Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago

[redwing77]

Uh no... if they want to take away land that is now the property of the "public domain" such as Government land and private property that lies around it (like the city of Fargo, my parent's house, etc.) then they're going to run into serious problems like: "We are charging them rent and they're not paying it! The courts look the other way!" Seriously, they can make all the claims they want. It's not going to make it happen.

[darell1976]

Simple solution get rid of the reservations and if you don't like America there are a border to the north and one to the south pick which country you want to live. We own this land this is America and if you don't like it LEAVE!!! If you don't we will shove a tank up your @ss until you either comply with American laws or leave the country.

[Oxbow6]

Simple solution get rid of the reservations and if you don't like America there are a border to the north and one to the south pick which country you want to live. We own this land this is America and if you don't like it LEAVE!!! If you don't we will shove a tank up your @ss until you either comply with American laws or leave the country.

Subtle , but very persuading and effective !

[darell1976]

Subtle , but very persuading and effective !

Thats my way of not beating around the bush and getting to the point.

[Galley]

Here is a map of the Lakota Nation.

[SiouxMD]

Here is a map of the Lakota Nation.

I'm good. My university is good. My hometown is good. My grandparents now live in the Panhandle of North Dakota but their good too.

[SiouxMeNow]

On the upside...we'd get rid of Dickinson! (FINALLY! )

[Sal Atticum]

Simple solution get rid of the reservations and if you don't like America there are a border to the north and one to the south pick which country you want to live. We own this land this is America and if you don't like it LEAVE!!! If you don't we will shove a tank up your @ss until you either comply with American laws or leave the country.

So who is the "we" in your statement?

"We own this land." Do you? I certainly don't.

It makes me warm and fuzzy inside every time someone from North Dakota comes out with "if you don't like it, leave." Such a solution to everything.

[redwing77]

So who is the "we" in your statement?

"We own this land." Do you? I certainly don't.

It makes me warm and fuzzy inside every time someone from North Dakota comes out with "if you don't like it, leave." Such a solution to everything.

So then what is the solution?

"Oh, you don't want to uphold those treaties? Ok, here's your land back." Uh... nope.

The fact of the matter is that, wrong as it was for us to "take" the land, it was taken and signed over. There is no viable solution to reverse this. It simply WILL NOT happen.

The reservation idea was a bad idea conceived out of a poor excuse saying "this way they get some land." What a mistake. However, the reversal isn't to pull out of that land. It would, I'd dread, demand a violent action on the part of the Lakota and I don't see them doing something so stupid.

So, again, what should be the solution? Give them semi-autonomous governmental powers while still granting them every right an American citizen gets? Done. Give millions of dollars in aid and programming both on and off the reservation (whether or not the people see it is another argument)? Done. Give Native Americans a near monopoly on an industry (casinos)? Done.

What else do they want? They have equal rights available to them. They just have to act and live up to the same code every other American citizen lives up to. Sure, there is a lot of poverty on the reservation. Why? Is it because of the White Man? Nope. Is it because we set Native Americans up to fail? Nope. Is it because the Native Americans hold U.S. education in such low regard? Not necessarily, though there is an awful lot of Native Americans who never graduate high school.

I believe it is the word "conformity" that holds Native Americans back. Underneath this umbrella comes words like "motivation," "culture," and "look to the future," but I think conformity poses the biggest problem. I believe that many Native Americans see conformity towards U.S. societal goals and expectations (such as "whatever you want to do, you can do, provided you do it by the rules and get it yourself") as turning their backs on their own culture and self-identity. I cannot imagine the alarm that is felt towards the loss of the language of the Native Americans over the years, but I can also imagine that it isn't the White Man's fault directly that causes this... or at least it shouldn't be.

In order to succeed in the U.S. society you have going to have to be willing to:

1. work hard, pay your dues, and set aside personal ambition for a while in order to build enough foundation to go after your personal ambition

2. have to balance family and professional life to the point that professional goals can be met while still being able to meet most, if not all, family needs.

3. think for themselves. Add to this one that success isn't something that is given to you, it is earned through hard work, failure, and risk.

4. do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get on the path towards success, whether it can be done near home or away from it. That means graduating high school, getting into college, graduating college, and working your way up the ladder. This may mean moving thousands of miles away from home.

5. Find a medium between your culture and the societal expectations that are foreign to yours. We are a "mixed salad" if you will here in the U.S., but in order to succeed, we can't have each component off in its own side of the bowl.

