Nickname on Ballot at Spirit Lake

[Sioux-cia]

Does anyone know where Charles Murphy stands regarding the name and logo?

[Goon]

I'm back for a little while.

Welcome back.

[Goon]

Come on Shawn, it's called "The Calm Before the Storm"

And if there's a storm, that's good for pro-Sioux nicknamers.

This makes my stomach hurt. I still holding out a glimmer of hope that the name stays.

[YaneA]

An update from Standing Rock...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/132143/

[YaneA]

Read also Herald editorial on the Board of Higher Ed deadline:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/132138/

[Shawn-O]

Suppose a referendum is held, and Standing Rock voters favor the nickname by a solid margin, as Spirit Lake voters did. Suppose both tribal councils follow suit with resolutions in support of the nickname.

Would the state board then have to keep the nickname for good?

It would not. The board still could vote to change the nickname. In fact, it probably should do so, on the grounds that the nickname is simply too distracting and divisive.

Oh my goodness, can you say "all hell breaking loose"?

[dagies]

It's nice to see the Herald being the voice of reason here.

[The Sicatoka]

From the Herald editorial:

Because if there

[choyt3]

So, what became of this? What was the tribal judge's ruling?

Breaking News from InForum: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/251748/group/home/

[YaneA]

It's nice to see the Herald being the voice of reason here.

Hmmm. Why do I get the impression that Tom Dennis and Mike Jacobs each wrote alternating paragraphs in this editorial?

[The Sicatoka]

The evidence has been there all along that those opposed to the Fighting Sioux nickname are the minority of a minority attempting to dictate to the majority. Jacobs and other likeminded members of the news media simply pretended that it didn't exist. They didn't demonstrate any of the healthy skepticism that journalists are supposed to possess, despite numerous signs that the nickname opponents were lying through their teeth.

For more than 30 years, the Jeanotte-heads have been trying to convince other Native Americans that they should be offended. But when you can't convince half of the alleged victims that they've been wronged -- even with most of the media steadfastly behind your cause for decades -- it's a pretty good indication that the "injustice" is really just a load of buffalo chips perpetuated by a small group of hypersensitive malcontents.

A week or two ago, Jacobs wrote another editorial or column in which he blamed state leaders for being disinterested in negotiating with the tribes; however, it takes two sides to negotiate. On the day the settlement with the NCAA was announced, I think Wayne Stenhjem sincerely believed he could negotiate with the tribes. He listed a number of areas in which he had held successful negotiations with tribal governments in the past.

However, within days of the settlement, Gipp, His Horse is Thunder and other tribal "leaders" held a news conference in Grand Forks and said there would be no negotiating. So who's to blame for the lack of dialogue? Even if Hoeven, Goetz and the entire congressional delegation said they would go to Standing Rock to discuss the issue, it would have done no good if none of the tribal leaders refused to participate.

Personally, I would have at least liked to have seen Hoeven and Goetz call their bluff. They should have said that they would go to Ft. Yates on a certain date to meet with tribal leaders to discuss the Fighting Sioux nickname issue. They should have brought the media with them to show they were there and willing to talk, but all they could negotiate with was empty chairs.

Of course, calling out the tribal leaders in that manner would have been considered insensitive, which is why it wasn't done. But I know who torpedoed any chance for meaningful negotiations, and it wasn't the guys in Bismarck and Grand Forks.

[sioux7>5]

The evidence has been there all along that those opposed to the Fighting Sioux nickname are the minority of a minority attempting to dictate to the majority. Jacobs and other likeminded members of the news media simply pretended that it didn't exist. They didn't demonstrate any of the healthy skepticism that journalists are supposed to possess, despite numerous signs that the nickname opponents were lying through their teeth.

For more than 30 years, the Jeanotte-heads have been trying to convince other Native Americans that they should be offended. But when you can't convince half of the alleged victims that they've been wronged -- even with most of the media steadfastly behind your cause for decades -- it's a pretty good indication that the "injustice" is really just a load of buffalo chips perpetuated by a small group of hypersensitive malcontents.

A week or two ago, Jacobs wrote another editorial or column in which he blamed state leaders for being disinterested in negotiating with the tribes; however, it takes two sides to negotiate. On the day the settlement with the NCAA was announced, I think Wayne Stenhjem sincerely believed he could negotiate with the tribes. He listed a number of areas in which he had held successful negotiations with tribal governments in the past.

However, within days of the settlement, Gipp, His Horse is Thunder and other tribal "leaders" held a news conference in Grand Forks and said there would be no negotiating. So who's to blame for the lack of dialogue? Even if Hoeven, Goetz and the entire congressional delegation said they would go to Standing Rock to discuss the issue, it would have done no good if none of the tribal leaders refused to participate.

Personally, I would have at least liked to have seen Hoeven and Goetz call their bluff. They should have said that they would go to Ft. Yates on a certain date to meet with tribal leaders to discuss the Fighting Sioux nickname issue. They should have brought the media with them to show they were there and willing to talk, but all they could negotiate with was empty chairs.

