geaux_sioux Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 I respectfully disagree. Nick Saban is a defensive wiz (despite what Johnny Manziel did to him). Another example of a coach who probably knew more than this counterparts would be Chip Kelly on offense. I bet the examples are countless. Game management, adjustments, game planning... all are things which separate the cream from the crop as well. Yeah, recruiting is probably the majority of most programs success, but that's not luck. That's a skill, too. Saban is a good X's and O's guy but he is a great mentality guy. That's what really sets him apart. The SEC is full of talent but his mentality bleeds into his players and the whole program demands absolute perfection. My favorite clip of Saban was from last year I believe and they had the scrubs in against Ol Miss or somebody and they were killing them. One of the player committed a stupid penalty that gave the other team a meaningless 1st down and Saban pulled the guy out of the game and laid into him like I've never seen Saban lay into a guy before. In front of the whole team with the game in hand he exploded over a very unimportant play in that game. It sent a message though. 100% of the time you better do your damn job or else. It reminded me of my old Central coach Mike Berg. He'd do the same thing and man does that send a powerful message. 1
BigGame Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 Before I finished reading this thread, I was wondering what kind of impact this would have on a recruit that may read it. I rarely feel that a coaching change will improve a team, but at the college level it all comes down to recruiting. Every coach looks like a genius when he has better players than the guy across the field from him (i.e.Phil Jackson). If our staff has under performed, it has been in the recruiting process. UND has the facilities, a great campus, tons of tradition in multiple sports and has proven in the past that they can compete at a high level. I don't believe Nick Saben knows anymore about football than his counter parts, but I do believe he and many of the top level programs at any level are extremely good recruiters. It's more that Saban is extremely detailed and demanding of this players. He is a good X's and O's coach but it gets a lot easier when you always have the best talent on the field top to bottom. Now Mack Brown at Texas has always been a great recruiter but the X's and O's stuff, not so much.
Matt Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Serious question: does Muss usually skip the Wednesday radio show before a bye or just after home blowouts before a bye?
gfhockey Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 idk why he would he gave everyone the day off Thursday, Friday and Saturday according to when he was on with swyg and tim and also with hammer.
NDSIOUXFAN1 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 I think my point may have been missed by using Nick Saben as a example. My point is, in order to have a successful program, you need to be able to recruit great players at every position. If there has been a failure by this regime, it has been in the recruitment of athletes that can develop and compete in this conference and for a national title. I know that they have missed on players out of Minnesota that went on to have success at MVFC schools, but were never offered by us. Don't get me wrong, we have recruited in good talent, just not enough.
geaux_sioux Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Guys need to be fresh for MSU. Days off are needed otherwise the bye week is useless. Goodman needs to get healthy and so does Rattelle among others.
homer Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 If the staff gave the guys off they could be out recruiting this weekend.
NDSIOUXFAN1 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 I would bet any amount of money the staff is out watching recruits Friday.
geaux_sioux Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 I would bet any amount of money the staff is out watching recruits Friday. The exactly what Mussman said they were doing.
timbo Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 ok I am curious what you all think to a complete coaching overhaul I don't think just muss is your problem? seems like your d is lacking and offense seems one dimentional maybe I am wrong just asking
gfhockey Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 it would have to be a house cleaning... top to bottom.
timbo Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 but would your ad have the stones to do that?
jdub27 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 it would have to be a house cleaning... top to bottom. Based on 3 games from rookie coordinators? Not an overreaction at all...
fightingsioux4life Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Based on 3 games from rookie coordinators? Not an overreaction at all... No, based on the entire tenure of this regime.
Irish Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 ok I am curious what you all think to a complete coaching overhaul I don't think just muss is your problem? seems like your d is lacking and offense seems one dimentional maybe I am wrong just asking Sounds like you are asking "why replace the coaching staff just because most of the team is sub-par?".
jdub27 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 No, based on the entire tenure of this regime. The OC and DC have been in their positions for 3 games! And after those 3 games you want to replace a young and promising defensive coordinator (who was a stellar ST coordinator) and an offensive coordinator who is working with 3 freshman quarterbacks and for the most part is doing pretty well? I understand the frustration with Mussman as everything starts and ends with him but cleaning house top to bottom is a ridiculous knee jerk reaction. Step back from the ledge and let the season play out. Mussman without a doubt isn't getting fired during the season despite how the arm chair quarterbacks think that will magically make this team better. And yes, I think something needs to be done, but after 3 games and in the middle of the season is not the time to do it. 1
Oxbow6 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Again a 6-5 finish with big losses to the Griz, Cats and EWU...all at home...IMO will be enough for Muss to stick another year in our AD's eyes. Sad but that will probably be the reality and shows how mediocrity has overcome the FB program. Least I can watch Corso put on the big Bison head Saturday to reaffirm the widening gap between the 2 programs.
