New Nickname

[The Sicatoka]

Well folks, I just hit the suggestion web page. If your epiphany was last night it's too late. 

[yababy8]

_{I just submitted:}

_BRAVEHEARTS

_{fits the criteria perfectly:}

• _{Be unique, recognizable, inspiring, and distinctly UND’s}
• _{Promote a sense of pride, strength, fierceness, and passion}
• _{Be representative of the state and region in a way that honors the traditions and heritage of the past but also looks to the future}
• _{Be a unifying and rallying symbol}

_{...This will do as a hold over until the world becomes rational and let's the Sioux people have their name represent the University of their land with pride and honor once again. It may take 20 years but it will happen..}

I got mine in just before the bell. :-)

Waiting for someone to say it won't fly because the word brave can be associated with NA's...

[Benny Baker]

I got mine in just before the bell. :-)

Waiting for someone to say it won't fly because the word brave can be associated with NA's...

Well, William and Mary were allowed to keep the "Tribe" as its nickname, so long as it removed a very racist set of feathers from its hostile and abusive logo:

In unrelated news, Florida State still has a mascot of a Native American playing white face:

Way to stomp out racist imagery from your athletic competitions, NCAA!

[Shawn-O]

Well, William and Mary were allowed to keep the "Tribe" as its nickname, so long as it removed a very racist set of feathers from its hostile and abusive logo:

In unrelated news, Florida State still has a mascot of a Native American playing white face:

Way to stomp out racist imagery from your athletic competitions, NCAA!

 

We've been through this a thousand times...the Seminole tribe signed off.  While I vehemently disagree with the NCAA's policy, it's quite defensible.  I'm not an attorney, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  

[jdub27]

I got mine in just before the bell. :-)

Waiting for someone to say it won't fly because the word brave can be associated with NA's...

 

There was rumors about the Washington Redskins doing this a while back.  http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24137527/could-the-washington-redskins-become-the-washington-bravehearts

 

Just curious what kind of logo you'd use with it?

[Benny Baker]

We've been through this a thousand times...the Seminole tribe signed off.  While I vehemently disagree with the NCAA's policy, it's quite defensible.  I'm not an attorney, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  

I was just making a tongue in cheek joke.

 

Though I might have to respectfully disagree on the characterization of the NCAA's policy or enforcement thereof as "defensible".  I don't see much point in trying to eliminate allegedly racist mascots when the NCAA obviously allows some, but not all, schools to use them.  If one needs to go, they all should go.  Nor do I see any consistency in allowing some schools to keep their nickname with the approval of only one of a few tribes while uniquely requiring UND to secure approval of multiple tribes through a settlement agreement.

 

Just my two cents.  Feel free to bash away and criticize me.

[Shawn-O]

I was just making a tongue in cheek joke.

 

Though I might have to respectfully disagree on the characterization of the NCAA's policy or enforcement thereof as "defensible".  I don't see much point in trying to eliminate allegedly racist mascots when the NCAA obviously allows some, but not all, schools to use them.  If one needs to go, they all should go.  Nor do I see any consistency in allowing some schools to keep their nickname with the approval of only one of a few tribes while uniquely requiring UND to secure approval of multiple tribes through a settlement agreement.

 

Just my two cents.  Feel free to bash away and criticize me.

 

This has become somewhat urban legend around here.  The Oklahoma tribe gave the okay.  No bashing forthcoming.  

[Benny Baker]

This has become somewhat urban legend around here.  The Oklahoma tribe gave the okay.  No bashing forthcoming.  

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  That statement was referring to Central Michigan.  My recollection is that Central Michigan secured approval from the closest of the five Chippewa tribes in Michigan, but not the other four.  Although UND secured approval from the closest Sioux tribe, the NCAA forced UND to also obtain approval from Standing Rock.*

 

* I'm assuming the NCAA forced this issue, otherwise Wayne Stenehjem in less competent than we actually think.

[82SiouxGuy]

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  That statement was referring to Central Michigan.  My recollection is that Central Michigan secured approval from the closest of the five Chippewa tribes in Michigan, but not the other four.  Although UND secured approval from the closest Sioux tribe, the NCAA forced UND to also obtain approval from Standing Rock.*

 

* I'm assuming the NCAA forced this issue, otherwise Wayne Stenehjem in less competent than we actually think.