6. Take the time to fix it. Fixing the problem won't happen overnight. It probably won't happen in a generation. According to a friend of mine, who does social work for immigrant families, it could take up to 3 generations to get a family out of poverty if all the conditions (such as motivation, dedication, and willingness to "play by the rules") are in place.

7. Put aside the past injustices and work towards a better tommorrow. Hate the white man for what he did in the past, it is your right, but remember that it is the same white man that can help you toward success. Play by the rules and win. Turn your back and you lose.

7a. Put aside the entitlement attitude. We (U.S.) do not live in a socialist or communistic society. We do not give you handouts in the real world. It's not our job to ensure you succeed. It is our job to put the tools in place so that, should you put the effort into it (including, unfortunately, the sacrifices that go with it) you can do it on your own.

[Fetch]

so are they abandoning their other properties ?

Maybe we can have another Homestead act & land rush

I always felt cheated by the last ones & my immediate family didn't get any of the RR Valley Grandpa went out to western ND & lost his butt but there is still hope with mineral rights

[darell1976]

So who is the "we" in your statement?

"We own this land." Do you? I certainly don't.

It makes me warm and fuzzy inside every time someone from North Dakota comes out with "if you don't like it, leave." Such a solution to everything.

We in my statement is the United States of America no one else owns this land this isn't Indian terriory or Dakota Territory or even France (they owned the RR Valley) This is the USA and if they don't want any part of the USA then there is Mexico to the south or Canada to the north its the American way or no way. This seceding BS was done before remember the Civil War.

[sioux_xuois]

Simple solution get rid of the reservations and if you don't like America there are a border to the north and one to the south pick which country you want to live. We own this land this is America and if you don't like it LEAVE!!! If you don't we will shove a tank up your @ss until you either comply with American laws or leave the country.

And you wonder why the Sioux people don't want UND to use their name.........lol.

Before you go telling the only people in this country who have a legitimate claim on it to leave, you should do your homework there, darell. That mentality of yours is the main reason that the name will eventually change. Look at this board, it is suppose to be discussing the Sioux name, instead it is a place to pick apart everything related to the Sioux people and show why those who oppose the name are wrong for doing so.

So what if Means is a joke, that doesn't mean disbanding reservations. But I guess it makes you a big man talking smack about people who can not defend themselves.

And to read that only now you see that Lakota = friend? wow..........the next thing you realize is that the Sioux are really the Lakota, or Dakota, or Nakota, or that the map of the "Fighting Sioux" lands only slightly encompasses ND.....does that mean we need the approval of the other Sioux indians before we can use the logo?

I've been apart of the UND community for over 20 years now, and I would rather not post my opinion at all, but your ignorance has forced me to let you know that there is a rather large group of fans that would love to keep the name, but if it comes at the expense of hurting others, then change it and be done with it. As for your comments, they go both ways, love it or leave it. If you want I can even give you a ride to the border, either one.

[Goon]

7a. Put aside the entitlement attitude. We (U.S.) do not live in a socialist or communistic society. We do not give you handouts in the real world. It's not our job to ensure you succeed. It is our job to put the tools in place so that, should you put the effort into it (including, unfortunately, the sacrifices that go with it) you can do it on your own.

We will if Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama gets elected. Mark my words. To take a page from Charlie Rangles book, we are going to make it hurt for the rich...

[Sioux-cia]

Look at this board, it is suppose to be discussing the Sioux name, instead it is a place to pick apart everything related to the Sioux people and show why those who oppose the name are wrong for doing so.

If you took the time to read the board who would note that there are several different threads related to the the Sioux name and to overlapping issues. This particular thread has to do with Means' withdrawal from the U. S.

Based on my experince living on two different reservations, I have to agree that reservations are not helpful to Native Americans. There is wide spread entitlement amongst reservation Indians. "I'm an enrolled member of .... you have to give me.... you owe me because I'm Indian...." I have dozens of examples of reservation Indians wanting something without giving anything in return. When you give something to someone over and over again and expect nothing from that person, the value of what you give them is ZERO. We have seen this in career welfare recipients. At least some states are now limiting the amount of time someone can stay on welfare, long enough to get on their feet, and then they are required to get a J O B if they want to continue to get supplemental welfare assistance.

What's done is done. The past is the past. It can't be changed. My opinion is to phase out reservations, phase out government programs, phase out tribal governments, etc. The land should remain in Indian hands but individuals should be allowed to own the land and what's on it. They should be responsible for it as well. Conditions on reservations is sad. There is no healthy reason to preserve reservations.