Of course, calling out the tribal leaders in that manner would have been considered insensitive, which is why it wasn't done. But I know who torpedoed any chance for meaningful negotiations, and it wasn't the guys in Bismarck and Grand Forks.

Great post and I could not agree with you more. This whole mess falls directly on the shoulders of RHTT and Gipp. They would not have ever gone to a meeting in good faith. To listen and try and reach an agreement. So if UND loses the nickname then what will they have to bitch about. I guess all the problems on the reservations will just magically disappear.

[darell1976]

So now the paper says the board should delay the date to change the name..no sh-t. UND had until Nov. 30, 2010 to reach an agreement per settlement with the NCAA. That is still over a year away and we all of a sudden have 27 days to get an agreement or the name is gone per decision of the ND School Board. So someone tell me what happens on Oct. 1??? I know the SR go to the polls on Sept 30 and elect Murphy and tell RHHIT to f-ck off is it over anyways because there is no vote by the new tribal council? So as of Oct. 1, our school is just North Dakota everything Sioux like is gone just like that.

[HKNTSMN]

Should the University of North Dakota keep the Sioux name? - results

Who is the player in the Facebook poll...

Should the University of North Dakota keep the Sioux name? - results

Question: "Should the University of North Dakota keep the Sioux name?"

- Yes

- No

- Maybe

about an hour ago

[Goon]

It's nice to see the Herald being the voice of reason here.

Talk about an about face.

[dagies]

The evidence has been there all along that those opposed to the Fighting Sioux nickname are the minority of a minority attempting to dictate to the majority. Jacobs and other likeminded members of the news media simply pretended that it didn't exist. They didn't demonstrate any of the healthy skepticism that journalists are supposed to possess, despite numerous signs that the nickname opponents were lying through their teeth.

For more than 30 years, the Jeanotte-heads have been trying to convince other Native Americans that they should be offended. But when you can't convince half of the alleged victims that they've been wronged -- even with most of the media steadfastly behind your cause for decades -- it's a pretty good indication that the "injustice" is really just a load of buffalo chips perpetuated by a small group of hypersensitive malcontents.

A week or two ago, Jacobs wrote another editorial or column in which he blamed state leaders for being disinterested in negotiating with the tribes; however, it takes two sides to negotiate. On the day the settlement with the NCAA was announced, I think Wayne Stenhjem sincerely believed he could negotiate with the tribes. He listed a number of areas in which he had held successful negotiations with tribal governments in the past.

However, within days of the settlement, Gipp, His Horse is Thunder and other tribal "leaders" held a news conference in Grand Forks and said there would be no negotiating. So who's to blame for the lack of dialogue? Even if Hoeven, Goetz and the entire congressional delegation said they would go to Standing Rock to discuss the issue, it would have done no good if none of the tribal leaders refused to participate.

Personally, I would have at least liked to have seen Hoeven and Goetz call their bluff. They should have said that they would go to Ft. Yates on a certain date to meet with tribal leaders to discuss the Fighting Sioux nickname issue. They should have brought the media with them to show they were there and willing to talk, but all they could negotiate with was empty chairs.

Of course, calling out the tribal leaders in that manner would have been considered insensitive, which is why it wasn't done. But I know who torpedoed any chance for meaningful negotiations, and it wasn't the guys in Bismarck and Grand Forks.

I agree it would have been nice to see the state officials put the Tribal leaders on the spot.

[Goon]

The evidence has been there all along that those opposed to the Fighting Sioux nickname are the minority of a minority attempting to dictate to the majority. Jacobs and other likeminded members of the news media simply pretended that it didn't exist. They didn't demonstrate any of the healthy skepticism that journalists are supposed to possess, despite numerous signs that the nickname opponents were lying through their teeth.

For more than 30 years, the Jeanotte-heads have been trying to convince other Native Americans that they should be offended. But when you can't convince half of the alleged victims that they've been wronged -- even with most of the media steadfastly behind your cause for decades -- it's a pretty good indication that the "injustice" is really just a load of buffalo chips perpetuated by a small group of hypersensitive malcontents.

------snip-------

On the day the settlement with the NCAA was announced, I think Wayne Stenhjem sincerely believed he could negotiate with the tribes. He listed a number of areas in which he had held successful negotiations with tribal governments in the past.

However, within days of the settlement, Gipp, His Horse is Thunder and other tribal "leaders" held a news conference in Grand Forks and said there would be no negotiating. So who's to blame for the lack of dialogue? Even if Hoeven, Goetz and the entire congressional delegation said they would go to Standing Rock to discuss the issue, it would have done no good if none of the tribal leaders refused to participate.

The fact remains that when the AG got his settlement with the NCAA I had a feeling we were F***ed I think it accomplished nothing it just needlessly spent money (about 2 million dollars). The congressional and state leadership were missing in action and now Sioux fans have had to rely on grassroots efforts on the reservations to keep the Fighting Sioux nick name on life support.

