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The Sicatoka

Conference Realignments - Take 2

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The situation at the Illinois directionals is getting more serious, if that is possible.  Western Illinois has a projected freshman enrollment of 815, which will be down more than 30%.  Budget cuts could be massive and further tuition costs rising even more.  The Summit could have another Chicago St on its hands.  There is talk that WIU will drop to DII to cut costs.  Under the current Summit League sports system, WIU has both baseball and men’s soccer, which are critical to keep tSL’s autobid.  The Summit League needs new schools, preferably that play football.

https://capitolfax.com/2018/05/22/wiu-looking-at-drastic-enrollment-declines-deficit-spending-increases/

Illinois residents are sending their kids out of state for college education, as out-of-state tuition is often cheaper than instate Illinois tuition.  Iowa St and others has seen a massive rise in Illinois residents that are students.

http://www.mcdonoughvoice.com/news/20180522/declining-enrollment-deficit-prompt-concerns-about-reserves

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14 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

http://www.thesummitleague.org/general/2017-18/releases/20180522mvqj3e

One item I don’t like from tSL relocation release is Kelby Krabbenhoft is prominently mentioned.  As a former Augie athlete and now booster, he has major influence.  Augie has until June 1st to get a Summit bid.

Kelby Krabbenhoft was not a former Augie athlete, he didn't even attend the school. He was an athlete at Moorhead State and later attended Mankato to get his Masters. The facts on him are really easy to find. Is he an Augie booster? Yes, he had a son attend the school to play FB. Of course he also had a son attend Wisconsin and a daughter attend Moorhead. More then an Augie booster, Krabbenhoft is a SIOUX FALLS booster, thus the feather in his cap getting the league offices to move closer to the geographical center of the league.

Where you and I can agree, I do not want Augie (not many SDSU fans want Augie) in the Summit. Maybe moving the league offices is a bone thrown to Kelby thus taking Augustana off the map. The Sioux Falls media have been pimping Augie to the Summit. The school administration, pummeled by the local media has been coy about a possible move. Several have openly discussed the problems Augustana faces in fundraising, student population, facilities, and long term viability at the D1 level. Even their President admitted that they may be better off staying D2 and that a lot of their boosters like that they have been able to have success at the D2 level. A lot of the Augie talk seems to surround the league tournament and some boosters wanting them to be part of the SLT. Moving to D1 for one weekend a year would be a stupid move. I do not believe that the leadership at Augie are that stupid. 

I highly doubt SDSU, USD or NDSU are interested in bringing Augie in the league. Would the league risk losing SDSU or NDSU by bringing in Augie? Do they want the two schools to begin looking for league options? 

The continued success of the league as a whole relies on the two XDSU's sticking around.  

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On 5/24/2018 at 9:09 AM, jacksfan29 said:

I highly doubt SDSU, USD or NDSU are interested in bringing Augie in the league. Would the league risk losing SDSU or NDSU by bringing in Augie? Do they want the two schools to begin looking for league options? 

The continued success of the league as a whole relies on the two XDSU's sticking around.  

Fortunately for you, reactionary fans with an inflated view of their school's importance don't make those decisions.  As an occupational hazard, Athletic Directors tend to take a more balanced view.  Let me know when Justin Sell gets a call from the Missouri Valley.  Or better yet, the Big 12.

The continued success of the league is not dependent on just two schools.  Unless you think you  can have the same success as an independent?  With UND now in the league you will see a couple more games a year where opposing fans actually travel to Brookings.  Same would be true with Augie.  Same with Mankato.

If you think SDSU is too "big time" to stay in the Summit, what are your other options?

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The XDSU’s aren’t going anywhere.  The MVC throws up when they are brought up and with Loyola’s success this year, they are only considering major upgrades like St Louis or Dayton.  Murray St is even an upgrade because they bring fans to St Louis and often make the dance.  The XDSU’s don’t have enough fans watching on tv to be worth anything.

