Gopher win.

[U2Bad1]

Next year UND shifts from a young team to a team with a lot more upper classman, Hopefully this makes a big difference. Look for lundbohm to have more of a breakout year than he did this year.

[jk]

yellowdog, your first post was so pleasant, then your second was less so. For starters, here are a few general reasons for optimism:

UND's top 11 scorers, in order: So, Fr, Jr, So, Sr, So, So, Sr, So, So, Fr.

UND's top two defensive pairs for the last half of the year: So/So, So/Fr.

Young players get better. We saw that in UND's improvement from 2001-02 to last year, and we'll see more of the same next year.

Minnesota turned out to be far better when healthy than UND when not healthy. When the tables were turned, it was more of a push, as we saw in January. No doubt MN comes into next year as a big favorite.

Mankato was not "far better" than UND last year.

- UND ended up just a touch higher in the PWR,

- Mankato won the season series 2-1-1,

- UND consistently had the better possession and offensive pressure in their matchups,

- but Mankato had the killer finishers.

- Mankato led a charmed life last year, winning and drawing games when they were outshot 50-25.

- UND was cursed last year, losing and drawing games when they played better than that.

UND loses two contributing forwards and a top defenseman they didn't have anyway down the stretch. Mankato loses a similar forward and two key defensemen. Because of the importance of those key defensemen, Mankato loses more than UND. UND's incoming forward duo of Murray/Stafford takes a back seat to no other duo in the country, including Potulny/Irmen, Backes/Morin or Pineault/Rooney. Smaby is arguably in the same league as any incoming defenseman other than Suter.

Duluth is coming on, to be sure, but they also lose at least as much up front as UND does. I don't think they bring in as much, either.

I'm convinced that UND finishes ahead of Mankato and Duluth next year. Any more Sioux early departures could change that view.

[skateshattrick]

Great objective analysis by JK. MavsFan is correct that Joseph is probably too small to go pro, but Stevenson leaving would not surprise me. I'm counting on both returning. Mankato also will have Backes, but I agree with JK that the Sioux recruiting class of Murray-Smaby-Stafford looks stronger on paper. The key again will be goaltending.

Anyone who predicts that the Sioux are slated for 4th or 5th is not being objective. Yellowdog has no objectivity. This is the same person who started a post on USCHO about why the Sioux have won 7 national championships, and then proceeded to spin the same garbage that Sid Hartman has for years about 25 year old Canadians, etc. When he was called on it, he babbled and backtracked, exposing the fact that he's one stage below developmentally disabled. I would love to sit down with Yellowdog for about 30 seconds some time and have him tell me everything that he knows about hockey. He should have some time left over to do other things.

[yellowdog]

jk,

I can buy everything in your argument except a few things. Potulny/Irmen in my opinion is better than Murray/Stafford. Our duo did it against better competition than yours. Remember alot of sioux fans still believe Parise is better than Vanek, and we all know now that this is not true.

It is nice to have all of those players back next year except one little fact, not many of them were very good. So if they don't get better you will just have an older average team. The sioux did not play well down the stretch when it counts and in order to bring optimism to sioux fans those young player should have been getting better and they were not. As soon as the sioux quit playing canisius their weeknesses were exposed. That being said, I still believe they are a good team. They, however, are not as good as some in your hood would lead you to believe.

Here is a little look at the only good teams the sioux played last year and the records against those teams.

Mankato 1-2-1

Minnesota 1-1

Denver 2-2-1

CC 0-2-2

UMD 0-2-1

St.cloud 3-1

Overall against these teams is 7-10-6 and if you take out the two worst teams in my opinion(Denver and St.cloud) that drops to 2-7-5. not a good sign. only other quality win was Michigan.

as a comparison here is minnesota

Michigan 1-1

New Hampshire 1-1-1

Ohio St. 1-0

Mankato 2-1-2

CC 2-2-1

St.Cloud 1-1-2

UMD 1-1

Denver 1-0-1

Ferris St. 1-0

Overall 11-7-8 without Denver and St.cloud 9-6-5. This also was a much tougher schedule than nodak played. I only used Tournament teams and I left Mercyhurst out of it for obvious reasons.

