North Dakota Roughriders?

[Siouxman]

My criteria for a nickname:

1) Fighting Sioux, first and foremost.

If that is not possible, then:

2) native to North Dakota or the very immediate region

3) name not in use by ANY other team, high school, college, pro, amateur, etc.

4) symbol/emblem not in use by ANY other team, anywhere

5) If at all possible, continue with the Kelly Green theme (and the optional black uniforms for hockey)

6) does not involve ANY input from RHHT, Phil Jackson, Leah Jeannotte, or any other anti-Sioux nickname supporter

The name I still prefer involves Nokotas (Fighting, Wild, etc.) but I am open to other suggestions. Approval of the Nokota Horse Conservancy may be needed.

Roughriders or Rough Riders - NO

[dakota fairways]

Well by the same logic when applied to the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, various Tribal elders and the Tribal Chairman of SR didn't object to the nickname in 1969 and so we "should" have been safe, right? If we adopt "Roughriders" and use the approval of David Gipp, RHHIT and Phil Jackson's approval as some sense of security that there will be no problems with it in the future, we are ignoring what has happened already. Who are the next nut jobs a la David Gipp, RRHIT and Phil Jackson (this guy is a genuine freak show and I don't care what kind of success he's had in the NBA with all of that talent and I don't care that he grew up in Williston) going to be? Will the next generation of nut jobs remember the "approval" of David Gipp, RRHIT and Phil Jackson? These troglodytes do not even respect a sacred ceremony fully in line with Tribal traditions concerning the approval of the Sioux nickname. Does anyone think that the next generation of troglodytes is going to care what David Gipp, RRHIT and Phil Jackson thought about the "Roughriders" nickname? How long does anyone think it would take for the next batch to lay unsubstantiated anecdotal claims of that nickname being "hostile and abusive" and how long does anyone think it would take for the next batch to lay claims of Roughriders having fought and killed NA's in the early 20th Century, etc.? The Roughriders did actually do that. It would be about 15 years until the whole "Cowboy vs. Indian" thing would be so viewed. If "Roughriders" who fought and killed NA's in Western ND is ok, what's wrong with "Fighting Cavalry"? I like the latter one better. Hell, that should not even be perceived as "hostile and abusive" since the Cavalry got it's butt kicked at the Little Big Horn.

actually, the Rough Riders fought in Cuba, not western North Dakota. Some of the members of the Rough Riders were Native Americans, fighting alongside Roosevelt, not against him.

[Siouxman]

actually, the Rough Riders fought in Cuba, not western North Dakota. Some of the members of the Rough Riders were Native Americans, fighting alongside Roosevelt, not against him.

The Rough Riders were also known as "Wood's Weary Walkers"

[dmksioux]

My criteria for a nickname:

1) Fighting Sioux, first and foremost.

If that is not possible, then:

2) native to North Dakota or the very immediate region

3) name not in use by ANY other team, high school, college, pro, amateur, etc.

4) symbol/emblem not in use by ANY other team, anywhere

5) If at all possible, continue with the Kelly Green theme (and the optional black uniforms for hockey)

6) does not involve ANY input from RHHT, Phil Jackson, Leah Jeannotte, or any other anti-Sioux nickname supporter

The name I still prefer involves Nokotas (Fighting, Wild, etc.) but I am open to other suggestions. Approval of the Nokota Horse Conservancy may be needed.

Roughriders or Rough Riders - NO

I believe RHHiT also mentioned Nokota's as a possible replacement name. Not sure where I had read it or heard it, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned this one...

[fargosioux]

Cedar Rapids in the USHL is called the Rough Riders.

[Chewey]

actually, the Rough Riders fought in Cuba, not western North Dakota. Some of the members of the Rough Riders were Native Americans, fighting alongside Roosevelt, not against him.

Yes, i know that but the broader point is that it will get morphed into the whole "Cowboys vs. Indians" theme and, therefore, will be objectionable at some point. The condom machines in many sleazy truck stops have depictions of a cowboy on a bucking bronco and once the future RRHIT's and David Gipp's of the region see things like that, all hell's going to break loose with the "Roughrider" nickname and we'll hear claims of BRIDGES people being "bullied" at hockey games and there will obviously be years of sleepless nights.

[star2city]

Yes, i know that but the broader point is that it will get morphed into the whole "Cowboys vs. Indians" theme and, therefore, will be objectionable at some point. The condom machines in many sleazy truck stops have depictions of a cowboy on a bucking bronco and once the future RRHIT's and David Gipp's of the region see things like that, all hell's going to break loose with the "Roughrider" nickname and we'll hear claims of BRIDGES people being "bullied" at hockey games and there will obviously be years of sleepless nights.