[Goon]

I agree it would have been nice to see the state officials put the Tribal leaders on the spot.

The thing is that they didn't and should have.

[The Sicatoka]

Back to the challenge of election results and the tribal judge's ruling, look at the fallout.

Seems predictable namely because:

- tribal politics at work (as I believe the tribal chair, yeah, the guy who barely made final ballot, has the power to fire this person) and

- a particular non-UND friendly posts spewing his sewage in the comments.

[ScottM]

Back to the challenge of election results and the tribal judge's ruling, look at the fallout.

Seems predictable namely because:

- tribal politics at work (as I believe the tribal chair, yeah, the guy who barely made final ballot, has the power to fire this person) and

- a particular non-UND friendly posts spewing his sewage in the comments.

And yet some people still think it's a good idea to enter into "agreements" with these "governments".

[The Sicatoka]

Archie Fool Bear keeps trying. You have to respect the man because he seems sincere even facing great (tribal council) adversity.

This, however, seems like a play the early 1970s Oakland Raiders ran: Stabler to Cliff Branch on a 'go', throw deep, big risk, potential big reward.

... nickname supporters maintain that tribal elders had given UND the nickname in a sacred pipe ceremony 40 years ago, and that kind of ceremony never can be undone. This is important, Fool Bear argues, because the constitution says the tribe has to recognize the traditional laws and customs of the tribe.

If Mr. Fool Bear connects on that even Stabler and Branch would be impressed.

So, why the focus on the pipe ceremony by Mr. Fool Bear. What is a pipe ceremony?

The pipe ceremony invokes a relationship with the energies of the universe, and ultimately the Creator, and the bond made between earthly and spiritual realms is not to be broken. ...

It is unimaginable for a Native American to break his word after smoking the sacred pipe in the pipe ceremony. In the past, the signing of treaties was always accompanied by pipe ceremonies because Indians believed that smoking the pipe would secure the arrangement. No one would be foolish enough to lie or go back on their word once the pipe was smoked because the pipe was the vehicle for carrying their word up to the Creator. And in return, a blessing would descend from the Creator to the individuals smoking it.

The Standing Rock Constitution does say the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and its tribal government is to " ... exercise our inherent ... unwritten Tribal laws, customs, and practices ... "

Seems Mr. Fool Bear is not looking out just for UND's moniker but is looking to see that a pipe ceremony is not trampled by modern politics.

[SiouxMeNow]

Archie Fool Bear keeps trying. You have to respect the man because he seems sincere even facing great (tribal council) adversity.

This, however, seems like a play the early 1970s Oakland Raiders ran: Stabler to Cliff Branch on a 'go', throw deep, big risk, potential big reward.

If Mr. Fool Bear connects on that even Stabler and Branch would be impressed.

Especially considering how he's been c-blocked by Ron "His Days are Numbered*"

(* - as tribal chairman)

[82SiouxGuy]

Archie Fool Bear keeps trying. You have to respect the man because he seems sincere even facing great (tribal council) adversity.

This, however, seems like a play the early 1970s Oakland Raiders ran: Stabler to Cliff Branch on a 'go', throw deep, big risk, potential big reward.

If Mr. Fool Bear connects on that even Stabler and Branch would be impressed.

This may be the the only way to get a positive change made on this issue in a short time period at Standing Rock. Any political action is going to take time whether it's putting together an election or changing the mind of the tribal council. Unfortunately, there isn't much time left to make it happen.

[Ba Ba Canoosh]

This may be the the only way to get a positive change made on this issue in a short time period at Standing Rock. Any political action is going to take time whether it's putting together an election or changing the mind of the tribal council. Unfortunately, there isn't much time left to make it happen.

Let's put it this way. If Murphy gets elected and the BoHE still sticks to the Oct 1st deadline. There will be a torch and pitch fork scene that will boggle the mind. Let's hope Grant Shaft keeps his word on this.

[82SiouxGuy]

Let's put it this way. If Murphy gets elected and the BoHE still sticks to the Oct 1st deadline. There will be a torch and pitch fork scene that will boggle the mind. Let's hope Grant Shaft keeps his word on this.

The problem is that there is no certainty that the tribal council would change its mind even if Murphy is elected chairman. Murphy has not made a definitive statement of support as far as I know. If he did make such a statement and he wins convincingly, that could make a difference. The last vote of the tribal council was 8-4 against looking at the question. Some other members of the tribal council would need to change before a different result would come out of that body. My guess is that if most of the tribal council is reelected then it is a good chance that the deadline would remain because the chance of success would not be increased substantially. If there is large turnover on the tribal council then there is a better chance that the SBoHE would consider a 30-60 day extension with specific criteria. I still feel confident that a drop dead deadline for the issue has to be by the end of the year at the latest to still fit in a window for an application and approval process to get the remaining sports into the Summit League.