You also try to suggest that the sioux got better at the end. 7-11-2 in their last 20. Those 7 wins were against the following quality opponents. Wisconsin x2, Alaska x2, Denver x2, and Michigan Tech. Not exactly burning it up. 21 games back was a win against Minnesota which is the last quality sioux victory almost 4 months ago. I am just trying to point out some things here. They are not as good as some of the sioux fans think and the signs for failure were quite obvious. All of the other things you talk about still do not help the sioux's dreadful goaltending. Just my two cents worth

[yellowdog]

Great objective analysis by JK. MavsFan is correct that Joseph is probably too small to go pro, but Stevenson leaving would not surprise me. I'm counting on both returning. Mankato also will have Backes, but I agree with JK that the Sioux recruiting class of Murray-Smaby-Stafford looks stronger on paper. The key again will be goaltending.

Anyone who predicts that the Sioux are slated for 4th or 5th is not being objective. Yellowdog has no objectivity. This is the same person who started a post on USCHO about why the Sioux have won 7 national championships, and then proceeded to spin the same garbage that Sid Hartman has for years about 25 year old Canadians, etc. When he was called on it, he babbled and backtracked, exposing the fact that he's one stage below developmentally disabled. I would love to sit down with Yellowdog for about 30 seconds some time and have him tell me everything that he knows about hockey. He should have some time left over to do other things.

That's not nice, but the only one dumb enough to believe all of that was you. I think you were the one who actually believed I was sid, so that shows your intelligence level now doesn't it. I had no hostility in my posts (ok very little) and you come in saying this stuff which shows your intelligence level. I'm sorry my developmentally disabled self cannot hold a candle to your hockey knowledge skateshattrick, maybe someday you can teach me how you got so smart and gullible. You never addressed the gopher recruiting class oh great one, how do they stack up? Please tell me your opinion because it obviously is the right one. And let me guess the gophers, mavs, and sioux are all your favorite teams so your objectivity cannot be questioned.

[DAR]

I'd say there is little chance any other Sioux player will leave early if they do they need their head examined. Look at Brian Lundbohm as a classic case of a guy who made a big mistake by leaving early. He will never see the NHL and will have a hard time making the roster of the AHL Milwaukee Admirals next year. Even Travis Roche has not yet had more of a small cup of coffee in the NHL. With the success of the Wild this year, I would say it is a long shot for him to make the team next year. It seems that the Sioux seem to lose players early a lot more than the Gophers do. I live in Mpls. and from what I have read in the papers it sounds like everyone will be coming back. As much as I hate to admit it, they will be the clear favorite in the WCHA. The Sioux MUST have consistent goaltending to be a contender next year.

[The Sicatoka]

Only 2 guys leaving and I think 6 coming in means less time for some who saw alot of time this year.

Let's think about that for a second:

Minuses: DeMarchi, Angell, Roberg (?), Mike Erickson, Dan Welch.

The last two have been gone a semester already. Roberg? No comment. Angell wasn't breaking the line-up down the stretch. The only loss is DeMarchi.

Recruiting class? Goalie Briggs. Defensemen Vanelli and Taylor. Forwards Potulny, Irmen, and Howe.

Goldie's Roster.

Adding Briggs takes some of the practice load off the other two. That makes sense.

Only losing one defenseman but bringing in two when there are 9 on the roster already? Ten defensemen on the roster? That tells me that Lucia expects to lose one, maybe two, to the pros. Normally teams carry 8 or 9 defensemen.

Fifteen forwards on the current roster. However, that counts Welch (gone already) and Erickson (already back to USHL). Anthony (didn't play down the stretch) is a senior. That would be trading three for three even up. However, as mentioned, the potential exists for guys who've played the last two seasons to be wearing ties during games.

I think the jury is still out on Vanek, Ballard, Paul Martin, and probably Tallackson's (did his stock rise the weekend or what?) status for next year. A guy like Vanek or Ballard (high draft picks), teams may want to get them into the fold now, before the new CBA a year from now.

