The Sicatoka Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 ... I see nothing inherently wrong with lust ... I assume you extend the way you see lust* to the "Gordon Gekko" type folks on Wall Street too. *most people see that word (lust) only in a sexual context, but at it's core it's an overmastering desire or craving for something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runninwiththedogs Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I assume you extend the way you see lust* to the "Gordon Gekko" type folks on Wall Street too. *most people see that word (lust) only in a sexual context, but at it's core it's an overmastering desire or craving for something Some might consider me part of that whole Wall Street machine, considering what my profession is, but that's a discussion for another day. Let's try to stay within the scope of the topic and the context in which Rocco used the word. There's enough here without going into a discussion of semantics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I sense a thread shutdown coming, I put it at 2 days. Over/Under bets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckysieve Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Grimaldi is obviously allowed to his opinion but he comes off being judgemental more than anything. It certainly wont help dispel the stereotype that religious people tend to be the most judgemental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Who the hell care if this guy is a Christian? He has his beliefs and isn't bothering anyone. He would like people to behave in a different manner. So what? He has Christian beliefs. So what? Why does anyone get their grundies or pantaloons in a bundle as if this young man pissed in your cornflakes? If this kid is wrong and there is no God who does he hurt? If he is right then maybe we should pay attention. Either way he is here to play hockey and if you don't wish to hang with him then don't. If you don't want to read his tweets or whatever the hell they are called, then don't. If you try and screw with this kid you will likely have to deal with Ben Blood and his teammates cuz they will protect him. The morons who commented on the blog included in the intial post are people I hope don't attend UND and I wouldn't want anything to do with. I wouldn't hire people like that and I would not tolerate their belligerent behavior. If I get tired of this guy and his Christian beliefs then I can move on but I can respect his opinion and he seems to have the guts to stand up for his beliefs. I would rather go to war with this kid than those with the foul mouths who need a twelve pack and all their buddies with them before they will stand up for what they think they believe in. He isn't the first UND hockey player with Christian beliefs and standards and he won't be the last. Some of those guys are guys you wouldn't want to meet in an alley. Go Sioux. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runninwiththedogs Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Who the hell care if this guy is a Christian? He has his beliefs and isn't bothering anyone. He would like people to behave in a different manner. So what? He has Christian beliefs. So what? Why does anyone get their grundies or pantaloons in a bundle as if this young man pissed in your cornflakes? If this kid is wrong and there is no God who does he hurt? If he is right then maybe we should pay attention. Either way he is here to play hockey and if you don't wish to hang with him then don't. If you don't want to read his tweets or whatever the hell they are called, then don't. If you try and screw with this kid you will likely have to deal with Ben Blood and his teammates cuz they will protect him. The morons who commented on the blog included in the intial post are people I hope don't attend UND and I wouldn't want anything to do with. I wouldn't hire people like that and I would not tolerate their belligerent behavior. If I get tired of this guy and his Christian beliefs then I can move on but I can respect his opinion and he seems to have the guts to stand up for his beliefs. I would rather go to war with this kid than those with the foul mouths who need a twelve pack and all their buddies with them before they will stand up for what they think they believe in. He isn't the first UND hockey player with Christian beliefs and standards and he won't be the last. Some of those guys are guys you wouldn't want to meet in an alley. Go Sioux. Yes, Ben Blood is on his way to my house to hurt me. Just because someone stands up for his/her beliefs, doesn't mean those beliefs are not harmful to others. His view of women and their role on earth is harmful to women. I see nothing wrong with his love of God and his tweets in praise of Jesus. I'm sorry if you can't see the difference between Christian beliefs and the misogynistic crap he spouted the other night, then I'm afraid we can't have a conversation. I can respect someone who stands true to their love and faith in Jesus Christ. I can neither respect nor defend Rocco's sexism. Christianity and sexism are not synonymous. There are plenty of believers in Christ who would never, ever act like men were superior to and in charge of women. It doesn't take guts at all to say something on Twitter, then disappear and avoid any sort of dialogue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
802Sioux Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I long ago got over the idea that I will agree with everyone on a sports team. Everyone has a right to say what they want. However, Grimaldi is obviously putting this out there. It's open tweet not closed. I don't see any thing wrong with responding to a publicly stated idea in a public form discussing the issue. Ideas have consequence. If I disagree with one I think it's good to present the opposing view. If not the idea; stands unchallenged and it looks like everyone believes the same things. In this instance I reject the idea that others have the right to dictate what women should wear. Societies that try to strictly control female sexuality end up deeply messed up. I also reject that the male gender should be in charge. I think his ideas are harmful. That being said his job here is to play hockey and none of that will stop me from watching the Sioux play hockey. I just think he's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I can neither respect nor defend Rocco's sexism. Great. Then don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burd Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 God DID put US in charge. Genesis, Chapter 9: God's Covenant With Noah. If that's true, then why do I have to rake leaves on Saturday instead of golfing? And why do I get in trouble if I pee off the deck? