Chewey Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think that there are a couple of things that are worth while to remember. First of all the SBoHE is taking postive steps again on behalf of the name. (doesn't matter why) Shaft correctly pointed out that Faison testified as he did based on what he was told by his boss. You can dislike him or criticize him but do it for the right reasons. Nothing bad can happen because of this effort and I think this is well worth the energy. If we are going to get the NCAA to move on this issue in favor of the name, this is probably the best shot we have. I think the message that everyone involved is going to go as a team in a joint effort is important. I would not include any of the oppontnets. This is a lobbying effort on behalf of the name, not some "sham fact finding" championed by some of the opponents. Well said, Ira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 How about members of the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe who approved the name. Why aren't they invited to the table?? Exactly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sf340flier Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Perhaps we see for sale signs in his yard again lol? Member a hearald artice back when people were throwing dog !@#$ and for sale signs in his front yard. Am I missing something? Why is this funny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochsioux Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 http://www.grandfork...icle/id/198473/ Go Get Em North Dakota. And at the end of those talks, one of two things should happen, Shaft said. "Either all these people walk out, holding hands and saying, 'We got it!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Huh ? Ya, right. I can see how this will go following this plan: ND: Well, any change on your nickname stance ? BTW, we now have a state law that says we have to keep the name. NC$$: You are now on the sanction list. Anything else we can help you with ? ND: No, I guess that does it. We gave it try. Time to change the name. I do not expect the NC$$ to change their position one bit without at least the threat of a lawsuit. The only thing that really matters to the NC$$ is $$$$$. I see only one way to get them to change their stance and that is through a lawsuit...even if the NC$$ would win. ND must be willing to pursue a lawsuit and be willing to spend what it takes to get the NC$$ to back off. I have no idea what grounds could be used but I have no doubt that a really good lawyer could find one. If you find a way to force the NC$$ to produce a lot of documents (any skeletons in their closet ?) and spend a lot of money they may be willing to settle on more favorable terms, such as only requiring UND to have support of the closest Sioux tribe (same as every other school). UND must go into the meeting with the NC$$ with a president, AD, SBOE, legislature, and Spirit Lake Tribal rep all on the same page that they are willing to fight to keep the name. It would also help if one or more congressional reps would attend and provide their support. A unified delegation representing UND, the state, and the closest tribe along with the threat of another lawsuit would provide the best chance to get the NC$$ to negotiate a settlement to allow the name without sanctions. I would love to hear them explain to the Spirit Lake rep why their support is not good enough when every other school that has been exempted only needed to get the support of the closest tribe. Any chance that this would give Spirit Lake grounds to sue the NC$$ ? The surrender terms of the first lawsuit were ridiculous. It gave those in favor of the nickname nothing except a timeline for retiring the name. UND got what they wanted, the NC$$ to retract the hostile and abusive label, and a practically impossible hurdle to overcome in getting two tribes to approve. Just to be sure the SBOE added an additional requirement for a 30 year agreement. Sure, they worked really hard to save the name. Someone suggested to start emailing the NC$$. Not sure that would help much. What about emailing all the NC$$ corporate sponsors ? Seems like the ND legislature was having problems keeping up with all the emails they got. Wonder how the corporate sponsors would like getting inundated by Sioux fans ? Wonder how they would like getting email from Spirit Lake asking them why they support an organization that is discriminating against them ? Don't know if this would help at all but I doubt it could hurt. Corporate sponsors: http://www.ncaa.org/...s/partners.html That's exactly how I saw this too. He just tipped his hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krangodance Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I agree that Spirit Lake should be included in the NCAA meeting. Certainly gives more credence to the state's case. The one problem I could see with this is the obvious attempt to include members of a tribe that gave approval to continue using the nickname and logo while excluding members of the tribe that have not given such approval. I think it's safe to assume that the NCAA representatives at this meeting will have done their homework and will point out the fact that only the tribe who have given approval were invited to the table. This would very likely be viewed by the NCAA as a sign that the representatives for North Dakota, the SBoHE, and UND are not being very forthcoming in their argument to keep the name and logo. Unless somebody can convince the government of the