Fire Muss

[geaux_sioux]

How did it get to this point? Remember the athletes' effort and attitude is a direct reflection of their leaders, their coaching staff. Maybe instead of going public with name calling, Mussman should have taken a look in the mirror.

I firmly disagree. A coach should have to say nothing for a player to give their all in a football game.

[CMSioux]

yet you are responding to it ...on a "fire the head coach messageboard" .....strange

Wait a minute - so you are saying you should only post in threads that you agree with - that's not what has been written here previously "Everyone is entitled their opinion" "this is the place to have discussions." Got it - guess that only goes if the posters agree with what you are posting.

[CMSioux]

Just think if you had a family member that was being recruited by und and a few other schools. Wouldn't und drop to the bottom of your list if you knew the coach publicly called players names? How about if your employer/boss publicly called employees names? It would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Worked for Bobby Knight.

[UND-1]

Wait a minute - so you are saying you should only post in threads that you agree with - that's not what has been written here previously "Everyone is entitled their opinion" "this is the place to have discussions." Got it - guess that only goes if the posters agree with what you are posting.

Tell you what, let's go the other way and hear why you think Coach Mussman should keep his job, why people should not be calling for his head, why it should be left up to B. Faison and not fans, and anything else you have to say.

Just get it out now and then you don't have to constantly say why everyone else's complaints are wrong or unneeded. Tell us the other side. You may bring up points that people have not considered.

[jdub27]

So Mussman says what everyone else can see and he's in the wrong? He didn't single out an individual player, that I would have a problem with. I understand the frustration that people have but when Mussman doesn't say anything negative in his press conferences, he gets ripped. When he says there is a problem with effort and attitudes, he gets ripped. He's 100% accurate in his assessment to anyone who has watched the last couple games.

Why that is happening and not stopping is a completely separate issue.

[CMSioux]

Tell you what, let's go the other way and hear why you think Coach Mussman should keep his job, why people should not be calling for his head, why it should be left up to B. Faison and not fans, and anything else you have to say.

Just get it out now and then you don't have to constantly say why everyone else's complaints are wrong or unneeded. Tell us the other side. You may bring up points that people have not considered.

First of all if you believe that it is productive to post name calling, jokes at UND and it's players expense and negative posts then I got nothing for you. Also there really is no discussion here as everytime someone posts a positive message saying things like - give it time, it was the toughest schedule in the country for a young team, freshman quarterbacks make freshman mistakes, How do you know what goes on in the locker room, calling for a coaches head isn't going to help the program or stop comparing us to other programs - the responses are "So you're happy with losing" "You must be Mussman's best friend", " or "If the only way to make a change is to go negative so be it", etc My comments are based on my opinion (which seems to be only allowed here if you agree with the minions) that you can have intelligent, respectful conversations about positive change and it doesn't have to include name calling, sarcasim, unfounded rumors etc. I never said Mussman should keep his job - I said that is up to UND and I don't think it does the program anygood to have a thread calling for the coaches head. If a change is needed there are highly paid, well educated professionals at UND whose job it is to make that decision. So is it okay to have a hundred page thread calling for the coaches head - sure - do I think it does the program any good or will result in anything positive - nope - just my opinion which is usually beat down and met with immature sarcasim. As has been shared by the Fire Mussman Crowd - "everyone is entitled to their opinion - if it agrees with mine."

