargo, Brookings compared to Sacramento, Cheney, and Flagstaff. There are beautiful locations throughout the Big Sky footprint, but getting there is a problem for most fans unless you live pretty close to those locations. Living in Fargo I would love to have UND in the same conference as NDSU, SDSU, and USD, plus its just a couple hour drive to Brookings and another couple hours to Vermillion. 4 hours west of Fargo gets me to Dickinson. So obviously travel is a huge plus to joining the rest of the Dakota 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXFAN97 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I would like to point out travel. How many UND fans could travel to Vermillion, Fargo, Brookings compared to Sacramento, Cheney, and Flagstaff. There are beautiful locations throughout the Big Sky footprint, but getting there is a problem for most fans unless you live pretty close to those locations. Living in Fargo I would love to have UND in the same conference as NDSU, SDSU, and USD, plus its just a couple hour drive to Brookings and another couple hours to Vermillion. 4 hours west of Fargo gets me to Dickinson. So obviously travel is a huge plus to joining the rest of the Dakota 3. three words darell.....big. sky. app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 three words darell.....big. sky. app. You mean there is no Summit League app? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I would like to point out travel. How many UND fans could travel to Vermillion, Fargo, Brookings compared to Sacramento, Cheney, and Flagstaff. There are beautiful locations throughout the Big Sky footprint, but getting there is a problem for most fans unless you live pretty close to those locations. Living in Fargo I would love to have UND in the same conference as NDSU, SDSU, and USD, plus its just a couple hour drive to Brookings and another couple hours to Vermillion. 4 hours west of Fargo gets me to Dickinson. So obviously travel is a huge plus to joining the rest of the Dakota 3. How often do you get up to Grand Forks for a game? A Big Sky school leaving for the Summit would be like a Big Ten school leaving for the MAC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I would like to point out travel. How many UND fans could travel to Vermillion, Fargo, Brookings compared to Sacramento, Cheney, and Flagstaff. There are beautiful locations throughout the Big Sky footprint, but getting there is a problem for most fans unless you live pretty close to those locations. Living in Fargo I would love to have UND in the same conference as NDSU, SDSU, and USD, plus its just a couple hour drive to Brookings and another couple hours to Vermillion. 4 hours west of Fargo gets me to Dickinson. So obviously travel is a huge plus to joining the rest of the Dakota 3. How often do you drive up to Grand Forks to watch UND at home? Now you are going to drive even further? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 How often do you get up to Grand Forks for a game? A Big Sky school leaving for the Summit would be like a Big Ten school leaving for the MAC. Lol wut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 How often do you get up to Grand Forks for a game? A Big Sky school leaving for the Summit would be like a Big Ten school leaving for the MAC. With my kids getting older it's easier to get to a game. I used to attend 2-3 football games and 1-2 hockey games, but with my kids older I can take them on road trips that I can get to and back to Fargo in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 How often do you drive up to Grand Forks to watch UND at home? Now you are going to drive even further? See above post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 How often do you get up to Grand Forks for a game? A Big Sky school leaving for the Summit would be like a Big Ten school leaving for the MAC. I just don't see the big deal on moving to the SL if the revolving door stops over there. NDSU, SDSU, Oral Roberts are basketball powerhouses of the SL, we are not a powerhouse in the Big Sky unless the women's teams (volleyball and bb) repeat. The men have no BSC titles (regular or tournament) we are the same as Omaha..oh wait we lost to them in the CIT that's one more win for them than us in that tournament. Saying the BSC is like the Big 10 and the SL is like the MAC is funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Darell for me it is all about politics and stability. The Summit League/MVFC/MVC have this extremely strange co-dependency relationship. Take a look at it: MVC - now that Creighton left, Wichita St is rumored to be looking for greener pastures. It is also rumored that Missouri St is looking to move. If those two pieces go, who are the next schools to leave. Plus who do you back-fill with, according to other posters. The MVC has some quasi pulic to private ratio and a general dislike toward football schools. I would guess that some current SL basketball only schools would be candidates - Denver and Omaha would be the leading contenders from the SL based on the previous round of changes after Creighton left. MVFC - is simply a marketing branch of the MVC. They will do what the MVC wants. Plus you have MSU looking to leave and you always have the rumors about Youngstown St. Summit League - has two schools on the east side that are known to be looking for a new home (Fort Wayne and Indy). They can't add a school with football unless they get acceptance from MVFC. You have Oral Roberts which will leave in a moments notice. They only returned after the Southland lost several of its schools. Denver got a strong look and it was rumored that they would have been a very strong candidate for MVC if they would have added sports, which Denver has said no to at this time. If DU get a different AD that could change very quickly. Plus If MSU goes that leaves the SL with 4 football schools and MVC with 4 football schools (note did not count Drake PL team). Who owns and controls the MVFC? There is no real unity. What are the relationships with the Dakota schools - is it SDSU and NDSU or is it SDSU and USD or is it all three. The Big Sky appears to be happy with UND. They are adding Idaho this year which is a plus. I am fine with the Big Sky. Plus the upper Midwest schools need to get together and get it figured out - yes, I am talking about Montana, Montana St, Idaho, UND, NDSU, USD and SDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Darell for me it is all about politics and stability. The Summit League/MVFC/MVC have this extremely strange co-dependency relationship. Take a look at it: MVC - now that Creighton left, Wichita St is rumored to be looking for greener pastures. It is also rumored that Missouri St is looking to move. If those two pieces go, who are the next to schools to leave. Plus who do you back-fill with, according to other posters. The MVC has some quasi pulic to private ratio and a general dislike toward football schools. I would guess that some current SL basketball only schools would be candidates - Denver and Omaha would be the leading contenders from the SL based on the previous round of changes after Creighton left. MVFC - is simply a marketing branch of the MVC. They will do what the MVC wants. Plus you have MSU looking to leave and you always have the rumors about Youngstown St. Summit League - has two schools on the east side that are known to be looking for a new home (Fort Wayne and Indy). They can't add a school with football unless they get acceptance from MVFC. You have Oral Roberts which will leave in a moments notice. They only returned after the Southland lost several of its schools. Denver got a strong look and it was rumored that they would have been a very strong candidate for MVC if they would have added sports, which Denver has said no to at this time. If DU get a different AD that could change very quickly. Plus If MSU goes that leaves the SL with 4 football schools and MVC with 4 football schools (note did not count Drake PL team). Who owns and controls the MVFC? There is no real unity. What are the relationships with the Dakota schools - is it SDSU and NDSU or is it SDSU and USD or is it all three. The Big Sky appears to be happy with UND. They are adding Idaho this year which is a plus. I am fine with the Big Sky. Plus the upper Midwest schools need to get together and get it figured out - yes, I am talking about Montana, Montana St, Idaho, UND, NDSU, USD and SDSU. I agree it's all about stability, that is why I am not fully towards the SL, it's a revolving door of a conference. Other than that I wouldn't have a problem being in the same conference as the other Dakota schools if they were a solid core that stayed put in that conference like Western Illinois. I think more teams will bolt and maybe the other 3 will be looking at the BSC if one or two gets an invite to the MVC and leaves "A" Dakota school alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Lol wut Got one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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