NDSIOUXFAN1 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Once again, the problem begins with recruiting the right players to fit your offense or defense. We have obviously had misses on certain players or positions and it doesn't take more than 1-2 years of poor recruiting (bad judgement on players) to create holes in a team. There are plenty of knowledgeable coaches that can scheme against any opponent and make your head spin with X's and O's, but the exceptional college coaches are also great sales people. They know how to get a kid excited about the school, the program, their position coach and the vision of winning a national championship. They understand how to relate to both kids and parents, communicate appropriately in person, by phone, letter or social media. That is exactly how a coaching staff builds a program. It takes 3-6 years to turn a average program into a contender, but it only takes 1-2 years to turn a successful program into something average. 1
Hayduke Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Once again, the problem begins with recruiting the right players to fit your offense or defense. We have obviously had misses on certain players or positions and it doesn't take more than 1-2 years of poor recruiting (bad judgement on players) to create holes in a team. There are plenty of knowledgeable coaches that can scheme against any opponent and make your head spin with X's and O's, but the exceptional college coaches are also great sales people. They know how to get a kid excited about the school, the program, their position coach and the vision of winning a national championship. They understand how to relate to both kids and parents, communicate appropriately in person, by phone, letter or social media. That is exactly how a coaching staff builds a program. It takes 3-6 years to turn a average program into a contender, but it only takes 1-2 years to turn a successful program into something average. I have to admit they were at a huge recruiting disadvantage dealing with both the transition and, more importantly, the problems UND had with the nickname. It's tough to convince a good FCS player to come to UND when they weren't sure if they would ever host a playoff game.
mksioux Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 The OC and DC have been in their positions for 3 games! And after those 3 games you want to replace a young and promising defensive coordinator (who was a stellar ST coordinator) and an offensive coordinator who is working with 3 freshman quarterbacks and for the most part is doing pretty well? I understand the frustration with Mussman as everything starts and ends with him but cleaning house top to bottom is a ridiculous knee jerk reaction. Step back from the ledge and let the season play out. Mussman without a doubt isn't getting fired during the season despite how the arm chair quarterbacks think that will magically make this team better. And yes, I think something needs to be done, but after 3 games and in the middle of the season is not the time to do it. The reality is that, if a change is made at head coach, the new head coach will bring in his own people for the majority of the staff. The OC and DC will likely be casualties of a head coaching change regardless of whether they deserve it. And I think most people on this board calling for Muss to be fired realize it isn't going to happen mid-season. I think the conversation is whether it should happen afer the season.
jdub27 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 The reality is that, if a change is made at head coach, the new head coach will bring in his own people for the majority of the staff. The OC and DC will likely be casualties of a head coaching change regardless of whether they deserve it. And I think most people on this board calling for Muss to be fired realize it isn't going to happen mid-season. I think the conversation is whether it should happen afer the season. I don't disagree with that at all (though I think more feel Muss should be gone immediately than you think). I'm not ready to throw the OC and DC under the bus with the HC after 3 games from them though.
Oxbow6 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Muss will get to finish the season regardless of what happens from here on out and I hoenstly believe if his record isn't worse than last year (5-6), he'll be back regardless if they get thumped in their next two home games. I think Faison at this point has too big an ego and investment after just signing Muss to an extention to make a move after this year...unless things really go south like 4-7 or worse.
jdub27 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Muss will get to finish the season regardless of what happens from here on out and I hoenstly believe if his record isn't worse than last year (5-6), he'll be back regardless if they get thumped in their next to home games. I think Faison at this point has to big an ego and investment after just signing Muss to an extention to make a move after this year...unless things really go south like 4-7 or worse. Don't disagree with that much either. I'd be curious on how the contract reads. What kind of buyouts or guarantee are in it? Maybe it is less than face value as often contracts are merely to provide the illusion of stability. What concerns me is the timing. If Muss goes, a search needs to be done, but it needs to be done quickly otherwise this recruiting class could end up being a bust, setting UND back even further.
UND-1 Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Don't disagree with that much either. I'd be curious on how the contract reads. What kind of buyouts or guarantee are in it? Maybe it is less than face value as often contracts are merely to provide the illusion of stability. What concerns me is the timing. If Muss goes, a search needs to be done, but it needs to be done quickly otherwise this recruiting class could end up being a bust, setting UND back even further. If it is going to happen, Faison will have decided in his mind by November and I would assume have a "short-list" ready to go. They could easily have a coach by mid-December. That being said, lets just wait and see how it all plays out with the rest of the year.
gfhockey Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 The new head coach will bring in his own guys thus cleaning house Why would he deal with remnents of this debacle of a season?
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