Then Oklahoma State and Wyoming will be fighting with us. PC politics is close to it's Waterloo, with the Baby Boomers approaching retirement.

[greenwinger_13]

My criteria for a nickname:

1) Fighting Sioux, first and foremost.

If that is not possible, then:

2) native to North Dakota or the very immediate region

3) name not in use by ANY other team, high school, college, pro, amateur, etc.

4) symbol/emblem not in use by ANY other team, anywhere

5) If at all possible, continue with the Kelly Green theme (and the optional black uniforms for hockey)

6) does not involve ANY input from RHHT, Phil Jackson, Leah Jeannotte, or any other anti-Sioux nickname supporter

The name I still prefer involves Nokotas (Fighting, Wild, etc.) but I am open to other suggestions. Approval of the Nokota Horse Conservancy may be needed.

Roughriders or Rough Riders - NO

Amen, Roughriders is a horrible name.... HORRIBLE... were not in Medora... North Dakota isn't TR National Park.. taking the name of the local high school is also non-cool... Like I mentioned in a different thread. Roughriders is also way outdated.. whats wrong with a name that represents the times and is COOL... I travel as a salesman around ND.. and I can't think of the last time I saw a band of cowboys running along the side of the road on their horses... its insane to think this name would be ok. As if loosing the name that others and myself are obsessed with wasn't enough.. replacing it with something as bogus as this would equal, or possibly even top the pain that's already being felt...

[The Sicatoka]

whats wrong with a name that represents the times and is COOL...

Stay away from cool and trendy or you'll end up with (Jurassic Park in the theatres era) Raptors of the NBA.

And when the last time a Minuteman was seen strolling through Boston/Amherst or a Volunteer hiking through Knoxville? Seen many Tar Heels (nickname of NC Civil War unit) marching through Chapel Hill lately? Jayhawks is a Civil War term also.

[82SiouxGuy]

My criteria for a nickname:

1) Fighting Sioux, first and foremost.

If that is not possible, then:

2) native to North Dakota or the very immediate region

3) name not in use by ANY other team, high school, college, pro, amateur, etc.

4) symbol/emblem not in use by ANY other team, anywhere

5) If at all possible, continue with the Kelly Green theme (and the optional black uniforms for hockey)

6) does not involve ANY input from RHHT, Phil Jackson, Leah Jeannotte, or any other anti-Sioux nickname supporter

The name I still prefer involves Nokotas (Fighting, Wild, etc.) but I am open to other suggestions. Approval of the Nokota Horse Conservancy may be needed.

Roughriders or Rough Riders - NO

My criteria are very similar. The only real difference is that I would consider using a name that is used by someone else if it is in no way in competition or comparable to UND. For instance, a DIII school with limited sports in another part of the country, a high school in another part of the country or a low level minor league team in some sport. I would like to find something as unique as possible, but recognize that it may not be possible to find something that can be supported by a large group of people that is also totally unique. A logo that is unique to the school would be a requirement.

[greenwinger_13]

Stay away from cool and trendy or you'll end up with (Jurassic Park in the theatres era) Raptors of the NBA.

And when the last time a Minuteman was seen strolling through Boston/Amherst or a Volunteer hiking through Knoxville? Seen many Tar Heels (nickname of NC Civil War unit) marching through Chapel Hill lately? Jayhawks is a Civil War term also.

Good points but roughriders/calvary is NOT a good replacement name and i'll fight that til my death. I'm not saying we should be the Transformers or something incredibly stupid in that "trendy, cool" way.. just something new and unheard of that is cool.. which I think we can figure out.

[82SiouxGuy]

Amen, Roughriders is a horrible name.... HORRIBLE... were not in Medora... North Dakota isn't TR National Park.. taking the name of the local high school is also non-cool... Like I mentioned in a different thread. Roughriders is also way outdated.. whats wrong with a name that represents the times and is COOL... I travel as a salesman around ND.. and I can't think of the last time I saw a band of cowboys running along the side of the road on their horses... its insane to think this name would be ok. As if loosing the name that others and myself are obsessed with wasn't enough.. replacing it with something as bogus as this would equal, or possibly even top the pain that's already being felt...

Picking something that is hip and cool is usually a bad idea because it never stays hip and cool. It normally becomes outdated and laughable pretty quickly. All you have to do is look at trends in clothing or music. History or something solid is a normally a better choice if you want something to last long term. That's why a theme using settlers, farmers, ranchers, rivers, Old West or something similar works great. Aerospace, oil or energy and other similar current themes may work because they will have some longevity and aren't just a flavor of the month type thing.