[MafiaMan]

On the upside...we'd get rid of Dickinson! (FINALLY! )

And Belfield!

[Fetch]

well said siouxcia

& sioux_xuois you are comparing apples & oranges & just don't get or want to hear the positive side of this.

Like most of the negative minority, of those that are against the Sioux name.

I dislike the posts about all thats wrong with reservations (but many show the negativity of what I think is a minority of people there) - Means just happened to bring this up at a time we are preparing to send a high profile delagation to the two reservations.

I really do think most would like to finally find ways to really Help or Change the enviroments on reservations - I'm hoping UND can be a part of this & Win the support of the majority on reservations - Not just appease the negative minority - Maybe there is hope the majority can find a way to tell the negatives to see the light or get out of the way

Are there any current studies on what is wrong & what could be done different, in turning reservations around ? The Federal Gov. does not seem to have any good solutions

I hope the State board really gives this their best effort............... & not just one last feeble attempt to ask the negatives to use their past name

If not - then I'm in the camp to move on (& yes I may be bitter the rest of my life) It seems more & more the Sioux we were proud of lived here over 100 yrs ago

[ScottM]

Here's another perspective on the reservation system.

Linky

[sioux7>5]

And Belfield!

But I Love the Trapper's Kettle. Can we at least leep that.

[redwing77]

I like how sioux_xuois thinks it is wrong for us to pick apart one side of an argument. Well, what are we supposed to do? Throw up our hands and say "Well, they're offended, that means we can't do anything but try to make them happy?"

Looks like you are the guy in the debate team that says "You are right, you win." when the debate opponent says his/her speech on some topic.

The only thing I know of when one side (for or against) gets rid of the opposition all you have is a totalitarian dictatorship. If you can't question, cross examine, and take a stance for or against without fear, then you live in a bad situation and need to investigate leaving.

Sure, people who are against the nickname face a rough time on this message board, but so do democrats who frequent the republican message boards (and vice versa).

Closed Circuit to SIoux-cia: The past is the past? Don't say that. If they don't have the past to cling onto, then they have to fend for themselves for the future. The past is a crutch. It enables the entitlement belief system. Anything that enables that will be a detriment to the NA society.

[Oxbow6]

Here's another perspective on the reservation system.

Linky

Stop...we don't want an unbiased NA's perspective on reservations to filter into this discussion

[Oxbow6]

But I Love the Trapper's Kettle. Can we at least leep that.

And Belfield's DQ makes the best chocolate covered strawberry blizzard anywhere or at least that side of the Little Missouri.

[darell1976]

And you wonder why the Sioux people don't want UND to use their name.........lol.

Before you go telling the only people in this country who have a legitimate claim on it to leave, you should do your homework there, darell. That mentality of yours is the main reason that the name will eventually change. Look at this board, it is suppose to be discussing the Sioux name, instead it is a place to pick apart everything related to the Sioux people and show why those who oppose the name are wrong for doing so.

So what if Means is a joke, that doesn't mean disbanding reservations. But I guess it makes you a big man talking smack about people who can not defend themselves.

And to read that only now you see that Lakota = friend? wow..........the next thing you realize is that the Sioux are really the Lakota, or Dakota, or Nakota, or that the map of the "Fighting Sioux" lands only slightly encompasses ND.....does that mean we need the approval of the other Sioux indians before we can use the logo?

I've been apart of the UND community for over 20 years now, and I would rather not post my opinion at all, but your ignorance has forced me to let you know that there is a rather large group of fans that would love to keep the name, but if it comes at the expense of hurting others, then change it and be done with it. As for your comments, they go both ways, love it or leave it. If you want I can even give you a ride to the border, either one.

Let me guess you were for the confederates as they didn't like US laws and wanted to seceed into a new nation.

[GoTAILS]

Lakota=Friend. I guess we could keep the logo as well eh?

You piss on everything Goon...go feed your dog!

[GoTAILS]

And Belfield's DQ makes the best chocolate covered strawberry blizzard anywhere or at least that side of the Little Missouri.

racist!

[GeauxSioux]

So if Standing Rock decides that they are a sovereign nation, will UND be able to keep the Sioux name, ala USD Aztecs?

Tribe official says council will consider treaty pullout

Avis Little Eagle says she understands the frustration that led Lakota activists to announce a plan to withdraw from the tribe