[BJC]

Lets not but you brought it up. Accusing a guy of doing what he's doing - name calling - a form of bullying, makes one a PC minion? It sure isn't an effective leadership skill.

it is football......being called a "diva" is very tame........ *reference former TT coach "fat little girlfriends".....just saying if you can't handle being called a diva....you are one....however after sitting through a few games.....can't defend the head ball coach

[BJC]

Wait a minute - so you are saying you should only post in threads that you agree with - that's not what has been written here previously "Everyone is entitled their opinion" "this is the place to have discussions." Got it - guess that only goes if the posters agree with what you are posting.

not at all......not even close....just stating that a "real mature" post is in of its self.....inmature

[darell1976]

First of all if you believe that it is productive to post name calling, jokes at UND and it's players expense and negative posts then I got nothing for you. Also there really is no discussion here as everytime someone posts a positive message saying things like - give it time, it was the toughest schedule in the country for a young team, freshman quarterbacks make freshman mistakes, How do you know what goes on in the locker room, calling for a coaches head isn't going to help the program or stop comparing us to other programs - the responses are "So you're happy with losing" "You must be Mussman's best friend", " or "If the only way to make a change is to go negative so be it", etc My comments are based on my opinion (which seems to be only allowed here if you agree with the minions) that you can have intelligent, respectful conversations about positive change and it doesn't have to include name calling, sarcasim, unfounded rumors etc. I never said Mussman should keep his job - I said that is up to UND and I don't think it does the program anygood to have a thread calling for the coaches head. If a change is needed there are highly paid, well educated professionals at UND whose job it is to make that decision. So is it okay to have a hundred page thread calling for the coaches head - sure - do I think it does the program any good or will result in anything positive - nope - just my opinion which is usually beat down and met with immature sarcasim. As has been shared by the Fire Mussman Crowd - "everyone is entitled to their opinion - if it agrees with mine."

I think Faison got the fans message by looking at the empty seats in the Alerus. If you are happy with the team you show up, attendance is a great barometer on how good your team is. If you see a packed house with SRO fans then you have something special, when you hear crickets chirping when your opponent is about to snap the football on a third and long, then you have a problem. UND's attendance was growing and growing until the loss to SDSU then its been downhill since. If fans wear paper bags on their heads you have a problem. Fans are the reason schools have teams, because fans = money. If UND were in a 6 year slump in hockey with no playoff appearances I bet tickets would open up at the REA a lot more easier than it is now. Just look at volleyball how attendance has skyrocketed due to success on the court. The Alerus will get back to the DII days of attendance once the product on the field is good.

[UNDBIZ]

I think Faison got the fans message by looking at the empty seats in the Alerus. If you are happy with the team you show up, attendance is a great barometer on how good your team is. If you see a packed house with SRO fans then you have something special, when you hear crickets chirping when your opponent is about to snap the football on a third and long, then you have a problem. UND's attendance was growing and growing until the loss to SDSU then its been downhill since. If fans wear paper bags on their heads you have a problem. Fans are the reason schools have teams, because fans = money. If UND were in a 6 year slump in hockey with no playoff appearances I bet tickets would open up at the REA a lot more easier than it is now. Just look at volleyball how attendance has skyrocketed due to success on the court. The Alerus will get back to the DII days of attendance once the product on the field is good.

Most if not all of the people still showing up aren't happy with the team either.

[darell1976]

Most if not all of the people still showing up aren't happy with the team either.

And Mussman and Faison will hear it in person with all the boos and the comments flowing from the crowd. Faison knows if he doesn't replace Muss UND football tickets will be a VERY hard sell next season as fans won't have any (if they still do) faith in Muss and this coaching staff. Especially if UND goes to San Jose and totally get wiped out by an FBS team from the MWC.

[UND-1]

First of all if you believe that it is productive to post name calling, jokes at UND and it's players expense and negative posts then I got nothing for you. Also there really is no discussion here as everytime someone posts a positive message saying things like - give it time, it was the toughest schedule in the country for a young team, freshman quarterbacks make freshman mistakes, How do you know what goes on in the locker room, calling for a coaches head isn't going to help the program or stop comparing us to other programs - the responses are "So you're happy with losing" "You must be Mussman's best friend", " or "If the only way to make a change is to go negative so be it", etc My comments are based on my opinion (which seems to be only allowed here if you agree with the minions) that you can have intelligent, respectful conversations about positive change and it doesn't have to include name calling, sarcasim, unfounded rumors etc. I never said Mussman should keep his job - I said that is up to UND and I don't think it does the program anygood to have a thread calling for the coaches head. If a change is needed there are highly paid, well educated professionals at UND whose job it is to make that decision. So is it okay to have a hundred page thread calling for the coaches head - sure - do I think it does the program any good or will result in anything positive - nope - just my opinion which is usually beat down and met with immature sarcasim. As has been shared by the Fire Mussman Crowd - "everyone is entitled to their opinion - if it agrees with mine."