I won't guess at where teams will be for about three months. I want to see who stays and who goes because anyone who believes all the going is already (around the whole league) done is reality challenged.

[Greyeagle]

Let's think about that for a second:

Minuses: DeMarchi, Angell, Roberg (?), Mike Erickson, Dan Welch.

The last two have been gone a semester already. Roberg? No comment. Angell wasn't breaking the line-up down the stretch. The only loss is DeMarchi.

I suspect you mean Anthony.

If Ballard & Martin come back I would not be surprised to see Kennedy (hopefully) take a redshirt. His upside is high but he will not see much ice team if the D all stay.

[streakygopher]

Thanks to all for the kind comments. We're giddy about a back to back win in Buffalo, and once again, the trophy stays in the west where it belongs. It wasn't a cheap win, that's for sure. I'm glad Minnesota put on a show, proving to the country for two straight years which conference is the best.

UNH was a good hockey team that the U made look ordinary. Our transition out of the defensive zone was flawless. Though the entire team played their "A" game, Martin, Ballard, DeMarchi, Martin, Stevens, Ballard all played their "A+" game. To me, that was the biggest difference in the game. UNH simply did not spend enough time in Minnesota's end to mount much of a scoring chance. Vanek's play speaks for itself, but let's not forget the rest of the team, who applied pressure for 60 minutes. Ayers had his finger in the dike for two periods, but once that second goal got scored it was like pouring gasoline on the fire!

On Matt DeMarchi...many Sioux fans simply don't give him his due. He was absolutely rock solid in the last two months of the season. He will definitely be missed. I see him as a productive NHL player (excellent skater, has size, good shot).

The most vulnerable to lose to the NHL? Vanek...hands down, and I agree that he raised in NHL stock this weekend. He said it will take a 7-figure offer to get him. Ballard wants to come back and he's not ready to go anyway. Martin and Tallackson need more development.

As for the Sioux, I think your first line will be awesome next year, but I don't know much about your depth. The other thing I don't know about (and would appreciate opinions) is if you have any defensemen who can carry the puck up the ice, ala Ballard, Martin. I believe this is critical to team success. It made the difference against UNH.

[The Sicatoka]

Greyeagle: Oops. One of those A's.

Let's put the rubber on the road right here.

The over and under for Minnesota players with eligibility remaining to leave for the pros right now is set at 2.5. Who's taking which side (over or under)?

[Ghost of Smith]

Would any of you who live in GF or ND mind if I bunked up in your house for at least two weeks or until this Gopher hysteria mellows out? I am a person who truly doesn't rub in wins because I'm always afraid of getting it back in return. These fans are absolutely ridiculous. Seriously if we don't win it next year and the Gophers three-peat I may have to move out of the state. Here is my favorite, "the Gophers are in the WCHA why don't you cheer for them"? What a load. I will cheer for the Gophers just as soon as I see the Viking fans cheer for the Packer in the Super Bowl.

[Greyeagle]

Would any of you who live in GF or ND mind if I bunked up in your house for at least two weeks or until this Gopher hysteria mellows out

Did Grand Forks get traded to South Dakota?

[Hammy]

Ballard was on Joe Schmit's Sports Wrap last night with Coach Lucia and was asked if he was coming back. His response was that he wasn't ready and needed to get another year. Coach Lucia then went on to say that he is biased but he feels none of the guys are ready for the NHL and didn't feel there would be any early departures. He said maybe the year after though.

Vanek was on Rosen's Sports Sunday and was asked about his status and he said he was going to come back and try to repeat. He was pretty sure about that but you could tell he didn't want to paint himself into a corner 100% when Rosen pressed him a little.... but he was sincere in that he seemed to be pretty sure he'd be back. Of course, Riddle, Potulny and Koalska all piped up as if they were gonna hold him to that comment. I guess Vanek's dad was telling people in Buffalo that his son would be back at the U next year.

I think Paul Martin will be back. I think what clinched it for me was the signing of Hale by NJ. I don't see them throwing out big money on two defensive prospects when neither may be ready for a regular shift in the NHL. Besides, I hear Martin is saying to people he'll be coming back for his final year.

