JohnboyND7 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 The population of SR has not indicated that at all. If they were allowed to vote, the results of Spirit Lake would be replicated. Your point that the nickname should be retired even if a non-namesake tribe from some distant state objects to it has been employed and failed vis-a-vis FSU. The only tribes that really are relevant in the debate are SR and SL. Any other Tribes in any others states can say whatever they want but such rhetoric would certainly be irrelevant to this debate. Why should the Chippewa like Leigh Jeanotte care? Probably jealousy? Prove it that results would be replicated. They elected a group of people. If the Sioux name was even remotely important to them, they would have elected pro-nickname people, oh wait!!!! They voted for anti-nickname people...hmm...........not following your logic bro. Just playing Devil's advocate, I can give two craps if UND keeps the name or not, just throwing up 2 pennys in there with all of you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Don't feed the trolls - Use the "Ignore" option on all known su posters - it's pretty easy to pick them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Yes, you are an ncaa member (a DII member). You won't get kicked out of the ncaa, but the ncaa must approve your membership before you are approved for DI. You don't get approved for country club membership by thumbing your nose at the board. I have said that before that they could add years to our transition for all these extra meetings and lawsuits. I know no school has had that happen, but as they say there is always a first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Don't feed the trolls - Use the "Ignore" option on all known su posters - it's pretty easy to pick them out. What CM means is actually don't read anyone's opinion that he doesn't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Don't feed the trolls - Use the "Ignore" option on all known su posters - it's pretty easy to pick them out. Yup...they're the guys on here with 37 posts and all the answers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Yup...they're the guys on here with 37 posts and all the answers... Typically when a group of people elects representatives, they choose someone who agrees with them on issues they deem important. For some folks, the issues are social programs and welfare systems. For others it is low taxes or good schools. If the "Fighting Sioux issue" was important to the people, they would have elected individuals who believed UND keeping the nickname was important. By electing individuals who were either against the nickname, or had decided that it simply was not important to them, the people of the Standing Rock rez essentially, whether informed voters or not, that they did not want the University of North Dakota to keep the name Fighting Sioux. You can say all you want about people signing some petition begging the counsel to allow a vote, the citizens of voting age had their chance to "save the name" and decided other issues were more important. Game. Set. Match. NCAA. If you don't like it, that's understandable. If you guys are going to keep complaining about how the NCAA works, just remember, no one is forcing you to be a part of the NCAA. The NAIA might have a different policy on Native American logos. And if you are "above" the NAIA, feel free to move a semi-pro hockey team into Grand Forks and call them the Fighting Sioux. This would allow UND to drop the hockey team and with it, all the fans that weren't fans of the school, they were fans of a team of college guys called the Fighting Sioux. This would also allow the Spirit Lake people to be so "proud" of the nickname and quit throwing a fit. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Typically when a group of people elects representatives, they choose someone who agrees with them on issues they deem important. For some folks, the issues are social programs and welfare systems. For others it is low taxes or good schools. If the "Fighting Sioux issue" was important to the people, they would have elected individuals who believed UND keeping the nickname was important. By electing individuals who were either against the nickname, or had decided that it simply was not important to them, the people of the Standing Rock rez essentially, whether informed voters or not, that they did not want the University of North Dakota to keep the name Fighting Sioux. You can say all you want about people signing some petition begging the counsel to allow a vote, the citizens of voting age had their chance to "save the name" and decided other issues were more important. Game. Set. Match. NCAA. If you don't like it, that's understandable. If you guys are going to keep complaining about how the NCAA works, just remember, no one is forcing you to be a part of the NCAA. The NAIA might have a different policy on Native American logos. And if you are "above" the NAIA, feel free to move a semi-pro hockey team into Grand Forks and call them the Fighting Sioux. This would allow UND to drop the hockey team and with it, all the fans that weren't fans of the school, they were fans of a team of college guys called the Fighting Sioux. This would also allow the Spirit Lake people to be so "proud" of the nickname and quit throwing a fit. So your solution is for UND to drop its biggest money making, attention getting sport and move to the NAIA? Spoken like a true Bison fan with penis envy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Typically when a group of people elects representatives, they choose someone who agrees with them on issues they deem important. Yup, and many times the electorate is left to select someone they agree with most of the time. If I lived on a reservation, I guess a candidate's positions on jobs, poverty, teen suicide, addiction, and tribal infrastructure just might trump a candidate's stance on a moniker of a school 300 miles away. When you really do want