Fair enough. That is one side to it, no doubt. Probably could be considered a downfall of anonymous message boards.

[Oxbow6]

Rumor has it the team will be provided orange slices, juice boxes and participation ribbons after Saturday's game win or lose to help boost morale...

[CMSioux]

Nice how my point continues to be proven here.

[CMSioux]

Fair enough. That is one side to it, no doubt. Probably could be considered a downfall of anonymous message boards.

I appreciate the intelligent reparte.

[fightingsioux4life]

I firmly disagree. A coach should have to say nothing for a player to give their all in a football game.

Then why do head coaches get paid so much? Maybe you think that is how it should work, but that is not how human beings are wired. A team takes on the personality of the head coach. Mussman apparently does not have the respect of the locker room and once you lose that, you have lost your team and nothing you say will change anything. The players respected Lennon, they respected Thomas. I know Dean Blais was respected by his players because he had standards and expectations that he expected the players to live up to. Same with Gene Roebuck. Same with Brian Idalski. Based on all the personal foul penalties, sloppy play, sideline antics when we are down 40 points at home, it is obvious Mussman has lost the team and I don't think he can get it back. I do not doubt that Mussman could succeed someplace else as a coordinator, but I don't think he is head coaching material.

[Sioux_FF]

I think Faison got the fans message by looking at the empty seats in the Alerus. If you are happy with the team you show up, attendance is a great barometer on how good your team is. If you see a packed house with SRO fans then you have something special, when you hear crickets chirping when your opponent is about to snap the football on a third and long, then you have a problem. UND's attendance was growing and growing until the loss to SDSU then its been downhill since. If fans wear paper bags on their heads you have a problem. Fans are the reason schools have teams, because fans = money. If UND were in a 6 year slump in hockey with no playoff appearances I bet tickets would open up at the REA a lot more easier than it is now. Just look at volleyball how attendance has skyrocketed due to success on the court. The Alerus will get back to the DII days of attendance once the product on the field is good.

I think Faison is a $$$$ and sense guy, more than anything. If you look at the current staff, with the exception of Mussman, it's pretty green in terms of coaching experience. To me that translates into what Faison has been willing to pay the football staff since he's been here. He's had numerous opportunities to pull in serious D1 experience to the staff, but that hasn't happened. The staff hires and promotions over his years have been mostly young and inexperienced.

If you blow up the staff, I just don't see him giving big, or even adequate money for a quality outside hire. If he's forced to dump Muss, I'll put money on the new head coach coming from current staff. 20% UND loyalty, but 80% due to money. But, don't look for any instant improvement when that happens. I still tend to believe Faison gives the current staff another year, because lower attendance is still cheaper than the alternative for him.

[Oxbow6]

Nice how my point continues to be proven here.

Get over yourself...and off your high horse.

That fact that the "revelation" to you (post #1833) that this team, program and Muss aren't what they should be at this stage came ONLY after last week's game says a lot...and not in an insightful way.

[fightingsioux4life]

I think Faison is a $$$$ and sense guy, more than anything. If you look at the current staff, with the exception of Mussman, it's pretty green in terms of coaching experience. To me that translates into what Faison has been willing to pay the football staff since he's been here. He's had numerous opportunities to pull in serious D1 experience to the staff, but that hasn't happened. The staff hires and promotions over his years have been mostly young and inexperienced.