But the Summit doesn’t need more NCC2.0 schools, but more flagships like the Montanas and Idaho.   WIU and IPFW are like overgrown Moorhead St’s with no fanbase.  ORU is like Augie with a wider spread alumni base.

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Since I am posting on the UND site, I may as well get your opinion on an idea I have kicked around.  With UND, Denver and Omaha all in the Summit, what would you guys think about the League trying to sponsor hockey?  You need six teams minimum, but they might be able to add three affiliate programs to start.  Possibly St Cloud, Mankato, Air Force?  (I noticed that AF is a geographic outlier in their hockey conference).  It might get some Summit teams to consider adding the sport in the future, and in the meantime it would be one more buffer against losing the auto-bid.

I'm sure you guys are very happy in your current hockey conference, and this is a terrible idea that would never happen, but I'm just spit-balling.  When Summit Commissioner Douple was asked about expansion in light of losing the auto-bid, he said he wasn't worried about that, because we could just add affiliate members if needed.  That got me thinking.  I think that adding UND may have been good for keeping Denver and Omaha in the fold because of hockey.  And that is a sport that can actually draw fans, despite the high costs.

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You'd be better off trying to convince the Summit League and National Collegiate Hockey Conference (NCHC) to merge administrative structures under one roof. 

UND and DU were the driving force to formation of the NCHC. Omaha is an original member. I don't see that breaking up any time soon as the NCHC (UND, DU, Duluth) has won the last three NCAA DI titles. 

 

Want to ensure the Summit keeps its MBB autobid? Start Summit League football. Done. 

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Don’t think DII or DIII teams count for affiliate members unless DII doesn’t sponsor the sport..  Dallas Baptist baseball is in the MVC, but that league can’t count a DII as an official member for their autobid.  Dallas Baptist is a power baseball team in the MVC and increasing recruiting in Texas, but it’s DI status in that sport only doesn’t count for much.  Hartwick dropped men’s soccer even though it messed with the Sun Belt because the NCAA doesn’t recognize DII teams playing up a level for conference purposes anymore.  Dallas Baptist is the nearly the only DII baseball team playing at a DI level when their used to be many like Hawaii-Hilo, NYIT, LeMoyne and others.  The same rules apply differently to hockey, which DII doesn’t sponsor it.

Unaffiliated DI baseball and men’s soccer teams are not existent in the Midwest.  Have to pry one away from the MVC or Horizon, which won’t happen because the conferences are at the minimum too.  The cheapest way is to force USD and UND to start either baseball or men’s soccer and that won’t happen.  It’s either sponsor football or bust.  Double if he has a functioning brain should know that, but he won’t admit it publically.  Moving the MVFC to under the Summit roof too doesn’t do any good, because the autobid rules require at least six FCS members that are full conference members.

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Good info on Hockey.  Also on D-II affiliates.

Adding UNC as a baseball affiliate could be a prelude to full membership.  The WAC, where they are affiliates now, has 9 teams.  The WAC also has 11 men's soccer teams, including Air Force....

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28 minutes ago, kiyoat said:

Good info on Hockey.  Also on D-II affiliates.

Adding UNC as a baseball affiliate could be a prelude to full membership.  The WAC, where they are affiliates now, has 9 teams.  The WAC also has 11 men's soccer teams, including Air Force....

Incarnate Word and Houston Baptist men’s soccer could be poached from the WAC.  The Sun Belt is probably trying to get them too.

But they probably would loathe to affiliate with the Summit having WIU and IPFW in it, because their issues with the Summit are well known to AD’s or would be just with phone calls.

At least one of the sports need to have a full contingent of six teams from the conference.  The other one can have four teams plus two affiliates.  Some leagues have more affiliates, but they already meet the autobid need with other sports.  The NCAA has issued a ruling on this issue and is rather involved.  The Summit will face this if any of IPFW, WIU, Omaha or ORU leave.

Wrestling doesn’t qualify as a team sport, but the EWL has four DII Pennsylvania schools that play up in that sport and associate with three other schools that are members of a non-wrestling sponsored conferences.