[greenwinger_13]

Picking something that is hip and cool is usually a bad idea because it never stays hip and cool. It normally becomes outdated and laughable pretty quickly. All you have to do is look at trends in clothing or music. History or something solid is a normally a better choice if you want something to last long term. That's why a theme using settlers, farmers, ranchers, rivers, Old West or something similar works great. Aerospace, oil or energy and other similar current themes may work because they will have some longevity and aren't just a flavor of the month type thing.

I agree with your first few sentences... however... roughriders and calvary... negative

[Chewey]

Then Oklahoma State and Wyoming will be fighting with us. PC politics is close to it's Waterloo, with the Baby Boomers approaching retirement.

God, I hope you're right. That whole generation probably has about 400% more of a weirdo-factor than any other. Our Generation X is about 40% to 50% (I think) as big as that generation and they'll be bankrupting us soon. I say we help fortify social security and medicare by carving out certain groups from benefits. First and foremost among such groups would be tenured college professors. We may have played our Walkman at too high of a level or played Atari and Berserker until we gave ourselves carpal tunnel syndrome and "trigger finger" but at least we don't need a collective, generation-wide brain enema or transplant. The Baby Boomers may have rebelled against the WW II generation's conservatism but it looks like the shift is back the other way now. The Baby Boomer brain trust got important things like the collegiate nickname thing figured out but 13 trillion in national debt is no big worry. Thanks guys.

[82SiouxGuy]

I agree with your first few sentences... however... roughriders and calvary... negative

I've already said, multiple times, that I didn't think either of those would work. I just have different reasons. I would probably like Roughriders if Red River High School didn't have it. I just don't see a point in causing more nickname issues in the same city, and it would cause issues. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. A lot of people that support UND are also Red River supporters. There are people that would look at it as if UND were stealing the nickname from Red River. UND fans should realize the anger that can result from having a nickname taken. And I believe that Cavalry would be looked at as a back-handed swipe at Native Americans for losing the Fighting Sioux nickname. Again, don't cause more issues if you don't have to. Finding a unique nickname will greatly reduce that possibility.

[Ole in MSP]

Amen, Roughriders is a horrible name.... HORRIBLE... were not in Medora... North Dakota isn't TR National Park.. taking the name of the local high school is also non-cool... Like I mentioned in a different thread. Roughriders is also way outdated.. whats wrong with a name that represents the times and is COOL... I travel as a salesman around ND.. and I can't think of the last time I saw a band of cowboys running along the side of the road on their horses... its insane to think this name would be ok. As if loosing the name that others and myself are obsessed with wasn't enough.. replacing it with something as bogus as this would equal, or possibly even top the pain that's already being felt...

That's it, let's call them the Traveling Green Salesmen!

[greenwinger_13]

I've already said, multiple times, that I didn't think either of those would work. I just have different reasons. I would probably like Roughriders if Red River High School didn't have it. I just don't see a point in causing more nickname issues in the same city, and it would cause issues. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. A lot of people that support UND are also Red River supporters. There are people that would look at it as if UND were stealing the nickname from Red River. UND fans should realize the anger that can result from having a nickname taken. And I believe that Cavalry would be looked at as a back-handed swipe at Native Americans for losing the Fighting Sioux nickname. Again, don't cause more issues if you don't have to. Finding a unique nickname will greatly reduce that possibility.

I apologize for not recognizing that you had disagreed with those names also... very good points..

[greenwinger_13]

That's it, let's call them the Traveling Green Salesmen!

This is a good idea haha... what the heck could the logo be?

[Speez]

God, I hope you're right. That whole generation probably has about 400% more of a weirdo-factor than any other. Our Generation X is about 40% to 50% (I think) as big as that generation and they'll be bankrupting us soon. I say we help fortify social security and medicare by carving out certain groups from benefits. First and foremost among such groups would be tenured college professors. We may have played our Walkman at too high of a level or played Atari and Berserker until we gave ourselves carpal tunnel syndrome and "trigger finger" but at least we don't need a collective, generation-wide brain enema or transplant. The Baby Boomers may have rebelled against the WW II generation's conservatism but it looks like the shift is back the other way now. The Baby Boomer brain trust got important things like the collegiate nickname thing figured out but 13 trillion in national debt is no big worry. Thanks guys.

God, I hope your kidding & forgot the smiley's.