the pulse of an electorate, direct democracy does trump representative democracy. Ultimately, none of this matters. Standing Rock won't be voting. The NCAA won't change their stance. And Spirit Lake is suing in a court that the NCAA can ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 You don't think Spirit Lake could then sue in a higher court ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 http://plainsdaily.com/entry/ncaa-team-nicknames-6-years-later/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonh8er Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Prove it that results would be replicated. They elected a group of people. If the Sioux name was even remotely important to them, they would have elected pro-nickname people, oh wait!!!! They voted for anti-nickname people...hmm...........not following your logic bro. Just playing Devil's advocate, I can give two craps if UND keeps the name or not, just throwing up 2 pennys in there with all of you guys. Prove it? Well, for starters we can say that the members of the tribe signed a petition to allow a vote on the issue. Remember, it was the same petition that the tribal council threw to the side like a piece of trash. Does that constitute as proof in your eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 http://plainsdaily.com/entry/ncaa-team-nicknames-6-years-later/ Out of 8 schools that have new nicknames 4 of them have the name Hawks. 1 hawk, 1 Crimson Hawk, and 2 War Hawks. Is that a popular choice? Should UND become the Green Hawk? Or the Fighting Hawks? Or the UND we sh-t on the heads of the NCAA Hawks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Prove it? Well, for starters we can say that the members of the tribe signed a petition to allow a vote on the issue. Remember, it was the same petition that the tribal council threw to the side like a piece of trash. Does that constitute as proof in your eyes? They elected the officials that threw it aside. This is entirely on the citizens who elected said officials. If it was that important to them, they would have elected officials based on their views of the nickname. From what I have heard, no proof that this in fact happened, a similar petition was signed by several Natives on the Rez to block a vote on the Sioux name. If that is indeed a fact(unknown, too lazy to look for where I heard it), then what do you do? Take off the kelly green glasses, and tell me if two groups sign petitions opposing one another, and the elected officials are against it, they should carry out the vote anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 So your solution is for UND to drop its biggest money making, attention getting sport and move to the NAIA? Spoken like a true Bison fan with penis envy. Thats not my solution, far from it. I said if you guys are going to keep complaining and say how the NCAA is the worst thing since Adolf Hitler, you are free to leave. No one is making you be in the NCAA. Do I think that UND should drop hockey? No, it is your best sport. It makes the University a lot of money. But at some point, you have to quit complaining and deal with what has happened. I have never witnessed a group of adults acting like children who aren't getting their way before. It sucks for you guys that you are losing the name. If I sign a loan agreement, on the promise that I will pay it back, and I dont pay it back, is it unreasonable for the bank to take my house? Yep, I might be pissed about it, but in the end, it is entirely my fault. Enough with the Bison hate, I'm speaking on behalf of every school who thinks its time to grow up and change the name, not because Fighting Sioux is "hostile and abusive", because it isn't. Change the name because the agreement was made which left UND in a situation where they at least were given an opportunity to try and keep the name, and they couldn't meet the terms and conditions of said agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Thats not my solution, far from it. I said if you guys are going to keep complaining and say how the NCAA is the worst thing since Adolf Hitler, you are free to leave. No one is making you be in the NCAA. Do I think that UND should drop hockey? No, it is your best sport. It makes the University a lot of money. But at some point, you have to quit complaining and deal with what has happened. I have never witnessed a group of adults acting like children who aren't getting their way before. It sucks for you guys that you are losing the name. If I sign a loan agreement, on the promise that I will pay it back, and I dont pay it back, is it unreasonable for the bank to take my house? Yep, I might be pissed about it, but in the end, it is entirely my fault. Enough with the Bison hate, I'm speaking on behalf of every school who thinks its time to grow up and change the name, not because Fighting Sioux is "hostile and abusive", because it isn't. Change the name because the agreement was made which left UND in a situation where they at least were given an opportunity to try and keep the name, and they couldn't meet the terms and conditions of said agreement. Everyone not just Sioux fans know the NCAA is the worst thing since Hitler. Congress knows how corrupt it is with no playoffs like every other division in the NCAA. Look at the penalties and corruption with schools. Could you see the NCAA give the death penalty to Ohio State or Miami? I am shocked they banned USC from being bowl eligible. If the NAIA was exactly like the NCAA then sure sign us up but they aren't. IMO the NCAA is a monopoly in college sports. If the polls (SI, and ESPN) can show that 80% of NA have no problems with NA nicknames why did the NCAA come out with this policy? Answer just to show how powerful they are and to push the little guy around. It almost backfired when FSU threatened to sue so thats why the NCAA modified it. I wish our delegation would have talked to their congressional friends and launch an investigation on the corrupted organization called the NCAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'm speaking on behalf of every school ...... Prove it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Prove it...... Well, you know, shoveling cow dung does make you all-seeing and all-knowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperman8 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 They elected the officials that threw it aside. This is entirely on the citizens who elected said officials. If it was that important to them, they would have elected officials based on their views of the nickname. From what I have heard, no proof that this in fact happened, a similar petition was signed by several Natives on the Rez to block a vote on the Sioux name. If that is indeed a fact(unknown, too lazy to look for where I heard it), then what do you do? Take off the kelly green glasses, and tell me if two groups sign petitions opposing one another, and the elected officials are against it, they should carry out the vote anyways. When Charles Murphy defeated Ron His Horse is Thunder for Tribal Chairman most believed that he would allow a vote on the subject. That probably played a role in the election. Based on pre-election positioning, I think they did elect a chairman who was open to a vote. Here is some of the story from WDAZ after the election. His Horse is Thunder, a staunch opponent of the nickname and logo, did not allow a tribe-wide vote on UND's use of the Sioux name, saying such a vote would not be binding. In July, Murphy told WDAZ he would consider allowing a tribe-wide vote on UND's use of the Sioux nickname if elected chairman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 When Charles Murphy defeated Ron His Horse is Thunder for Tribal Chairman most believed that he would allow a vote on the subject. That probably played a role in the election. Based on pre-election positioning, I think they did elect a chairman who was open to a vote. Here is some of the story from WDAZ after the election. His Horse is Thunder, a staunch opponent of the nickname and logo, did not allow a tribe-wide vote on UND's use of the Sioux name, saying such a vote would not be binding. In July, Murphy told WDAZ he would consider allowing a tribe-wide vote on UND's use of the Sioux nickname if elected chairman. When Charles Murphy was on ont Board of Higher Education, he publically supported the Fighting Sioux name and logo even though he was against it before that time. This is a man who speaks out of both sides of his mouth. How is anyone suppose to know where he stands on issues when his opinion's change with the wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 When Charles Murphy defeated Ron His Horse is Thunder for Tribal Chairman most believed that he would allow a vote on the subject. That probably played a role in the election. Based on pre-election positioning, I think they did elect a chairman who was open to a vote. Here is some of the story from WDAZ after the election. His Horse is Thunder, a staunch opponent of the nickname and logo, did not allow a tribe-wide vote on UND's use of the Sioux name, saying such a vote would not be binding. In July, Murphy told WDAZ he would consider allowing a tribe-wide vote on UND's use of the Sioux nickname if elected chairman. He considered it...but didn't allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 He considered it...but didn't allow it. He's a politician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperman8 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 He considered it...but didn't allow it. Yep. My point was to refute the claim that Standing Rock elected people who were against having a vote on the name. I think they elected a Chairman believing that he would allow a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yep. My point was to refute the claim that Standing Rock elected people who were against having a vote on the name. I think they elected a Chairman believing that he would allow a vote. Well whether he mislead them or not, it doesn't matter. Time ran out. If Spirit Lake wants to acquire the logo which is what I have sort of gathered? Correct me if I'm wrong. That's cool, if they want to sell Spirit Lake shirts with the logo I don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperman8 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Well whether he mislead them or not, it doesn't matter. Time ran out. If Spirit Lake wants to acquire the logo which is what I have sort of gathered? Correct me if I'm wrong. That's cool, if they want to sell Spirit Lake shirts with the logo I don't care. You keep missing my point. You posted earlier - If it was that important to them, they would have elected officials based on their views of the nickname. They did but the guy didn't follow through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 You keep missing my point. You posted earlier - If it was that important to them, they would have elected officials based on their views of the nickname. They did but the guy didn't follow through. From what you guys have said he said, he never promised them anything. He said he'd consider it, which is what a politician will say about pretty well anything haha, pretty unfair. Perhaps since he knew his opponent was anti-nickname he made it sound like he was open to discussion. It is pretty sad that this is what politicians do but oh well. This doesn't affect me so I won't make a fuss of it. I was unaware that he was not vocally anti-nickname and I apologize for assuming he had made his stance clear in the past when really, he did not. Who knew that Native Americans would one day adopt white-man political styles of dodging direct answers. Granted, I doubt his supposed neither for nor against nickname is what got him elected but like I pointed out earlier in this post, I've been wrong on other parts of this discussion and so I probably could be on this one too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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