Timing of the approval from tribes was a factor.  Central Michigan got tribal approval very quickly.  The tribe and CMU had made a new arrangement in 2002 and the tribe let the NCAA know that they still supported that agreement.  UND didn't get tribal approval before the original deadline (or before the lawsuit).  UND sued the NCAA plus got an extended period to obtain approval from the settlement agreement.  A lot of people believe that getting approval from 2 tribes was the price UND was charged for getting the time extension and for filing the lawsuit.  There is almost always a price to pay to get concessions in a lawsuit, like getting an extended period to negotiate.

[darell1976]

I got mine in just before the bell. :-)

Waiting for someone to say it won't fly because the word brave can be associated with NA's...

Bradley has Braves as long as they don't associate it with NA's. 

 

[UNDErmines]

Okay, the suggestion period is closed, and they've published the scoring criteria.  Here's how I would rate the Ermines nickname.  I think it should win in a fair fight.

 

The way I see the scoring for Ermines is:

1. Be unique, recognizable, inspiring and distinctly UND’s

Clearly a +1 and I don't see how it's not the top option.

2. Promote a sense of pride, strength, fierceness, and passion

Clearly a +1

3. Be representative of the state and region in a way that honors the traditions and heritage of the past but also looks to the future.

Certainly meets the first part. Looking forward is tough, but in an age of conservation and ecological awareness, Ermines works.

I think it's a +1, but a skeptic might give it a 0.

4. Be a unifying and rallying symbol

I'm not sure how you decide this without research, but I think its uniqueness works for this. I'd give it a +1.

5. Ease of Depicting/Personifying Physical Mascot:

1 - Easy; mascot and fans can easily dress as nickname, e.g. Vikings, Lumberjacks

0 - Moderate; easy to depict graphically and create physical mascot, however fan participation more difficult, e.g. Eagles, Bears

-1 - Difficult; challenging to depict graphically and physically, e.g. Vandals, Tarheels

Clearly a +1 and it's hard to imagine it not being the top choice based on other suggestions I've heard.

6. Cheer/Battle Cry Considerations:

1 - “Built-in” cheer, battle cry, e.g. Spartans, Wildcats

0 - More difficult, e.g. Cornhuskers, Lumberjacks

-1 - Difficult, e.g. Vandals, Tarheels 

I have no idea how to judge this for any mascot. Why is a Vandal difficult while a Spartan isn't? If they're just looking for recognizable nouns, Ermines is clearly a +1.

7. Meaning of Nickname: 

1 - Obvious, e.g. Eagles, Grizzlies 

0 - Moderate, e.g. Vandals, Cornhuskers 

-1 - Requires explanation, e.g. Sooners, Hoosiers

Should be a +1. Maybe some uneducated people would give it a 0, but come on. It's a mammal. We learn mammals in 5th grade.

8. Linguistic Considerations – Pronunciation:

1 - Easy, e.g. Lumberjacks, Thunderbirds

0 - Moderate, e.g. Hoyas, Zias

-1 - Difficult, e.g. Chanticleers, Gaels

Again, we learn mammals in 5th grade. This should be easy. But based on the examples I could see it being a 0 and a critical person might give it a -1.

9. Linguistic Considerations – Likelihood of name being abridged resulting in different name or name similar to existing name:

1 - Not likely or not possible, e.g. Bears, Eagles

0 - Possible, e.g. Thunderbirds to ‘Birds,” Bobcats to “Cats”

-1 - Likely, e.g. Catamounts to “Cats,” Chanticleers to “Chants”

It can't really be shortened, but I could see some heathen opponents using the "vermin" rhyme. This is probably the only weakness of the name, so this might be a -1. But any name is going to be co-opted by opponents. , Faiders, Donkey, Dolts ... it's going to happen to any name.  Every name will be a -1 if we're scoring based on those criteria.

[darell1976]

Okay, the suggestion period is closed, and they've published the scoring criteria. Here's how I would rate the Ermines nickname. I think it should win in a fair fight.

The way I see the scoring for Ermines is:

1. Be unique, recognizable, inspiring and distinctly UND’s

Clearly a +1 and I don't see how it's not the top option.