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9 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

But they probably would loathe to affiliate with the Summit having WIU and IPFW in it, because their issues with the Summit are well known to AD’s or would be just with phone calls.

At least one of the sports need to have a full contingent of six teams from the conference.  The other one can have four teams plus two affiliates.  Some leagues have more affiliates, but they already meet the autobid need with other sports.  The NCAA has issued a ruling on this issue and is rather involved.  The Summit will face this if any of IPFW, WIU, Omaha or ORU leave.

Interesting.  What issues?  Texas would extend our footprint even farther, but if some are considering Grand Canyon or New Mexico State, I guess you do what you have to.

Definitely sounds involved.  I hope Douple is on top of it, but to me he seems a little too reactive rather than proactive on the subject.  He needs to squash the perception that the Summit is vulnerable, even if it is only perception.  JMO

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2 hours ago, kiyoat said:

Interesting.  What issues?  Texas would extend our footprint even farther, but if some are considering Grand Canyon or New Mexico State, I guess you do what you have to.

Definitely sounds involved.  I hope Douple is on top of it, but to me he seems a little too reactive rather than proactive on the subject.  He needs to squash the perception that the Summit is vulnerable, even if it is only perception.  JMO

IPFW has been flirting with the Horizon for years and wants out of the Summit like Oakland, Valparaiso, and IUPUI and almost all other Horizon teams before them.   It’s extremely naive like most SDSU fans seem to think that IPFW is happy now.  WIU is experiencing major budget and enrollment issues.  Douple made the stability  perception issue even worse by moving the HQ to Sioux Falls. 

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3 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

IPFW has been flirting with the Horizon for years and wants out of the Summit like Oakland, Valparaiso, and IUPUI and almost all other Horizon teams before them.   It’s extremely naive like most SDSU fans seem to think that IPFW is happy now.  WIU is experiencing major budget and enrollment issues.  Douple made the stability  perception issue even worse by moving the HQ to Sioux Falls. 

Gotcha.  THOSE issues.  I thought you meant the Texas schools have had an issue with WIU and UPFW.  As far as WIU's financial problems, you could say the same about most public schools in the states of Illinois and Missouri, including UMKC.  It's concerning, no doubt, but I don't get the feeling WIU wants to go anywhere else.  They are a conference founder, and aren't as much of a geographic outlier as Ft Wayne.  We need them for football if we are ever going to break away from the MVFC (or just for voting leverage)

With Ft Wayne, I honestly wouldn't blame them for wanting into the Horizon.  Their travel budget alone makes that move worthwhile.  

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32 minutes ago, kiyoat said:

Gotcha.  THOSE issues.  I thought you meant the Texas schools have had an issue with WIU and UPFW.  As far as WIU's financial problems, you could say the same about most public schools in the states of Illinois and Missouri, including UMKC.  It's concerning, no doubt, but I don't get the feeling WIU wants to go anywhere else.  They are a conference founder, and aren't as much of a geographic outlier as Ft Wayne.  We need them for football if we are ever going to break away from the MVFC (or just for voting leverage)

With Ft Wayne, I honestly wouldn't blame them for wanting into the Horizon.  Their travel budget alone makes that move worthwhile.  

WIU is entering into Chicago St range five when it was comparatively healthier.  The WIU President has been interviewing for lesser positions elsewhere because he knows it’s a sinking ship.  WIU Fb may want the MVFC, but WIU can’t afford to be flying to Summit games when the whole league has been shifting West.  Back ten years ago, Douple said the Summit wouldn’t consider Denver when they were given an ultimatum to leave by the Sun Belt.  Things change, and WIU has certainly gone downhill and WIU has a pittance of an endowment to tide them over. The OVC is the bus league they need.  IPFW (soon PUFW) is in an entirely healthier situation- FW is building a new downtown arena and they want to showcase it in the Horizon.

The Missouri schools have benefitted from the mess that Illinois higher education is at the directionals.  Mo out state tuition is similar to Illinois in state tuition.  UMKC is a much different and healthier situation than at Illinois directionals.