Of course, big money can change people's minds but I think it looks like everybody is pretty sincere in their desire to return. I am sure a lot of teams will be reluctant to sign a lot of prospects too with the bargaining agreement needing to be renewed.

Its more fun to have the best players stay in college but it is understandable in a number of cases when they go early (like Taffe).

[Ghost of Smith]

I had meant to say to people who live in GF or elsewhere in ND. Thank you for the correction my fur wearing friend.

[dickgraham]

Andy Schneider moves the puck up ice with authority. He will only get better as he moves into his junior year. Lee Marvin started to move the puck up ice with some confidence the last month or so of the season, his sophmore season should be very interesting. Schneider is a hockey stud and I will be very surprised if he does not have a good to great NHL career. The entire Sioux defensive core is big and mobile but they need to make smarter passing choices and play better position hockey.

DG

[Hammy]

By the way Sica, don't bet on Mike Howe coming to MN next year. More than likely he'll play another year of juniors because he knows he won't get a lot of ice time next year. Last I heard, he was leaning toward playing junior again.

As for the defensive count, Lucia hasn't been afraid to use Joey Martin as a forward during a lot of his college career so that may be why he doesn't mind bringing in two defensemen next year. JMart has actually looked pretty solid as a grinding forward so maybe they envision him in that role more (I don't know).

I wouldn't be shocked if Kennedy does redshirt or play another year of junior hockey somewhere.

BTW, I enjoy Sica's speculation. Tells me he is concerned about what the Gophers are capable of next year.

[skateshattrick]

I agree with Streakygopher that the Sioux depth is of concern, as is the ability of the Sioux defensemen to carry the puck and help the transition game like Ballard and Martin. One poster insists that Schneider's stats are similar to Ballard's and makes a pretty convincing argument. I have not seen Smaby, but I understand that he can carry the puck. In my opinion, that [along with goaltending] are the 2 most glaring weaknesses of the Sioux teams the past several years. The Sioux have always had that type of player, from Ian Kidd, Russ Parent, Curtis Murphy, Brad Williamson to Travis Roche. They seem to be missing that part of the game.

I also agree that the Gophers defense is very underrated, and the strength of the team. Paul Martin is very good, Ballard is great offensively, Harrington is a very impressive freshman, and DeMarchi finally stopped taking penalties and started playing hockey and looked very good after Christmas.

The Sioux forwards will be fine if everyone comes back.

Parise-Bochenski-Murray

Stafford-Massen-McMahon

Lundbohm-Prpich-Fylling.

If the Sioux get good goaltending, and an offensive defensmen, they will compete with anyone. Blais said before this year that he did not think this team would compete for a national championship, but that his goals were a top 5 finish in the WCHA, an appearance at the Final 5, and an NCAA appearance. He repeatedly stated,however, that the Sioux would compete for a national championship in 2003-04. I tend to believe him after what he did from 1997-2001. Parise and Bochenski will be a year older, and Murray and Stafford should be impact freshman.

[jk]

Potulny/Irmen in my opinion is better than Murray/Stafford. Our duo did it against better competition than yours.

as a comparison here is minnesota

Michigan 1-1

New Hampshire 1-1-1

Ohio St. 1-0

Mankato 2-1-2

CC 2-2-1

St.Cloud 1-1-2

UMD 1-1

Denver 1-0-1

Ferris St. 1-0

You also try to suggest that the sioux got better at the end.

All of the other things you talk about still do not help the sioux's dreadful goaltending.

yellowdog,

Apologies for cutting and pasting your post, but I didn't do it to take anything out of context.

The relative values of the forward recruits will, of course, be determined over the next four seasons. I do agree that the USHL boys played tougher competition, and you won't see me say anywhere that they're not outstanding recruits. I think over time the Sioux recruits will be shown to be not worse than any other duo out there. We will have to wait and see.

It's interesting to me how non-dominant MN's records against those teams are when you list them out like that. MN really got hot at the right time. The only quality opponents MN had an unblemished record against were OSU and Ferris. That's not a rip on MN; I'm just surprised.

I can't see where I tried to suggest the Sioux got better at the end. I sure don't think they did. I do think they were a better team in 2002-03 than in 2001-02, even considering the fade.