If you blow up the staff, I just don't see him giving big, or even adequate money for a quality outside hire. If he's forced to dump Muss, I'll put money on the new head coach coming from current staff. 20% UND loyalty, but 80% due to money. But, don't look for any instant improvement when that happens. I still tend to believe Faison gives the current staff another year, because lower attendance is still cheaper than the alternative for him.

If this is what Faison is going to do, we might as well join the Pioneer Football League.

[jdub27]

The players respected Lennon

So what is Lennon's issue at SIU?

I think Faison is a $$$$ and sense guy, more than anything. If you look at the current staff, with the exception of Mussman, it's pretty green in terms of coaching experience. To me that translates into what Faison has been willing to pay the football staff since he's been here. He's had numerous opportunities to pull in serious D1 experience to the staff, but that hasn't happened. The staff hires and promotions over his years have been mostly young and inexperienced.

If you blow up the staff, I just don't see him giving big, or even adequate money for a quality outside hire. If he's forced to dump Muss, I'll put money on the new head coach coming from current staff. 20% UND loyalty, but 80% due to money. But, don't look for any instant improvement when that happens. I still tend to believe Faison gives the current staff another year, because lower attendance is still cheaper than the alternative for him.

Mussman was here when Faison was hired. He went 8-3 in his contract year and won a share of the GWFC. I don't care if the schedule wasn't all that great, he got an extension he deserved at the time. The amount of raise that came with it is a pretty obvious indicator to me that Faison wasn't all in on Mussman yet. Faison will pay a coach what he's worth.

[fightingsioux4life]

So what is Lennon's issue at SIU?

I don't know what is happening at SIU. All I know is that Lennon did not put up with any nonsense when he was in charge at UND and it worked out pretty well for us.

[jdub27]

I don't know what is happening at SIU. All I know is that Lennon did not put up with any nonsense when he was in charge at UND and it worked out pretty well for us.

And Mussman was a large part of that. I would argue that Mussman does pretty well at not putting up with nonsense. Players have missed games for missing classes or other team violations, redshirts have lost their privilege of being on the sideline, he has publicly stated there has been a lack of effort and discipline, etc. At this point, it seems like Mussman is a great coordinator but isn't quite ready to lead a team at this level. Not a bad thing, it just is what it is. I'm guessing Faison recognizes it and will handle it appropriately.

[gfhockey]

How can we fire faison if he gives muss another year?

[jdub27]

How can we fire faison if he gives muss another year?

Have you called or e-mailed to voice your concern?

[mizzou/sioux]

And Mussman was a large part of that. I would argue that Mussman does pretty well at not putting up with nonsense. Players have missed games for missing classes or other team violations, redshirts have lost their privilege of being on the sideline, he has publicly stated there has been a lack of effort and discipline, etc. At this point, it seems like Mussman is a great coordinator but isn't quite ready to lead a team at this level. Not a bad thing, it just is what it is. I'm guessing Faison recognizes it and will handle it appropriately.

For what it's worth, it might also be argued that Pat Behrns wasn't quite ready to lead the Sioux as head coach when he was at UND as well. However, after moving to Nebraska-Omaha his coaching record improved immeasurably, including beating his old team on a number of painful occasions (to Sioux fans, at least). I think there are a lot of variables at work here. Hindsight, which can be awfully close to 20/20 at times, now tells us we probably should have moved up to D-I when NDSU and SDSU both did. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was in that same time frame that we were in the process of establishing Division I women's hockey. That was an expensive proposition. Money is a factor, however one chooses to look at it. NDSU and SDSU were able to establish a powerful initial recruiting advantage in football, which is still there. It's easy to sit back as a Monday morning quarterback and say, well, you should have done this, you should have done that. In reality, life throws us a number of curves. Am I wrong, that it wasn't all that long ago when a certain portion of Bisonville was ready willing and able to throw Bohl under the bus. Now look. Well, enough for now.