I think you may have forgotten the baby boomer brain thrust invented most of the things that moved this country ahead of the rest of the world.

We also invented all the toys you guys got to play with as we made this country better & made growing up for you a cushy deal.

Granted our liberalism was a rebellion of the WWII gen. but if you had to go through the the racism & bigotry we saw growing up, you would

understand why we rebelled to make this a better country to live in. The PC cr@p going on has more to do with the X'ers getting carried away with not wanting to offend anyone,

We may have been liberals when we were younger, but now we are probably more conservative than you would believe.

God, we have to save this country again by voting some sanity back into government.

I believe our current "leader" doesn't belong to the baby boomer gen but is one of tenured college professors you deride.

"We" can't believe what has happened in the last few years that catapulted the deficit into the trillions, but we are trying to get the right leadership

back in to straighten things out. I think things are already changing.

I sure as h*ll don't want my great-great grandkids to have to deal with it.

We'll get it fixed before we're gone.

Sorry for the political rant Mods, but I couldn't let this slide by.

[RD17]

Stay away from cool and trendy or you'll end up with (Jurassic Park in the theatres era) Raptors of the NBA.

And when the last time a Minuteman was seen strolling through Boston/Amherst or a Volunteer hiking through Knoxville? Seen many Tar Heels (nickname of NC Civil War unit) marching through Chapel Hill lately? Jayhawks is a Civil War term also.

Exactly. Trendy and cool is what you name your intramural team or an expansion USHL team, not a flagship state university. Fortunately, Roughriders is out there for UND and too logical of an option to pass up.

[Siouxman]

Exactly. Trendy and cool is what you name your intramural team or an expansion USHL team, not a flagship state university. Fortunately, Roughriders is out there for UND and too logical of an option to pass up.

I wonder if Fighting Sioux was ever described as logical.

[RD17]

I wonder if Fighting Sioux was ever described as logical.

As I've mentioned in other threads, at any point in the last 5 years the Standing Rock Tribal Council could have taken the time it's taking me to write this post to give UND permission and we wouldn't be in this situation.

So, at this point we have a choice. We can either be bitter and angry and obsess over why UND isn't going to be the Fighting Sioux anymore. Or we can use that energy to do something positive and have an influence on a new nickname. Since the former is a waste of my time, I'm going to choose the latter.

[jimdahl]

Exactly. Trendy and cool is what you name your intramural team or an expansion USHL team, not a flagship state university. Fortunately, Roughriders is out there for UND and too logical of an option to pass up.

Yep. I think cool would be a mistake, in that cool inherently has a limited time window -- if we'd dropped the name in the 80s, we'd be M.C. Dakota, etc... Roughriders has a few advantages over any other alternatives I've heard proposed. It's unique, it invokes an association N.D. wants (T. Roosevelt), it's human instead of a weather phenomenon, and it's tied to the state which makes an awesome flagship University tie-in. That a local high school has the same nickname is such a non-issue to anyone not affiliated with the high school that I give it pretty much no weight.

[Siouxman]

As I've mentioned in other threads, at any point in the last 5 years the Standing Rock Tribal Council could have taken the time it's taking me to write this post to give UND permission and we wouldn't be in this situation.

So, at this point we have a choice. We can either be bitter and angry and obsess over why UND isn't going to be the Fighting Sioux anymore. Or we can use that energy to do something positive and have an influence on a new nickname. Since the former is a waste of my time, I'm going to choose the latter.

Sorry if my comment was misunderstood. I was not being bitter about losing the Sioux name. I was trying to be a little tongue-in-cheek that RoughRiders or Rough Riders was a good choice because it is the logical choice. I think that we can do better with a new name. I don't quite see it as a logical choice and I was being a little sarcastic wondering if anyone ever thought Fighting Sioux was "logical choice" when it was selected.

[Oxbow6]

Yep. I think cool would be a mistake, in that cool inherently has a limited time window -- if we'd dropped the name in the 80s, we'd be M.C. Dakota, etc... Roughriders has a few advantages over any other alternatives I've heard proposed. It's unique, it invokes an association N.D. wants (T. Roosevelt), it's human instead of a weather phenomenon, and it's tied to the state which makes an awesome flagship University tie-in. That a local high school has the same nickname is such a non-issue to anyone not affiliated with the high school that I give it pretty much no weight.

Enough said...sold!

To me Roughriders is what one would call "low hanging fruit". Just pick it! (And not like your chubby buddy did his nose in 3rd grade) But believe me, this new nickname process will be sooooooooo mishandled and overthought that it will be mind numbing before it's all said and done!!