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Augustana plays for the DII baseball championship tomorrow.  They have mowed down the field in both regionals and finals without a loss.  Some SDSU fans insist that Augie will get a Summit League invite now, as they won a DII championship in basketball too (can’t remember if it was men’s or women’s ).  All this is a bunch of message board malarkey.  It’s already too late for a DII to DI invite now.

https://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/baseball/d2

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On 6/1/2018 at 11:02 PM, SiouxVolley said:

Augustana plays for the DII baseball championship tomorrow.  They have mowed down the field in both regionals and finals without a loss.  Some SDSU fans insist that Augie will get a Summit League invite now, as they won a DII championship in basketball too (can’t remember if it was men’s or women’s ).  All this is a bunch of message board malarkey.  It’s already too late for a DII to DI invite now.

https://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/baseball/d2

So they couldnt get a waiver? You know like the one you claimed UND was going to get?

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11 minutes ago, bison73 said:

So they couldnt get a waiver? You know like the one you claimed UND was going to get?

Given it's an annual deadline I'd posit "no". 

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6 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Krabbenhoft talks a good game for Augie going to the Summit. Later, he talks of creating a 10 year plan.  It’s already too late for a DII to get invited to DI.  Bisonville and SD boards can calm down. 

http://kwsn.com/podcasts/sports-talk-with-kwsn/5093/sanford-ceo-kelby-krabbenhoft-on-why-augie-would-succeed-in-div-i/#.WxqVPWCCkTM.twitter

 

I don't think Augie was targeting this year, they seem to be gearing up more for next year or a bit later based on what Kelby is talking about. 

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Sanford Health has donated $5 million to endow MSU-Mankato’s men’s basketball.

http://www.msumavericks.com/news/2016/12/7/general-minnesota-state-athletics-receives-5-million-gift-commitment-for-scholarship-endowment-from-sanford-health.aspx?path=general

its almost as if the Summit should change its name to the Sanford Health Conference, as Sanford seems tome trying to buy the way in for Augie and Mankato.  They already nearly own USD and SDSU and have much influence at NDSU.

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46 minutes ago, FargoBison said:

I wouldn't mind bringing in Mankato, at least they would bring a MN school into the fold. 

Augie is nothing but a parasite. 

Why not offer to switch IPFW for UWGB for no cost?  Offer to help UWGB with scheduling if they add hockey.  Green Bay would be an outlier for the Horizon if Milwaukee gets in the MVC and IPFW is right in the center of the Horizon.  

But you never hear any viable proposals from the Summit as Douple doesn’t have vision.  Don’t need more DII teams as that signifies the Summit League is a bottom feeder to even recruits..

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5 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Why not offer to switch IPFW for UWGB for no cost?  Offer to help UWGB with scheduling if they add hockey.  Green Bay would be an outlier for the Horizon if Milwaukee gets in the MVC and IPFW is right in the center of the Horizon.  

But you never hear any viable proposals from the Summit as Douple doesn’t have vision.  Don’t need more DII teams as that signifies the Summit League is a bottom feeder to even recruits..

I agree Douple lacks vision in pretty much every area. He has pretty much lucked into being in the right time and situation with the Dakota schools and he is milking it for all it is worth. Going along with this Augie farce is taking it to far. 

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39 minutes ago, FargoBison said:

I agree Douple lacks vision in pretty much every area. He has pretty much lucked into being in the right time and situation with the Dakota schools and he is milking it for all it is worth. Going along with this Augie farce is taking it to far. 

If I was President of IPFW, WIU, or ORU, would strategically leave in a split second if had a decent offer (IPFW to Horizon, WIU to Horizon or OVC, and ORU to WAC).  Those are so much better spots for them.  Douple and local sport writers continue to think they are perfectly happy.  That’s incompetence of the highest order.

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A poster on a realignment board insists Air Force will be joining the American for football in two years.

The question was raised where would they go for Olympic sports.  The MVC has rejected them in the past.  The Summit League could be a viable home.  Even have Denver as a viable travel partner.

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