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Who knew "Jesus Camp" was a recruiting video? I think the team is going to take care of this real quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 If that's true, then why do I have to rake leaves on Saturday instead of golfing? And why do I get in trouble if I pee off the deck? Probably the same reason you end up sleeping on the sofa if you get out of line ... women rule the roost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Yes, Ben Blood is on his way to my house to hurt me. Just because someone stands up for his/her beliefs, doesn't mean those beliefs are not harmful to others. His view of women and their role on earth is harmful to women. I see nothing wrong with his love of God and his tweets in praise of Jesus. I'm sorry if you can't see the difference between Christian beliefs and the misogynistic crap he spouted the other night, then I'm afraid we can't have a conversation. I can respect someone who stands true to their love and faith in Jesus Christ. I can neither respect nor defend Rocco's sexism. Christianity and sexism are not synonymous. There are plenty of believers in Christ who would never, ever act like men were superior to and in charge of women. It doesn't take guts at all to say something on Twitter, then disappear and avoid any sort of dialogue. Did you read the replies on that blog with the gay slurs, degrading comments about sluts and getting laid and how he shouldn't even be a hockey player? ? That is what I referred to. I assume you are a woman and if the worst thing is some 18 year old who believes that men and women should act differently then your life will be pretty good. He isn't dictating anything to anyone and I suspect he will treat women and girls with respect. I don't know what his beliefs are about what the role of women vs men on earth is but I suspect like you and I he will learn with experience life isn't so simple. I don't think his seemingly narrow view of who is in charge is going to cause my wife or daughters any harm, they would laugh and ignore him. You might consider doing the same. There are other windmills to chase more worthy than an 18 y/o kid who is entering college with an opinion of how people dress and act. Ben Blood and his teammates will likely not be coming to your house and that is an example of taking a comment way past its meaning. Don't sweat the little things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think I will judge him by what he does on the ice. The rest of it is his own personal business. Christ (no pun intended), leave him alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota fairways Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 ... No one put men in charge of the earth. Evolution created sexual reproduction and two distinct sexes in species that reproduce in that way. Let's stick to facts. ... Trying (but probably failing) not to get too deep into this discussion with you: during Biblical times, men were, indeed, the head of the family and held responsible for any and everything done by members of their families. If Grimaldi is speaking in this context, his references are correct. As recently as the generation that fought in WWII, men were heads of the family and the general consensus was that men were in charge, whether you believe that today or not. Gender equity is a relatively recent phenomenon. As for evolution creating sexual reproduction, I respectfully disagree with you and stand on the side of the fence that God gave us sexual reproduction, not evolution. As for the overall message in his comments, good for him! What is wrong with a young man today having moral fortitude and being willing to stand up and say so? The world can definitely use more people like this gentleman and if there were, maybe we would not be ashamed to admit who is in charge. I think his message is more (to both women and men): take responsibility for your actions and stop blaming everyone else for your choices. Why would a position such as this be wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upper Deck Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think I will judge him by what he does on the ice. The rest of it is his own personal business. Christ (no pun intended), leave him alone. I agree. Unless a player's behavior: 1) effects the team on the ice, or 2) effects the team off the ice, I really don't care what his religious beliefs are or what he does on his own time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xI Hammer Ix Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Yes, Ben Blood is on his way to my house to hurt me. Just because someone stands up for his/her beliefs, doesn't mean those beliefs are not harmful to others. His view of women and their role on earth is harmful to women. I see nothing wrong with his love of God and his tweets in praise of Jesus. I'm sorry if you can't see the difference between Christian beliefs and the misogynistic crap he spouted the other night, then I'm afraid we can't have a conversation. I can respect someone who stands true to their love and faith in Jesus Christ. I can neither respect nor defend Rocco's sexism. Christianity and sexism are not synonymous. There are plenty of believers in Christ who would never, ever act like men were superior to and in charge of women. It doesn't take guts at all to say something on Twitter, then disappear and avoid any sort of dialogue. RWD I'm not picking on you specifically. But sexism is very prevalent throughout the bible. "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9) "When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12) "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2) "But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5) "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9) "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." (Revelation 2:22-23) "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Whoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed." (Exodus 22:18-20) "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25) Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14) "If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;" (Deuteronomy 22:22) "Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:24) "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35) "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16) "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xI Hammer Ix Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 We need to face the facts. Being that he is so outspoken about his beliefs it will be an issue, whether we want it to be or not. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs no matter what they are with regards to any subject. When you display them publicly there will be opposition and other belief systems brought up. Hopefully this won't become a distraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runninwiththedogs Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I agree. Unless a player's behavior: 1) effects the team on the ice, or 2) effects the team off the ice, I really don't care what his religious beliefs are or what he does on his own time. A friend of mine, who is a UND fan and student, tweeted back to him that he might as well @-reply quite a few of his teammates on his comments about men. It could very well affect the team off the ice. It affected his draft position, which at the time I thought was ridiculous, but I hadn't seen any of this side of him at the time. Iramurphy, I couldn't quote what you wrote back to me because you didn't quote me and I'm too lazy to fix it. Anyway, feminism is exhausting, but it's necessary, and I don't think this dialogue was a waste of time, nor do I think attempting to open a dialogue with Rocco himself was a waste of time even though it was fruitless. It's sad that the only two major reactions thus far are "He's gay!" (which, BTW, is not an insult per se, but people seem to think it is and use it pejoratively) or "Yeah! Right on!" (for reasons I've already gone through.) I don't agree with people who want to make fun of him just to make fun of him. It makes the message I'm trying to send get lost along the way. Of course I didn't help myself because I gave up and starting making silly comments, but meh. Hammer, I get what you're saying with the Bible quotations. It's not a very good read from a feminist point of view. I was referring to the overall message, though. This is certainly an interesting conversation and if anyone does want to chat further we should probably do it via direct message or email, because this thread could end up longer than the "former players" thread. I just hope, and I think you'll all agree with me, that this is the last of his outbursts in this manner, because if it becomes a regular thing, it will be a huge distraction and will cause a Chilly-style schism in the locker room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 If there must be controversy (and it seems that there must always be) I guess I'd take this over Judy's or "elevator-whiz-gate". Runnin': You're upset because he stated a POV in opposition to your (dare I call them 'religious') beliefs regarding feminism*. Ain't the First Amendment grand. * To some extremists, feminism is as dogmatic as any major religion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xI Hammer Ix Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I know the public overall message of any religon is peace, and many moderates truly try to live to those standards. If you credit religion for the good things it does, you also have to hold it accountable for the bad things it does, just like everything else in the world. I'm not here to bash any one religion, and wish to keep this discussion mature and calm. This is the year 2011 almost 2012, many of the Bronze Age doctrines of the bible have no place in society today. This is my last post in this thread. PM further discussions to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDrun262 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I wondered how long it would take someone to trot out some Old Testament verses on this thread. Let's be clear, Jesus Christ was the original women's libber. He included women in his inner circle before it was cool. It saddens me as a follower of Christ that it seems Christianity is the only religion in the US that can be trashed with impunity. As for Rocco, good on him. He is living and sharing his faith. Having a different opinion does NOT make you intolerant. Although it seems that is the common belief. I wonder if the posts had been Jewish, or Muslim if we would have this volume of posts? I hope Rocco continues to share his opinions and beliefs. He is a young man that is not afraid to share them, and that is rare in this day and age. I second the previous poster in reference to the 1st Amendment, it is a beautiful thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I still disagree, because he was speaking specifically to men. Also, I see nothing inherently wrong with lust, so I'd still disagree even if he was addressing both genders. Rape, incest, sexual assault, sexual harrassment, pedophilia, all those things I do see a problem with. No one put men in charge of the earth. Evolution created sexual reproduction and two distinct sexes in species that reproduce in that way. Let's stick to facts. This is the first time I've seen anything he's said as offensive. It's a pretty sharp turn from the tone of his previous tweets, which were silly little things about school and roommates mixed in with motivational quotations and devotional messages. No problem there. I felt it necessary to speak up (directly to him, in fact) about my objection to his chauvinistic world view. How about we put you in the androgynous category, just as you have categorized Rocco? Feminism is an androgynous movement that believes, at its core, that every person, regardless of sex, is androgynous. Seems like most of the unmarried highly educated women running around Midwestern cities like Minneapolis-St Paul hold that view so popularized by campus intellectuals. And then the women wonder why they aren't married? They've bought into the "Sex and the City" culture, where lust is good, but yet wonder why men treat them so poorly. The Bible teaches that sex in a covenant relationship is a very very good thing, but that pursuing lust just leads to emptiness, bitterness and all kinds of unhealthy emotions. Rocco has an unusual spiritual maturity for his age - its no surprise that he would be criticized for it. BTW, evolutionary scientists do not understand why "sex" came into being. Sex remains a mystery to the evolutionary world, as the most efficient method of pro-creation is asexual reproduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
802Sioux Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't think feminism advocates androgyny. It merely says that every adult has a right to self determination. And by that I mean, just cuz you've got danglies you're not the boss of me. There isn't one right way to be male or female and society shouldn't pick an archtype and try to make everyone conform to that image. And anecdotes don't equal data. Was happy single, am happy married did it all as a card carrying feminist. Don't even have to ask my hubby if I can travel for the games. Ain't it a grand world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Feminism "Was Established To Allow Unattractive Women Easier Access To The Mainstream" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't think feminism advocates androgyny. It merely says that every adult has a right to self determination. And by that I mean, just cuz you've got danglies you're not the boss of me. There isn't one right way to be male or female and society shouldn't pick an archtype and try to make everyone conform to that image. Agree. Moderate feminism and Christianity both say that every adult has a right to self determination. What is totally missing from runningwiththedogs portrayal of Rocco is the concept of sacrifice and suffering that comes with position. Instead, society is inverted: position (regardless of male or female) seems to mandate the infliction of suffering on those below them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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