Goaltending. ding.ding.ding.ding. I like a lot of things about the Sioux roster. I think the forwards and defense match up favorably with almost every other team. But you are right that all that talent will be wasted without quality goaltending. Brandt played well in the clutch at the end of the year, so I have some hope for next year; but I do think that goaltending continues to be the biggest questionmark for the team.

DAR,

I agree that none of the Sioux players should leave, as they are just not ready. The risk is that their NHL team wants them to leave to get them into their development program. I consider this to be an especially bigger risk for NHL-style big physical defensemen. When your future employer tells you that the next step is the AHL, and tells you that you are ready to take that step, and shows you a big check, maybe you go even if you would not otherwise.

streaky,

As to the Sioux forward depth, I think it will be good. If the first line is Parise, Bochenski, Murray, then I think there are five other forwards who will produce well: Lundbohm, Massen, McMahon, Prpich and Stafford. That's pretty much three full lines that are at the very least solid. The remaining talent available to fill in the fourth line will be of a quality that only about five other teams will better (MN, Michigan, BC and probably a few others).

[Goon]

While it is reasonably fun to speculate on who goes/stays, most Title teams do have a runoff of their core players to the NHL. Minnie lost most theirs due to them being seniors. I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 juniors head out this summer. Rather than worrying about Vanek et al., I'd rather concentrate on Money, Parise, etc. ... and let them worry about Vanek et al.

Right now, as I look at the WCHA, I think it will be another fight to the end, and most likely we should have at least one team in the FF. Hopefully, it's UND.

Scott_M,

I think you brought up some good points. Of course most of the fans on POI_Lite think there is no chance what so ever that they will lose any of their current team, its 100 percent coming back. Of course most Sioux fans know that after the title is over Pro teams start throwing money around at players and it makes it aweful hard to stay. I am pretty sure that Vanek will probably get his Million dollar signing bonus. Thats a given. Well see...

[hockeygrl]

I really didn't want to Gophers to win because they are WAY too cocky! After the game, I could see their heads getting bigger as they put on their National Championship caps. I had a feeling that they were going to win, and I was not surprised that Vanek scored the gamewinner. Once again the Gophers needed a NON-MINNESOTAN to win a National Championship for them!

[Hammy]

Well Goon, I guess after reading your "brilliance" over on Unvarnished Truth and various boards over the years, we'll take your word for it.

[The Sicatoka]

BTW, I enjoy Sica's speculation. Tells me he is concerned about what the Gophers are capable of next year. 

I go by Heisenberg because I'm not sure where else to look. If I was Howe I'd stay away or buy a lot of ties.

I'm looking at who's returning what because to be the best you have to beat what all the other guys have.

Here's one eye-opener tossed my way already this morning: Believe it or not, as it stands right now, Minnesota does not return the most conference goals, assists, or points next season. That designation goes to Mankato. It's not by much, but it's there.

[Hammy]

Sica,

While that may be true, the Mavs may have a weaker defense next year than they had this year. Considering how porous their defense was this year, that could spell trouble for them.

But I'd expect them to be in the top 3 or 4 of the league next year.

[jimdahl]

There's no doubt we all have our biases and many of us Sioux fans would like to see a weakened Gopher team (though it would be even more fun to beat them next year with no excuses). However, I think the speculation here might be a little more objective on this one.

College players going directly to the NHL is really a pretty recent phenomenon that has ramped up dramatically the last few years. Year after year we've seen the claims that players are going to stay, until the money is on the table. That's particularly true after a championship. Though recent Gopher recruiting successes have resulted in a record number of drafted players on the team, the Gophers haven't yet experienced the revolving door because they're relatively new to success in the direct-to-NHL era.

Maybe the Gopher players have more loyalty to UMN, have more interest in getting a college degree, or Lucia is better at making them stay. My guess, until it's proven wrong, is that money talks for almost everyone with pro athletics aspirations.

[The Sicatoka]

Hammy: Very true. No Runkel and no Bourne won't help them.

But we are yet to know all of the off-season changes for all the teams.