Standing Rock tribe to hold a vote before this meeting, a vote that would likely result in the tribe's approval to continue using the name and logo, I think it would be a poor decision to invite representatives of the Spirit Lake tribe to the table. This should not be interpreted as a statement that the tribes shouldn't have a say in the matter; I'm certainly of the opinion that their opinion is the most important of all. However without a clear decision on the matter on the part of BOTH tribes I don't see how getting them involved in this meeting helps the pro-nickname cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxguyinstpaul Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Perhaps I speak with little knowledge - not the first time and never stopped me before - but it sure must burn the NCAA that the hostile and abusive named team from a small town somewhere in the northern plains is not only in the final 4 (and all the exposure that comes with it) but also has one of the top three college players in the nation (more exposure) adorning mentioned hostile/abusive logo on his chest. I credit ESPNU and even the local rags here in the TC's for not being so politically correct as of late - although that changes with the wind - and really give credit to the ND Fighting Sioux players and fans (ie Evan Trupp's between period interview last week) for promoting (with pride) the program which was never meant to demean the Sioux Nation - only to honor with a program that prides itself on not only success - but success with character - a character that is often overlooked. I know this is asking alot - but perhaps the "elitest" ruling class that is the NCAA should take this into consideration and not attempt to protect a people that (seems to me anyway) neither need or request such protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I still stand by this (no one commented much on it) ? I don't disagree with your recommendation. I would suggest that you do some homework and provide the e-mail addresses of all the pertinent people at the NCAA who may have a say in this. That , of course, would include President Emmert and other NCAA employees. The following is the NCAA Divsion I Board of Directors: Division Committee Positions Title Name & Institution Conference Term Expiration FBS Member President John G. Peters Northern Illinois University Mid-American Conference APR 2013 FBS Member President Lee T. Todd, Jr. University of Kentucky Southeastern Conference APR 2014 FBS Member President Lou Anna Simon Michigan State University Big Ten Conference APR 2014 FBS Member President Nathan O. Hatch Wake Forest University Atlantic Coast Conference APR 2014 FBS Member President Sidney McPhee Middle Tennessee State University Sun Belt Conference APR 2013 FBS Member President Stan L. Albrecht Utah State University Western Athletic Conference APR 2014 FBS Member President, President David Schmidly University of New Mexico Mountain West Conference APR 2012 FBS Member President, President Edward Ray Oregon State University Pacific-10 Conference APR 2012 FBS Member President, President Guy H. Bailey Texas Tech University Big 12 Conference APR 2014 FBS Chair President, President Judy Genshaft University of South Florida Big East Conference APR 2013 FBS Member President, President Steadman Upham University of Tulsa Conference USA APR 2014 FCS Member President F. Ann Millner Weber State University Big Sky Conference APR 2012 FCS Member President Gregory Dell'Omo Robert Morris University Northeast Conference APR 2011 FCS Member President William R. Harvey Hampton University Mid-Eastern Athletic Conf. APR 2013 FCS Member President, President William A. Meehan Jacksonville State University Ohio Valley Conference APR 2013 DI Member Chancellor, Chancellor Charles Bantz Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis The Summit League APR 2011 DI Member President E. William Beauchamp, C.S.C University of Portland West Coast Conference APR 2012 DI Member President Kevin J. Mullen, O.F.M., Ph.D. Siena College Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference APR 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowBoutThemBison? Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Ok, I am a Bison fan(look at my name), and I really do not think UND should have to lose their name(though I am thoroughly getting a kick out of this), but at what point do you just say its a nickname? At the end of the day, you have all been spending ludacris amounts of money trying to keep this name and getting North Dakotan's to waste our tax dollars on getting this thing passed. You guys had years to get the tribes to agree, and you couldn't even get one of the tribes to take a vote on it. Don't waste your breath typing a bunch of hate stuff to me or anything. Just saying...... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Ok, I am a Bison fan(look at my name), and I really do not think UND should have to lose their name(though I am thoroughly getting a kick out of this), but at what point do you just say its a nickname? At the end of the day, you have all been spending ludacris amounts of money trying to keep this name and getting North Dakotan's to waste our tax dollars on getting this thing passed. You guys had years to get the tribes to agree, and you couldn't even get one of the tribes to take a vote on it. Don't waste your breath typing a bunch of hate stuff to me or anything. Just saying...... I love when people say that until it happens to their team. If the SBoHE says NDSU should not be the Bison anymore because its a sacred animal of Native Americans they should retire the name and go back to being called the NDSU Farmers. Lets go Farmers. How would NDSU fans like it? What an outrage...hey its just a name isn't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 April 22. But does that work for everyone involved? http://plainsdaily.com/entry/und_ncaa_meeting_set_for_april_22nd/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 April 22. But does that work for everyone involved? http://plainsdaily.com/entry/und_ncaa_meeting_set_for_april_22nd/ The NCAA agreed to a date, and those idiots in Bismarck can't be there?? Al Carlson you make me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillySioux Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 April 22. But does that work for everyone involved? http://plainsdaily.com/entry/und_ncaa_meeting_set_for_april_22nd/ Oh man, are we sure this meeting should happen at all? For it to happen, it might involve an airplane ride for a state employee. The thought of that is just.............its just too much to bear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I believe that they are trying to move the meeting to Bismarck so the legislators can be involved. Hopefully the meeting will be moved so that the legislators can be involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackburn87 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Spirit Lake absolutely needs to be involved in this discussion, including Standing Rock folks who have repeatedly asked for a similar vote on their reservation and have been denied. Of course, that raises the spectre of the Standing Rock Tribal Council members who have not only said no to a vote but have issued their own edict on the Sioux moniker. I can't help but think that if Native Americans stand up and say, "We have sued over the issue. We have written you letters in support of the name. The Sioux name is also part of our tradition," surely the NCAA will see the other side of this issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe either Standing Rock or Spirit Lake were directly involved in any of the negotiations between the NCAA and Wayne Stenejehm. That was an arrogant mistake on both parts and the typical paternalistic view the NCAA has displayed toward Native Americans and their varied opinions on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackburn87 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Forgive me if it's already posted, but here's the link where Spirit Lake wants a seat at the table... http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/7563 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 There's a good idea. Insult one of the constituents that has supported the process. Nice work. Spirit Lake held the vote and provided their support. I see no reason why they should not be represented, especially when the NCAA's policy is supposed to be for their benefit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/198773/ After Shaft said on Wednesday that he was trying to arrange a meeting with the NCAA and the state and UND officials, several nickname supporters asked why representatives of Spirit Lake and Standing Rock would not be included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota fairways Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/198773/ After Shaft said on Wednesday that he was trying to arrange a meeting with the NCAA and the state and UND officials, several nickname supporters asked why representatives of Spirit Lake and Standing Rock would not be included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Wasn't shaft earlier quoted as saying this meeting should be the be-all and end-all? That they either come to an agreement or they agree that nothing further can be done? Seem's like he's ignoring von Clausewitz in his approach...(if you are going to war, bring overwhelming forces) Now, if he thinks this is just a prelim to get both sides at the table and see there they stand, that's another issue. But I don't see any strong reason not to invite the tribe that has officially approved the use of the nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 But I don't see any strong reason not to invite the tribe that has officially approved the use of the nickname. Spirit Lake's permission is really the only trump card we have to play. The NCAA has already said state law isn't going to sway their opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 shaft told his son that if the sioux drop the nickname they could be invited into the big 10 conference, which a couple people had fun refuting - make no mistake, shaft does NOT want the nickname You probably should cite a source for that. Did you hear this conversation? Or hear it from your cousin's sister's hairdresser's plumber's mom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Or hear it from your cousin's sister's hairdresser's plumber's mom? "Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious." -- Simone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 The Big Ten offering UND an invite is the worst April Fools joke thus far. I wish there was some truth to that! I'm not hating on UND, I go to school here. I'm just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remington_270 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 "Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious." -- Simone +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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