2. Promote a sense of pride, strength, fierceness, and passion

Clearly a +1

3. Be representative of the state and region in a way that honors the traditions and heritage of the past but also looks to the future.

Certainly meets the first part. Looking forward is tough, but in an age of conservation and ecological awareness, Ermines works.

I think it's a +1, but a skeptic might give it a 0.

4. Be a unifying and rallying symbol

I'm not sure how you decide this without research, but I think its uniqueness works for this. I'd give it a +1.

5. Ease of Depicting/Personifying Physical Mascot:

1 - Easy; mascot and fans can easily dress as nickname, e.g. Vikings, Lumberjacks

0 - Moderate; easy to depict graphically and create physical mascot, however fan participation more difficult, e.g. Eagles, Bears

-1 - Difficult; challenging to depict graphically and physically, e.g. Vandals, Tarheels

Clearly a +1 and it's hard to imagine it not being the top choice based on other suggestions I've heard.

6. Cheer/Battle Cry Considerations:

1 - “Built-in” cheer, battle cry, e.g. Spartans, Wildcats

0 - More difficult, e.g. Cornhuskers, Lumberjacks

-1 - Difficult, e.g. Vandals, Tarheels

I have no idea how to judge this for any mascot. Why is a Vandal difficult while a Spartan isn't? If they're just looking for recognizable nouns, Ermines is clearly a +1.

7. Meaning of Nickname:

1 - Obvious, e.g. Eagles, Grizzlies

0 - Moderate, e.g. Vandals, Cornhuskers

-1 - Requires explanation, e.g. Sooners, Hoosiers

Should be a +1. Maybe some uneducated people would give it a 0, but come on. It's a mammal. We learn mammals in 5th grade.

8. Linguistic Considerations – Pronunciation:

1 - Easy, e.g. Lumberjacks, Thunderbirds

0 - Moderate, e.g. Hoyas, Zias

-1 - Difficult, e.g. Chanticleers, Gaels

Again, we learn mammals in 5th grade. This should be easy. But based on the examples I could see it being a 0 and a critical person might give it a -1.

9. Linguistic Considerations – Likelihood of name being abridged resulting in different name or name similar to existing name:

1 - Not likely or not possible, e.g. Bears, Eagles

0 - Possible, e.g. Thunderbirds to ‘Birds,” Bobcats to “Cats”

-1 - Likely, e.g. Catamounts to “Cats,” Chanticleers to “Chants”

It can't really be shortened, but I could see some heathen opponents using the "vermin" rhyme. This is probably the only weakness of the name, so this might be a -1. But any name is going to be co-opted by opponents. , Faiders, Donkey, Dolts ... it's going to happen to any name. Every name will be a -1 if we're scoring based on those criteria.

Dumb name -100.

[siouxstudent]

[zonadub]

Nice logo, but doesn't look like an Ermine to me.

[UNDErmines]

Nice logo, but doesn't look like an Ermine to me.

 

We could probably work with it.  Maybe it could be an Ermine with a headdress.

[UNDErmines]

Dumb name -100.

 

Admittedly, it won't appeal to everybody in the first five seconds.  It takes a good ten seconds of thought to recognize the power of the Ermine name, and then one becomes an Ermine supporter for life. 

[The Sicatoka]

 

Let's see, I think I'm getting a flashback, or an echo ... left to right red, green, yellow, and orange feathers, ... almost looks like a head dress, ... on a black hawk. Hmmm ... 

 

[The Sicatoka]

Admittedly, it won't appeal to everybody in the first five seconds.  It takes a good ten seconds of thought to recognize the power of the Ermine name, and then one becomes an Ermine supporter for life. 

 

Once a weasel, always a weasel. 

[The Sicatoka]

Hey Weasel, uh, ... I mean Ermine,

 

What would you think of the name Corona? Any insights? 

[UND-RedSox fan]

What people need to realize is replacing the Fighting Sioux name with something else doesn't erase the history of the Fighting Sioux from the University of North Dakota.  No one is saying that we need to forget about the old name.  No one is telling people to throw all their Fighting Sioux apparel away and buy up all the merchandise with the new logo.  Moving forward does not mean forgetting about the past.  That being said, there is a fine line between remembering the old name and honoring its place in UND history and holding on to the name and not adjusting or adapting to the new name. 

