Grand Forks Library

[Siouxphan27]

This is one of those Miss America-feel-good-type of idea.  In reality it makes no sense.  People on welfare have iphones with the internet at their fingertips wherever there's free wifi.

 

[moser53]

2 hours ago, Cratter said:

https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/when-voters-say-no-public-officials-should-listen/

Who will get their new building first: Grand Forks or Devils Lake?

Are you a  native of Grand Forks moved to Fargo then back to Grand Forks?

[UNDBIZ]

3 minutes ago, moser53 said:

Are our  native of Grand Forks moved to Fargo then back to Grand Forks?

[geaux_sioux]

Repair those damn roads before even talking about a library.

[siouxforeverbaby]

3 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

My grandkids are on the internet multiple times a day, aren't libraries being used less and less?

I haven't been to one for twenty years, I'm on the internet every day?

Actually, no.  Libraries are being used more and more.  I am looking to see if I can find the last numbers that I saw, but it might take a bit.

As far as fundraising, libraries do that already as much as possible.  Most grants will require some local funding however.

Also, roads and libraries are two separate mill levies.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

2 hours ago, siouxforeverbaby said:

Actually, no.  Libraries are being used more and more.  I am looking to see if I can find the last numbers that I saw, but it might take a bit.

As far as fundraising, libraries do that already as much as possible.  Most grants will require some local funding however.

Also, roads and libraries are two separate mill levies.

That surprises me, like to hear more?

[Cratter]

6 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

That surprises me, like to hear more?

Libraries aren't "Libraries" anymore.

 Could you imagine someone going to the Grand Forks city council and proposing: "Hey, Let's build a $25 Million place to store books for a city wide book club and  give us $2,000,000 a year to run it."

They are now "community centers." 

Buy a latte in the cafe, Play World of Warcraft with your friends in the gaming lounge area, browse facebook on the free wifi, and then check out the new Harry Potter movie on Blu Ray before you head home. (I wouldn't be surprised if some had indoor playgrounds - drop the kids off at the library for a few hours while mom goes and runs errands.)

 

Back when libraries were about books, people use to get drunk, smoke cigarettes, and tell the bartender to call a taxi and hope they showed up in forty five minutes.

Now the kids get drunk, inhale liquid ejuice on a battery, and tap a device from their pocket and a car shows up in two minutes. When they want to check out a library book, they tap a button on their phone and it shows up instantly free to read (saving the planet by having less car pollution too! )

[John W.]

One  east coast city, thinking it may be in New Jwrsey or New York, converted an unused Mall into a library....Malls are dying....why not convert a portion of Columbia Mall into a library....plenty of parking...easily accessible...on a bus route....Probably at a lesser cost than a new construction..

[TheFlop]

Before anyone is allowed to vote for a downtown library location......they should be required to visit the downtown Duluth library.  While there, picture the same clientele but with a much worse parking situation which would be the case in downtown Grand Forks.   http://www.kbjr6.com/story/37839278/bed-bug-scare-at-duluth-library-prompts-overnight-treatment-open-for-business

[SiouxVolley]

Only a small portion - like 1% - of books, journals and other knowledge based resources are available without paying on the internet.  While the internet may be a very valuable tool for efficiency and quick reference, for learning it is comparable to only eating Doritos and drinking Coke for ones entire diet.

There are wonderful examples of new downtown libraries, like Billings, Montana.

[moser53]

17 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Only a small portion - like 1% - of books, journals and other knowledge based resources are available without paying on the internet.  While the internet may be a very valuable tool for efficiency and quick reference, for learning it is comparable to only eating Doritos and drinking Coke for ones entire diet.

There are wonderful examples of new downtown libraries, like Billings, Montana.

Your last sentence. Hear Hear

[siouxforeverbaby]

14 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

That surprises me, like to hear more?

I can certainly find it.  Unfortunately, I am pretty sure that I left my sheet with all of the numbers at work.  I am trying to find it online.  The numbers would be from 2016 since the 2017 numbers will not have been completely complied yet. If I can't find it online, I will try to find it at work this weekend.

[Siouxphan27]

If millions of dollars are spent on a library, I'm sure thousands of residents will come home from a hard day's work and instead of spending time on the couch with the family on their tablets, laptops, and ipads, they'll drive across town so they can read a newspaper on a stick.  

[SWSiouxMN]

17 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

If millions of dollars are spent on a library, I'm sure thousands of residents will come home from a hard day's work and instead of spending time on the couch with the family on their tablets, laptops, and ipads, they'll drive across town so they can read a newspaper on a stick.  

 

[Siouxphan27]

 

[Cratter]

10 hours ago, Cratter said:

and then check out the new Harry Potter movie on Blu Ray before you head home.

This is already outdated. 

You now checkout a Roku device from the GFPL, and watch movies through their Vudu account.

[siouxforeverbaby]

On 3/29/2018 at 10:08 PM, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

That surprises me, like to hear more?

Okay, so I couldn’t find the data set from 2016.....but I am working on getting it. 2017 numbers won’t be available until later this year.

However, for 2013:

85 public libraries in ND

274,797 ND citizens with library cards

586,250 uses of public computers (does not include WiFi counts)

2,211,373 visits to ND libraries 

144,531 hours open to the public

398,033 reference questions answered 

13,434 library programs

2,642,897 items available for checkout (audio, physical, e-books, movies, and kits)

4,215,264 items checked out.