Nothing to do with your post but every time I see your avatar, I think to myself ubermensch would be a cool nickname.

[Emerald joker]

Okay, the suggestion period is closed, and they've published the scoring criteria. Here's how I would rate the Ermines nickname. I think it should win in a fair fight.

The way I see the scoring for Ermines is:

1. Be unique, recognizable, inspiring and distinctly UND’s

Clearly a +1 and I don't see how it's not the top option.

2. Promote a sense of pride, strength, fierceness, and passion

Clearly a +1

3. Be representative of the state and region in a way that honors the traditions and heritage of the past but also looks to the future.

Certainly meets the first part. Looking forward is tough, but in an age of conservation and ecological awareness, Ermines works.

I think it's a +1, but a skeptic might give it a 0.

4. Be a unifying and rallying symbol

I'm not sure how you decide this without research, but I think its uniqueness works for this. I'd give it a +1.

5. Ease of Depicting/Personifying Physical Mascot:

1 - Easy; mascot and fans can easily dress as nickname, e.g. Vikings, Lumberjacks

0 - Moderate; easy to depict graphically and create physical mascot, however fan participation more difficult, e.g. Eagles, Bears

-1 - Difficult; challenging to depict graphically and physically, e.g. Vandals, Tarheels

Clearly a +1 and it's hard to imagine it not being the top choice based on other suggestions I've heard.

6. Cheer/Battle Cry Considerations:

1 - “Built-in” cheer, battle cry, e.g. Spartans, Wildcats

0 - More difficult, e.g. Cornhuskers, Lumberjacks

-1 - Difficult, e.g. Vandals, Tarheels

I have no idea how to judge this for any mascot. Why is a Vandal difficult while a Spartan isn't? If they're just looking for recognizable nouns, Ermines is clearly a +1.

7. Meaning of Nickname:

1 - Obvious, e.g. Eagles, Grizzlies

0 - Moderate, e.g. Vandals, Cornhuskers

-1 - Requires explanation, e.g. Sooners, Hoosiers

Should be a +1. Maybe some uneducated people would give it a 0, but come on. It's a mammal. We learn mammals in 5th grade.

8. Linguistic Considerations – Pronunciation:

1 - Easy, e.g. Lumberjacks, Thunderbirds

0 - Moderate, e.g. Hoyas, Zias

-1 - Difficult, e.g. Chanticleers, Gaels

Again, we learn mammals in 5th grade. This should be easy. But based on the examples I could see it being a 0 and a critical person might give it a -1.

9. Linguistic Considerations – Likelihood of name being abridged resulting in different name or name similar to existing name:

1 - Not likely or not possible, e.g. Bears, Eagles

0 - Possible, e.g. Thunderbirds to ‘Birds,” Bobcats to “Cats”

-1 - Likely, e.g. Catamounts to “Cats,” Chanticleers to “Chants”

It can't really be shortened, but I could see some heathen opponents using the "vermin" rhyme. This is probably the only weakness of the name, so this might be a -1. But any name is going to be co-opted by opponents. , Faiders, Donkey, Dolts ... it's going to happen to any name. Every name will be a -1 if we're scoring based on those criteria.

NO ERMINES!!!!!!!!

[Emerald joker]

Dumb name -100.

YES!!!!!

[MafiaMan]

Let's see, I think I'm getting a flashback, or an echo ... left to right red, green, yellow, and orange feathers, ... almost looks like a head dress, ... on a black hawk. Hmmm ...

The OP should have mentioned where this logo came from. It was floated around as a replacement logo for the Chicago Blackhawks on another message board. Shortly after it was originally posted, t-shirts started appearing with that logo on it. There was even a minor league team somewhere that tweaked that logo a bit and released it as their official logo before dumping it due to the obvious copycat of the original. I'm searching for the link...

[yababy8]

NO ERMINES!!!!!!!!

I don't even know what Ermines means? It sounds like an S.T.D.

[UNDErmines]

I don't even know what Ermines means? It sounds like an S.T.D.

 

The initial mystery is part of the allure, am I right?  You're intrigued, you're curious, you're thinking, "What is this thing called an ermine?"  And then you look it up and see a furry and adorable ball of terror that is pound for pound one of the most terrifying creatures on this big blue ball that we call earth.