[TheFlop]

5 hours ago, siouxforeverbaby said:

Okay, so I couldn’t find the data set from 2016.....but I am working on getting it. 2017 numbers won’t be available until later this year.

However, for 2013:

85 public libraries in ND

274,797 ND citizens with library cards

586,250 uses of public computers (does not include WiFi counts)

2,211,373 visits to ND libraries 

144,531 hours open to the public

398,033 reference questions answered 

13,434 library programs

2,642,897 items available for checkout (audio, physical, e-books, movies, and kits)

4,215,264 items checked out.

Those numbers really aren't that great when you think about it.  I have a lbrary card......but haven't been into the Grand Forks library in the last 10 years.  Simple Google handles many more "reference questions" in a day than the library does.  As for the public computer usage......would be very interested to see how many actual unique users there were versus how many of those uses were repeated uses by a relatively small group of individuals.  Regardless, the numbers you cite don't justify a new library costing tens of millions of dollars. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

6 hours ago, siouxforeverbaby said:

Okay, so I couldn’t find the data set from 2016.....but I am working on getting it. 2017 numbers won’t be available until later this year.

However, for 2013:

85 public libraries in ND

274,797 ND citizens with library cards

586,250 uses of public computers (does not include WiFi counts)

2,211,373 visits to ND libraries 

144,531 hours open to the public

398,033 reference questions answered 

13,434 library programs

2,642,897 items available for checkout (audio, physical, e-books, movies, and kits)

4,215,264 items checked out.

Thanks, definitely still a demand for a library.

[TheFlop]

14 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Thanks, definitely still a demand for a library.

Just not demand that justifies the expenditure.  

[Siouxphan27]

Someone please check my math here:

Using those numbers, 2,211373 library visits divided by 144,531 hours being open, equals 15.3 visits per hour.  Spread over 85 libraries.  So, assuming library visits are equal among the 85 libraries and all libraries were open the exact same number of hours (which is false, but bear with me), a person walks thru the door of each library approximately once every 5.5 hours.   

[SiouxVolley]

So we have to compare GF library needs with Mayville, Larimore and Cooperstown?   May just 4 or 5 in the state are comparable.

Perhaps I was too bookish, but knew a lot of kids that would check out four books a week from the library.  That simply isn’t possible to do now without a library.  Not many families have the means to buy Kindles with that type of reading material weekly.  This is more about having eager young readers than measly taxpayers.  That’s why Andrew Carnegie stepped up and built libraries all over America.

[siouxforeverbaby]

On 4/1/2018 at 4:33 PM, TheFlop said:

Those numbers really aren't that great when you think about it.  I have a lbrary card......but haven't been into the Grand Forks library in the last 10 years.  Simple Google handles many more "reference questions" in a day than the library does.  As for the public computer usage......would be very interested to see how many actual unique users there were versus how many of those uses were repeated uses by a relatively small group of individuals.  Regardless, the numbers you cite don't justify a new library costing tens of millions of dollars. 

They are also five years old as stated. There are many reference questions that Google can't answer and/or may not provide the right answer.  Many library patrons get frustrated using Google and want someone to help them. I can't answer for all other libraries, but for my library computer users are counted once each day.  So, if you come in at 8 am, 10am, 12pm, 2pm, 4pm, and 6pm.....you are still only counted once.

 Forgive me, I do not recall the amount that they were last talking about for a new library building.  So, I can't completely answer to that part of your post.

Libraries have changed in the last 10 years as many of my patrons have said when they enter haven't been gone for awhile.

My original post was responding to whether or not people were using the library.  That was the point of the post to provide some data.  I am working on getting more recent data as well.

[TheFlop]

1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said:

So we have to compare GF library needs with Mayville, Larimore and Cooperstown?   May just 4 or 5 in the state are comparable.

Perhaps I was too bookish, but knew a lot of kids that would check out four books a week from the library.  That simply isn’t possible to do now without a library.  Not many families have the means to buy Kindles with that type of reading material weekly.  This is more about having eager young readers than measly taxpayers.  That’s why Andrew Carnegie stepped up and built libraries all over America.

20 years ago?  Yes.  But since you brought it up, full color Kindles can be had for $50-$100 depending on size.  I'm guessing that price can be even cheaper in bulk.  I'd be more likely to support a program that puts a new Kindle in the hand of every kid......and even one in the hand of every adult that demonstrates need.  Wi-Fi is everywhere and the internet is full of free books and entertainment options.  Would be exponentially cheaper than building a library.  Shopping....education....etc is all moving away from bricks and mortar but for some reason the small but vocal library proponents insist on a big new physical building.

[siouxforeverbaby]

1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said:

So we have to compare GF library needs with Mayville, Larimore and Cooperstown?   May just 4 or 5 in the state are comparable.

Perhaps I was too bookish, but knew a lot of kids that would check out four books a week from the library.  That simply isn’t possible to do now without a library.  Not many families have the means to buy Kindles with that type of reading material weekly.  This is more about having eager young readers than measly taxpayers.  That’s why Andrew Carnegie stepped up and built libraries all over America.

In the top tier for service area population (25,000*), there are 9 libraries.   Grand Forks, Bismarck, Fargo, and Minot are the highest.  I would have to go back and look at what the next closest is.  It is either Dickinson or West Fargo if I am remembering correctly.